A uPick of Ice & Fire - Day 12 - #REKT?

[Messiah Complex]

But no one's really biting on Naut because they're town and your case (correct me if I'm wrong, but Naut is scum because Nacho isn't hunting scum) is weak/borderline irrational.

- Des

[Eddard Stark]

Day 3, Vc 12

SpyreX (6) -

Tammy, ooba, Zdenek, elleheathen, Messiah Complex, Nautilius

AGar (5) -

Goat on a Raft, Benmage, Garruk Relentless, The Alchemist, Alfred Borden

Nautilius (1) -

quadz08

ooba (1) -

PrideandJoy

Zdenek (3) -

kanyeknowsbest, StupendousMan, Shadoweh

quadz08 (1) -

Tierce

elleheathen (1) -

Goat on a Raft

Not voting (4)

:Cephrir, SpyreX, SafetyDance, AGar

With 21 alive it takes 11 votes to lynch

• Deadline Date: 25th of October at 16:05 EDT
  
• Deadline Countdown: (expired on 2013-10-25 04:30:01)
  
• --

[quadz08]

But no one's really biting on Naut because they're town and your case (correct me if I'm wrong, but Naut is scum because Nacho isn't hunting scum) is weak/borderline irrational.

- Des

*shrug* if people disagree then people disagree, and I'll move elsewhere when I'm satisfied that my case isn't going to pick up any steam / it becomes otherwise prudent to do so.

I'm also waiting for a response from Naut to my last question to them.

[Alfred Borden]

I wouldn't brag when the only lynches we have had have been mislynches.

I'm not proud, but Safetydance is peddling stupidity and needed a good mocking.

Elle read has mostly been me (Marble). She just has a lot of "gee, this is impressive if she's scum" posts.

[Cephrir]

So messiah, have you actually made an argument yet that doesn't boil down to "because I said so"? Seeing as you basically admit to having no argument in 2523.

[Messiah Complex]

So messiah, have you actually made an argument yet that doesn't boil down to "because I said so"? Seeing as you basically admit to having no argument in 2523.

Incredible misrep. Is there a reason you didn't quote my 2523 so that everyone would have been able to see it for themselves?

My argument has been clear from the beginning--Spyrex's hammer is oozing in scum motivation and doesn't make any sense from a town-Spyrex perspective given what he's said about his role and hammers. He could have accomplished the same thing (hammering someone) while also waiting for Amrun to provide content and he didn't. The protown move was right there in front of him and he went another way.

No one has satisfactorily argued against this and told me why townSpyrex who needs to hammer people to get his ability going handled the situation the way he did.

- Des

[Cephrir]

Yes it's bc I'm on a phone right now, I'll deal with you later

[Messiah Complex]

I only made that point in response to Spyrex's gross attempt to defeat my argument by self-metaing. In any case, it wasn't specific to this game--Spyrex quickhammers as town so that he can quickhammer as scum and get away with it. Unless there's a hidden benefit to derpass troll hammers that I'm missing?

I'll help you out then. Cephrir's thinks this is me "basically admitting" I have no argument. He says this in reference to my read on Spyrex as a whole, then AGar was clearly critiquing a remote portion of the case that only appeared because Spyrex tried to self-meta his way out of my accusations.

I look forward to your thoughts on why townSpy did what he did how he did it.

- Des

[Nautilius]

Spyrex claims to have a role that interacts with hammers

This was weird. I don't think SpyreX needs HAMMER POWER as an excuse to quickhammer, and his predecessors crumbed nothing of the sort.

Did you say you weren't done somewhere?

Reading and typing things out are very different things.

Your argument here hinges on "SpyreX spent 4+ years quickhammering just so he could troll one game in 2013."

You do realize that, right?

If you do something as town, you can do it as scum.

slightly town.

Slightly town?

Fuck off.

It was

I don't really think Spyrex is scum either.

Agar maybe. I am not sure what to do

Get into the game or start sheeping? That would be my recommendation.

[Messiah Complex]

More importantly though: I have role-reasons for wanting that hammer. I also want this one.

What does that mean to you then?

- Des

[Nautilius]

I'm saying I think the claim is suspicious.

[Nautilius]

um, nothing of import has happened in the game. There is a run up, that is it. No one has pinged me. oh, and what I do, I do well. I don't suck but I don't play the way you do. Learn from it or not. I don't engage in pretend reasons and blah blah blah meta. If I make a meta comment and take time to do it, it is worth attending to. I have nothing right now. 5 pages in on day one and blah blah blah.

My experience with Peacebringer is that he always finds something to pick up on, so the fact he didn't find anything here is strange.

I was not shaking my head at Pride and Joy but rather the whole PnJ run up on a joke. Lack of humor and lack of tolerance for shtick. Just a bunch of knee jerk votes. The end part was just pointing out you had past exposure to my play.

Notice no reads, still.

???

i voted him cus it was a bad post and i wanted to start gathering some reactions and get shit rolling. i poked you because your vote was bad and i wanted a reaction. i now have a multitude of townreads stemming from the former and a townread on you from the latter. dwi

I am calling you a hyprocrite. You engaged in the same kind of behavior I actually just engaged in... you are the one that said his 1st post pissed you off, now you are calling it reaction fishing...make up your mind...

First attack, doesn't vote. I don't find that Peace is particularly stingy with his vote, ever.

vote KKB

Finally moves, and the vote is pretty useless. He doesn't push like I'd expect him to, he just kinda sits on an easy target (you make yourself look that way because of posting style, kanye) and then later moves to a different one. Replace out was weird for the reasons ooba noted.

lots of players seem town but I have a big weakness in giving rhetorically skilled players town reads too often so Im being more cautious
I also think lots of players are using overly ornate language to justify townreads that really arent that solid

I didn't like this.

More importantly though: I have role-reasons for wanting that hammer. I also want this one.

Neither of his predecessors so much as hinted at this, which I find suspicious. Hammer powers are something that gets crumbed an obnoxious amount, and when town usually results in you asking for the hammer. As scum, you usually get it in sneaky ways like this.

@Nacho et all:

What needs to happen to make my wish come true of the first group lynching the second group. HELP ME HELP YOU.

I don't like that a majority of his time has been invested in defending himself versus burning the bad people. It's easy as scum to defend yourself from people going after you because of a quickhammer because reasonable people will see the bad arguments against you and they will feel you're town because you're generally stomp-thwomping the arguments around you, and inviting the bad attacks is a fine investment because you can get the more influential voices on your side. What I want to see is his thought processes on other people developing and I don't see anything of the sort in his play so far which sucks because Elli and I wanted Spy Spy to be town.

[Nautilius]

Sheeping Elli on ActionChessDanKid. I like the thing about the senior thesis tho.

Quadz: I like quadz! Before I ISO him, I mostly like the push on me. It feels like he got conviction, one of his reasons is something that makes sense from what town-quadz doesn't like (the whole "worried about his image thing, maybe lack of scumreads?), and I can't really see many worlds where quadz sits down stubbornly on a one-man me wagon as scum despite a few people telling him to cut that shit out. It feels like he's not budging until he gets what he wants, which is really cool and stuff. I liked his opening a lot for meta reasons (mainly him seeming comfortable as fuck), although I was uncomfortable when he fell off the map a little bit somewhere in the middle.

[Nautilius]

Ok, so here's about the fullest meta report I can do in the limited time I have left (and considering Safety tends to flake a lot as both alignments):

TOWN: The Wire Season 1, Lord of the Rings Mafia
SCUM: Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone, Open 502
(You can also add the Hidden Temple game here if you wish, I didn't put it on because mollie's already mentioned the salient points.)

As you can see from combing through the games, Safety does get into self-defense mode a lot (#468 from The Wire -- "I come back and find I have to defend myself against a vote and post I made eight hours into the game. Sorry if I'm a little distracted?" -- I think sums it up pretty well). I do think, though, that there's a huge difference in the way he reacts as town vs. the way he reacts as scum. As town, he tends to get a lot more emotional in his language and I get the sense that he takes consensus suspicion very personally (which I consider a towntell generally, but especially so in his case). There's also way more nuance to his defenses as town, as he's able to break down his actions in massive detail. As scum, I get the impression that he struggles to come up with things to say and he gets very dismissive/handwavy with accusations but there's no actual substance or emotion behind it.

Take a look at what he's doing here: the cynical "go fuck yourselves, I'll be around to say I told you so in the post game" reaction and the emotion behind it fits in strongly with how he reacts as town. There's no awkward filter in place here and it feels like he's just speaking from the heart w.r.t. how he feels about the game. There's a sort of undercurrent beneath all of his posts where you can get the impression that he's taking his wagon and the suspicion against him incredibly personally. Also take a look at #1646 --

the fact that he went out of his way to go and look into one of his own past games in some detail to refute a meta-based argument brought against him is actually a pretty big towntell and way above what I'd expect from him as scum.

So hopefully, you can all see where I'm coming from on this. I'm going to bed now and while I think I'll be around at deadline, I can't guarantee it. So peace and let's hope for a D1 scum lynch here.

P-edit: Ceph, read what I just wrote.

This is pretty much the reason I find SD town.

[elleheathen]

No, Elleheathen is still probably town.

Why? I really am interested in seeing if you see what I see as missing from her town game.

Me too.
Since he's answered, what is it you see that's missing from my town game

that isn't in my scum game

?

*passes through with a Spyrex For Scum picket sign*

Hey, this isn't doing jack shit for anyone. If you actually want to help me get him lynched you should start putting in the same kind of time you did pussy footing around with Thor D1.

Yeah, I hear ya.

But do you actually think my 'pussy footing around with Thor D1' did 'jack shit for anyone' either, when a good portion of the group here admitted to not only ignoring what was in it but not even reading it? A theme that seemed to be carried into Day 2 since most of my questions went unanswered and my arguments about Zdenek and kanye ignored.

So yeah, admittedly - I've become disengaged.

So why is it more questionable that despite the fact that I've already said

why

I feel like he should be lynched and

why

I'm on the wagon than those that haven't?

You seem to dislike my comment on the procrastination going on in reference to all those that haven't taken a stand and are just sitting back prod dodging as time ticks by so that we're put into yet another loldeadline situation. We have 4 people that aren't even voting and another 4 on solo votes - a good majority of those that aren't doing crap all. Yet

I'm

the one not helping you?

Welp. It is what is it, then.

[Nautilius]

Man this sucks. Tierce, you picked a badass woomens like Tyene Sand or something, right?

I actually liked the Tammy/Tierce reachouts early with the marriage power, and I liked the attempt to marry Empire.

Garruk, that elle wagon is gonna fall apart. Come play on quadz where it's warm and he's stopped posting.
It looks like it's slowed down now that the initial rush of spam posting is over. Maybe just 25 pages!

This is a hell of a lot lighter than Shadoweh-scum posting in Wingate.

Also I don't feel the need to clarify my role any further. I wouldn't marry you even if I could, it would be like living with a religious conservative.

The flippant tone wrt most things is not hard to love.

Look dood, apparently I'm the only person on this page that doesn't hate you, so you should listen to what I'm saying. The part where you're not claiming flavor or what your joat abilities are isn't going to change anyone's minds. Your powers don't get shown when you flip, so even if you're town and you get lynched, we really need to know what you've got. I don't think it looks townie when a person in a no-flips game is trying hard to avoid saying what his role does. :/

I liked this reach out a lot.

Why don't you trust Desp? mislynch seeking wise, I don't think 'i got a rabbit' would make me care enough to stop pushing someone.

I thought this was an excellent point.

It doesn't help that by now I just assume I should have a healthy town-read on the Nacho half of you, but I don't feel like you're going anywhere. Normally you're just more driven. A leader. You feel like you're hanging back and it makes me edge slowly away from your posts hoping you won't notice me. Even posting my suspicion of you makes me feel like I need witness protection.

I also like this.
Although it reminds me of how much Shadoweh shat on me and mollie and that makes me sad

Why couldn't he have been town faking to replace out?

I don't think anyone would ever assume that or ask that question.

[Nautilius]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
this is what I leave for you all wrt stupendous

[Nautilius]

Syryana was town but I don't think that matters much.
Tierce/Tammy are very strong scumreads.

[Nautilius]

Alchemist hasn't done shit but he's probably scum.

[kanyeknowsbest]

i agree w. literally most of what ur saying right now nnautichan

[Nautilius]

it's time to talk about peacebringer?

[kanyeknowsbest]

sure.i saw ur pb post and i thought some abt it so gimme a sec

[kanyeknowsbest]

um, nothing of import has happened in the game. There is a run up, that is it. No one has pinged me. oh, and what I do, I do well. I don't suck but I don't play the way you do. Learn from it or not. I don't engage in pretend reasons and blah blah blah meta. If I make a meta comment and take time to do it, it is worth attending to. I have nothing right now. 5 pages in on day one and blah blah blah.

My experience with Peacebringer is that he always finds something to pick up on, so the fact he didn't find anything here is strange.

I was not shaking my head at Pride and Joy but rather the whole PnJ run up on a joke. Lack of humor and lack of tolerance for shtick. Just a bunch of knee jerk votes. The end part was just pointing out you had past exposure to my play.

Notice no reads, still.

???

i voted him cus it was a bad post and i wanted to start gathering some reactions and get shit rolling. i poked you because your vote was bad and i wanted a reaction. i now have a multitude of townreads stemming from the former and a townread on you from the latter. dwi

I am calling you a hyprocrite. You engaged in the same kind of behavior I actually just engaged in... you are the one that said his 1st post pissed you off, now you are calling it reaction fishing...make up your mind...

First attack, doesn't vote. I don't find that Peace is particularly stingy with his vote, ever.

vote KKB

Finally moves, and the vote is pretty useless. He doesn't push like I'd expect him to, he just kinda sits on an easy target (you make yourself look that way because of posting style, kanye) and then later moves to a different one. Replace out was weird for the reasons ooba noted.

lots of players seem town but I have a big weakness in giving rhetorically skilled players town reads too often so Im being more cautious
I also think lots of players are using overly ornate language to justify townreads that really arent that solid

I didn't like this.

More importantly though: I have role-reasons for wanting that hammer. I also want this one.

Neither of his predecessors so much as hinted at this, which I find suspicious. Hammer powers are something that gets crumbed an obnoxious amount, and when town usually results in you asking for the hammer. As scum, you usually get it in sneaky ways like this.

@Nacho et all:

What needs to happen to make my wish come true of the first group lynching the second group. HELP ME HELP YOU.

I don't like that a majority of his time has been invested in defending himself versus burning the bad people. It's easy as scum to defend yourself from people going after you because of a quickhammer because reasonable people will see the bad arguments against you and they will feel you're town because you're generally stomp-thwomping the arguments around you, and inviting the bad attacks is a fine investment because you can get the more influential voices on your side. What I want to see is his thought processes on other people developing and I don't see anything of the sort in his play so far which sucks because Elli and I wanted Spy Spy to be town.

how much experience do you have playing w. pb btw?

[kanyeknowsbest]

i didnt want to quote that. why did it quote that

[kanyeknowsbest]

i rly should start previewing my quick replies because this has been happening a lot 2 me