Marketplace Mafia III - Game Over

[Lost Butterfly]

JUST. STOP. INTERACTING. WITH. HER. FARADAY.

Frankly, I'm finding it annoying to have every sentence be twisted to be in bad faith, too, and I've literally spent the past half-hour starting posts in response to particularly egregious misrepresentations that I force myself to delete, but that doesn't mean personal attacks are called for. Moreover, THIS IS A COMPLETE FUCKING DISTRACTION THAT DOESN'T HELP FIND SCUM.

[Pyrotechnics]

actually I kind of liked his response to empire's vote.

How do you think it differs from Lord Mhork's reaction to you? And to what extent do you think the difference is due to follow-up vs vote?

I don't understand the last bit? I think the difference comes in the directness of voided and the way he meets empire (a stronger player) head on. mhork just kind of beats around the bush, presses questions, treats me as town and then is like "i'm not scum, this is a mislynch". do you think i'm not being objective because he's voting me or something, because whle it's possible I don't think it's what's happening here.

Okay, that doesn';t actually say that, or imply that so I can only conclude you have a dirty computer screen that can't let you read my posts.

You are voting for mhork are you not? You do like voided's response to empire ( a strong player) do you not? You think that mhorks response to you (a strong player) is not as good as voided's do you not?

My problem is that voided is a strong player so I would expect something strong from him, while mhork isn't as strong so the comparison without acknowledging player differences feels off to me. And I can't remember a time when town you went after a weaker player for displaying weaker player tendencies.

[uʍop ǝpısdn]

FTR I think the Lost Butterfly wagon is bad and the people on it should feel bad.

duh

[Garuda]

Fully caught up. I was thinking of writing one of my trademark mastubatory reads list walls that no one aside from boring nerds like Tammy will read but I don't have the mental stamina to do that right now. So instead you'll get a boring town list with no explanations. Might do a wall later after Nacho and I have touched base on reads and we get some consolidation going.

TOWN:
1baldeagle1
Pyrotechnics
Lost Butterfly
---
zMuffinMan
upside down - need Nacho's input here, though, since I don't trust myself to read N

[morph the cat]

FTR I think the Lost Butterfly wagon is bad and the people on it should feel bad.

duh

Is your plan for this game to look busy by taking occasional pot shots at me, and declare at random that nacho is scum?

[Garuda]

3) The last game was won by forming a public town bloc and having suspicious people / non-townreads transfer their money over to the townies. Magua mentioned after the last game and IIRC in the dead QT that he was going to make sure this did not happen in the next installment. The signups thread also talks about making transferring less efficient. I combed the Rules with a comb and noticed something in the Mafia role PM – take a look at where it says “Wire Fraud” under the section called “Dirty Tricks”. The mafia have an ability where they must choose a transferor and a transferee. I’m guessing that this is the mechanic Magua was referring to and that this probably means the mafia have some way of fucking with publicly announced transfers of money. I’m still trying to figure out some way around this as I think this game has similar potential to be broken. One of the ideas I’ve been kicking around is to have a publicly announced town bloc but without announcing any transferors (in other words, the mafia won’t get to know where the money comes from). It’s not foolproof but at least it leaves mafia guessing. We could also do this the old fashioned way (and I’m guessing this is the way Magua wants us to do it if at all) by not having any announced town bloc and just privately transferring money to townreads. Open to suggestions here.

^Tammy would like to see your response to this + any other suggestions you might have, thanks in advance.

[uʍop ǝpısdn]

FTR I think the Lost Butterfly wagon is bad and the people on it should feel bad.

duh

Is your plan for this game to look busy by taking occasional pot shots at me, and declare at random that nacho is scum?

It worked in Perpetual MyLo!

(actually, that one was not a potshot at you, I was agreeing with you)

[uʍop ǝpısdn]

I don't trust myself to read N

historically, it's been the opposite of what you think

[uʍop ǝpısdn]

FTR I think the Lost Butterfly wagon is bad and the people on it should feel bad.

duh

Is your plan for this game to look busy by taking occasional pot shots at me, and declare at random that nacho is scum?

It worked in Perpetual MyLo!

(actually, that one was not a potshot at you, I was agreeing with you)

I actually feel kind of outraged that you think I've only been taking potshots at you. Please read all posts, not just those that are directed at you/have your name in them.

[Lost Butterfly]

I'm going to bed, but quick strategy thoughts:

1) What do people think about a mass-advertisement claim (which we use to find out how much money is on each ability), and then a coordinated advertisement campaign? I originally wanted just to claim

what

we'd bid on, so scum wouldn't know how to stop it, but maybe each town can pledge to pay a certain amount so that abilities aren't lost. The obvious caveat is that scum know by how much to outbid us, though. But something like, "These two players are responsible for advertising however much they want on these three abilities, these players for advertising these ones," etc. Is that more trouble than it's worth?

2)

*pokes Tammy with a stick*

To be honest, I'm sick of Neighbourizers right now. What's the obsession with them being so dangerous? I actually think it's a protown power in this set-up (although it becomes strongly proscum in really specific instances). You can transfer money with a town read, plan gambits, claim role information, buy abilities, etc. Meanwhile, if scum have neighbourizer, then there's nothing we can do about it to stop them communicating with the other team. It's not something like Investigation Immune that we can plan around. Garuda's plan of having the neighboree claim D2 is a good compromise, but that doesn't stop scum from just using the second shot to neighbourize a partner.

3) @Empire: I was thinking "This is a list of townies and this is a list of not-townies. These not-townies must send money to the townies every night, but don't claim which one. Afterwards, if the townies a certain not-townie claims to have sent money to keep winding up dead, not-townie starts looking fishy." I'm not sure if that's the same as your plan, or if the not-townies are a crucial new element.

The next couple of days will be mostly Mina posting, so expect shittier reads and fewer votes!

[morph the cat]

FTR I think the Lost Butterfly wagon is bad and the people on it should feel bad.

duh

Is your plan for this game to look busy by taking occasional pot shots at me, and declare at random that nacho is scum?

It worked in Perpetual MyLo!

(actually, that one was not a potshot at you, I was agreeing with you)

I actually feel kind of outraged that you think I've only been taking potshots at you. Please read all posts, not just those that are directed at you/have your name in them.

I was being ever so slightly hyperbolic.

[morph the cat]

I'm going to bed, but quick strategy thoughts:

1) What do people think about a mass-advertisement claim (which we use to find out how much money is on each ability), and then a coordinated advertisement campaign? I originally wanted just to claim

what

we'd bid on, so scum wouldn't know how to stop it, but maybe each town can pledge to pay a certain amount so that abilities aren't lost. The obvious caveat is that scum know by how much to outbid us, though. But something like, "These two players are responsible for advertising however much they want on these three abilities, these players for advertising these ones," etc. Is that more trouble than it's worth?

2)

*pokes Tammy with a stick*

To be honest, I'm sick of Neighbourizers right now. What's the obsession with them being so dangerous? I actually think it's a protown power in this set-up (although it becomes strongly proscum in really specific instances). You can transfer money with a town read, plan gambits, claim role information, buy abilities, etc. Meanwhile, if scum have neighbourizer, then there's nothing we can do about it to stop them communicating with the other team. It's not something like Investigation Immune that we can plan around. Garuda's plan of having the neighboree claim D2 is a good compromise, but that doesn't stop scum from just using the second shot to neighbourize a partner.

3) @Empire: I was thinking "This is a list of townies and this is a list of not-townies. These not-townies must send money to the townies every night, but don't claim which one. Afterwards, if the townies a certain not-townie claims to have sent money to keep winding up dead, not-townie starts looking fishy." I'm not sure if that's the same as your plan, or if the not-townies are a crucial new element.

The next couple of days will be mostly Mina posting, so expect shittier reads and fewer votes!

If we can tailor the information so that it doesn't work more to scum advantage than to town, I think it's a good idea. Given the interim results from N0 it's doubtful town players making decisions in a vacuum led to optimal results.

[Pyrotechnics]

I'm going to bed, but quick strategy thoughts:

1) What do people think about a mass-advertisement claim (which we use to find out how much money is on each ability), and then a coordinated advertisement campaign? I originally wanted just to claim

what

we'd bid on, so scum wouldn't know how to stop it, but maybe each town can pledge to pay a certain amount so that abilities aren't lost. The obvious caveat is that scum know by how much to outbid us, though. But something like, "These two players are responsible for advertising however much they want on these three abilities, these players for advertising these ones," etc. Is that more trouble than it's worth?

2)

*pokes Tammy with a stick*

To be honest, I'm sick of Neighbourizers right now. What's the obsession with them being so dangerous? I actually think it's a protown power in this set-up (although it becomes strongly proscum in really specific instances). You can transfer money with a town read, plan gambits, claim role information, buy abilities, etc. Meanwhile, if scum have neighbourizer, then there's nothing we can do about it to stop them communicating with the other team. It's not something like Investigation Immune that we can plan around. Garuda's plan of having the neighboree claim D2 is a good compromise, but that doesn't stop scum from just using the second shot to neighbourize a partner.

3) @Empire: I was thinking "This is a list of townies and this is a list of not-townies. These not-townies must send money to the townies every night, but don't claim which one. Afterwards, if the townies a certain not-townie claims to have sent money to keep winding up dead, not-townie starts looking fishy." I'm not sure if that's the same as your plan, or if the not-townies are a crucial new element.

The next couple of days will be mostly Mina posting, so expect shittier reads and fewer votes!

Why couldn't this have been the posts earlier and not trolling with abandon?

The advertising campaign is something we did last game and worked out well.

The neighborizer can be really protown and I never suggested it couldn't. I mentioned that I had won neighborizer last game, that town had won it both times it was up for auction and used it effectively. For instance, Mehdi won neighborizer and made it public that he was neighborizing me night one. Because we were both strong town reads we all knew the neighborizer was in town hands. Once in the neighborhood, he transferred all of his money to me, and we had several other people transferring money to me, such that when neighborizer came up again, after the scum who had won the cop role had found one of the other team with it, we won it again because they didn't realize that I had as much money as I had. We made schedules for who would bid on what. Everything was really transparent and it worked really really well. (And for instance we *did* plan town gambits in the neighborhood, once mehdi and I were the ones in control of the neighborhood and everyone had a town read on us for the most part who was in the neighborhood wasn't even a thing beyond the two of us because people trusted us. We were able to through the neighborhood recoordinate the bids that we had publicly claimed to have. So for instance, I was put on the schedule to get the night kill, but Mattye really took it so that scum wouldn't know some things, but we had that because we had trust because we had transparency and people willing to work together in that game, which unfortunately doesn't look like we actually have here, so whatever.)

And we can plan around neighborizer and I can't see why you can't see that. We can evaluate who has it and we can suggest nominations for who gets neighborized.

[Pyrotechnics]

(actually I think I was neighborized night two because he neighborized empire night one and they died partly because of a total lack of transparency (voided was a doc who tried to protect them but mattye were roleblockers who were suspicious of voided and blocked him) so, the nights don't matter as the benefit of the neighborhood was the same.

[Pyrotechnics]

3) The last game was won by forming a public town bloc and having suspicious people / non-townreads transfer their money over to the townies. Magua mentioned after the last game and IIRC in the dead QT that he was going to make sure this did not happen in the next installment. The signups thread also talks about making transferring less efficient. I combed the Rules with a comb and noticed something in the Mafia role PM – take a look at where it says “Wire Fraud” under the section called “Dirty Tricks”. The mafia have an ability where they must choose a transferor and a transferee. I’m guessing that this is the mechanic Magua was referring to and that this probably means the mafia have some way of fucking with publicly announced transfers of money. I’m still trying to figure out some way around this as I think this game has similar potential to be broken. One of the ideas I’ve been kicking around is to have a publicly announced town bloc but without announcing any transferors (in other words, the mafia won’t get to know where the money comes from). It’s not foolproof but at least it leaves mafia guessing. We could also do this the old fashioned way (and I’m guessing this is the way Magua wants us to do it if at all) by not having any announced town bloc and just privately transferring money to townreads. Open to suggestions here.

^Tammy would like to see your response to this + any other suggestions you might have, thanks in advance.

This is a good part of why we won the last game. We had a strong town block and scum were pretty accurately identified by mid day one (or at least we didn't have any scum in our town block, so we weren't transferring any extra money to scum).

Transferring is less efficient as I think that transferred amount was 90% last game whereas it's 80% this game. The transferring of that much money allowed us to gain control of the nightkill more than one night as well as the neighborizer.

The transferring of money also helped us to have more faith in the early suspicious individuals as if they didn't transfer their money to us, they would be regarded as more suspect.

One thing we had last game that we don't have this game is investing. I can't remember how much money we could make on investing, but I know I spent a couple nights investing money and getting money transferred to me and ended up with quite a bit of money that I could outbid even the pooled mafia. But we don't have investing anymore. Regardless, we were really transparent about most things last game and it worked really well.

HOWEVER, last game we had a group of people who were willing to work together and unfortunately I just don't have high hopes for that happening in this game. I guess that will be less of a pessimistic outlook if the majority of scum have been posting tonight and the remainder of town can come together starting tomorrow, but I doubt we can be that lucky.

Anyway, it's late and I need to go to sleep. Talk tomorrow.

[uʍop ǝpısdn]

9 pages already, guys go fuck your selves seriously. ill see you day 2 thanks.

Omg this.

-- Quil

[Pyrotechnics]

Okay so I just read through the advertising stuff and we can't advertise for an ability to show up again until all things have been moved out of the not yet auctioned column (if Im reading this wrong, let me know.) Which means that cop or neighborizer can't be auctioned again until probably night three or four. I still maintain that neighborizer should not be advertised again.

Also, the person who's neighbored day two doesn't solve the OMG scum might kill the neighborizer, which why would they especially if they think they have a chance of getting neighborized. They could easily neighborize someone night one and get that town cred and then kill the neighborizer night two or the neighbor night two and neighborize scum night two if they find scum night one with the cop.

I don't know I just think we have the opportunity to direct a town power if it's in town's hands and minimalize the damage it if it's in scum's hands. But my clinical retadation is probably keeping me from thinking clearly.

[Zdenek]

I have both the investigation immunity and the hitman abilities, bitches.

[Zdenek]

Also, I think everyone should claim if they advertised or what they advertised on. Not the actual amount.

medium

[Zdenek]

baldeagle is town-telling a lot early in the game. I'd be shocked if it was all fake.

[Zdenek]

Lord Mhork is scum.

Vote: Lord Mhork

[Zdenek]

voided is scum

maybe

[Zdenek]

Voided's town read on Lost Butterfly on account of baldeagle's attacks makes no sense. It's probably a contrived justification for a read.

[1baldeagle1]

Yeah, not alignment irrelevant when you say one thing, but don't entirely believe it yourself. Fake is as fake does.

What?

Baldeagle: Harps multiple times about people screwing up tags. He even uses it as a scum-indicator. Says specifically to use the preview feature to avoid such nonsense. Then fails to use said preview feature and screws up tags in his own post. This tells me he doesn't actually believe (at least to the degree he is blowing it up to) what he was posting. It reads fake.

Oh dear, sorry for quoting something with a broken quote tag in it!

What if it's the RIGHT thing to do? And you're LEFT with no other option?

wink wink nudge nudge

Umm....

9 pages already, guys go fuck your selves seriously. ill see you day 2 thanks.

Do something please.

hey do you guys wanna lynch lord mhork with me i promise to vote ur top read tomorrow and am not lying

No. You are getting lynched today.

hey do you guys wanna lynch lord mhork with me i promise to vote ur top read tomorrow and am not lying

Maaaybe.

I don't like that Voided disappeared after I put that whole huge scary vote on him.

Lurking isn't a scumtell.

Okay, fuck it.

I wanted to wait until tomorrow morning when everyone had checked in, but since I realized I made a mistake in the plan (it's completely my fault and not Faraday's, since he was away when the thread opened), there's no upside to continuing this.

I retract the investigative immune claim.

So, if you didn't win this, then what did you win?

Hana and Nat are not people known for flaking, FaraMina.

P-EDIT: I very firmly believe that Mina wouldn't do something like that as scum (with the caveat that her side didn't get Cop). What sounds like Faraday's annoyed reaction at revealing all that also reads as town to me. LB is solidly town.

I agree with upside down's 372 in regards to Muffinman.

actually I kind of liked his response to empire's vote.

Mine?

P-EDIT: And...why?

I have both the investigation immunity and the hitman abilities, bitches.

Oh. He COULD be town, since the winning bids add up less than $100 by alot.

Lord Mhork is scum.

Vote: Lord Mhork

I agree. Mhork's view on LB seemed forced.

Phew, just read 12 fucking pages.

Pyro, morph, and upside down are town. I kinda like guarda's opening posts.

Scum is LB, Mhork. I have a null read on Voided. I probably need to ISO.

[1baldeagle1]

Oh, forgot to respond to Voided's 384 when making that post.

In Voided's 384, please explain why LB is town.