A uPick of Ice & Fire - Day 12 - #REKT?

[Cephrir]

VOTE: Benmage

This day feels all wrong. I no longer like any of the wagons. I want to go in a totally opposite direction.

I want a lynch like on the 2nd day of the Balto invitational, to go to a place where no one particularly looks or scrutinizes. I don't remember Benmage playing particularly towny. I'm just reminded of the wire.

Who made this post?

[Eddard Stark]

Day 3, Vc 15

SpyreX (6) -

Tammy, ooba, Zdenek, elleheathen, Messiah Complex, Nautilius

AGar (5) -

Goat on a Raft, Benmage, Garruk Relentless, The Alchemist, Alfred Borden

Nautilius (1) -

quadz08

Zdenek (5) -

kanyeknowsbest, StupendousMan, Shadoweh, SpyreX, AGar

quadz08 (1) -

Tierce

elleheathen (1) -

Goat on a Raft

Benmage (1) -

PrideandJoy

Not voting (2)

:Cephrir, SafetyDance

With 21 alive it takes 11 votes to lynch

• Deadline Date: 25th of October at 16:05 EDT
  
• Deadline Countdown: (expired on 2013-10-25 04:30:01)
  
• I am V/la! Expect me once a Day to do VC's and prods and that type of stuff though.

[Zdenek]

Around the time Nacho started obvtowning all over the thread. Did you miss all that?

I don't think that its as townie as you do. It's basically what I expect from Nacho, and his push on me is garbage.

Do you think the SpyreX wagon is full of townies regardless of SpyreX's alignment?

No I don't.

What's he fence-sitting about?

Me. Is it not obvious?

You don't aggrivate me. That would imply you inspire an emotion in me. You inspire blandness.

:puzzled: - so why'd you say aggravate then?

I guess you could call it more uncheering the other wagons. Yours is a flip I want to see the results of.

Well, I'm going to disappoint you then.

[Tierce]

Empire. You have two posts to convince me you are Town. I'm done with this lurky BS, it's getting worse everyday, and Friday and Saturday are past. Where are your thoughts about the game?

Benmage--it's more than fair if you call me useless

now

, but at the point I made that quadz vote, it was everything

but

useless.

I'm still in no state to properly catch up, so excuse me if I can't be bothered with the pages upon pages of Feirei and Bulbazak potshots.

[Tierce]

SpyreX

(6) - Tammy, ooba, Zdenek, elleheathen, Messiah Complex, Nautilius

AGar

(5) - Goat on a Raft, Benmage, Garruk Relentless, The Alchemist, Alfred Borden
Zdenek (5) - kanyeknowsbest, StupendousMan, Shadoweh,

SpyreX

,

AGar

This makes me feel sick even without reading the game. WTF?

[Tammy]

tammy your scum reads are really terrible this game.

Which ones are wrong and which of my town reads are wrong?

[Tammy]

I wouldn't brag when the only lynches we have had have been mislynches.

I'm not proud, but Safetydance is peddling stupidity and needed a good mocking.

Elle read has mostly been me (Marble). She just has a lot of "gee, this is impressive if she's scum" posts.

Carry on then

But, did you guys meta her? I remember that you said you read her scum game and said it was good. I want to know if you guys read her town game too, because that I'd like to talk to you about.

[Tierce]

The same ultimatum goes for you, Syryana. Don't care what are your RL conditions. Shape up or GTFO.

[Tammy]

um, nothing of import has happened in the game. There is a run up, that is it. No one has pinged me. oh, and what I do, I do well. I don't suck but I don't play the way you do. Learn from it or not. I don't engage in pretend reasons and blah blah blah meta. If I make a meta comment and take time to do it, it is worth attending to. I have nothing right now. 5 pages in on day one and blah blah blah.

My experience with Peacebringer is that he always finds something to pick up on, so the fact he didn't find anything here is strange.

I was not shaking my head at Pride and Joy but rather the whole PnJ run up on a joke. Lack of humor and lack of tolerance for shtick. Just a bunch of knee jerk votes. The end part was just pointing out you had past exposure to my play.

Notice no reads, still.

I like both of these points. It was a major point I had about him in Wingate as I kept asking him for his reads but he ignored it several times. The only thing he did was attack the person attacking his partner. Whereas in chef he was active and attacked things and was able to take heat about his playstyle.

[Tammy]

No, Elleheathen is still probably town.

Why? I really am interested in seeing if you see what I see as missing from her town game.

Me too.
Since he's answered, what is it you see that's missing from my town game

that isn't in my scum game

?

He didn't answer.

[Tammy]

Syryana was town but I don't think that matters much.
Tierce/Tammy are very strong scumreads.

Oh you.

[Tammy]

I'm not as confident in Goat and Garruk because the main things clearing them were role-related reasons and I keep getting reminded about role related reasons to clear being bad in these specific scenarios. I'm also having trouble finding people who I feel good about calling scum elsewhere and I trust myself more on reads than I do on role shit at the moment.

My sleeping pill is kicking in, but I'm just posting this here because I wanted to remind myself to respond to this and your zdenek read. I'll do it tomorrow.

[SafetyDance]

I don't actually have an *any* read on Zed. I'd be inclined to vote just based on that. Would reduce the noise pollution. Will read back when I can do more than just skim. I will not be voting Spyrex.

[quadz08]

I'll post some things at some point today

[Alfred Borden]

Ugh, had a rough weekend so sorry for my lack of engagement recently. On a positive note though, I don't think I've been happier to see lots of pages in this thread than I am now. I'm staying up all of today to reset my sleeping schedule so expect more hours in this game with this half of Your Favorite Magician.

Town: Benmage, Cephrir, Garruk, Goat, Messiah, Shadoweh, Tierce,

Probably Town: Alfred, quads, the alchemist, zdenek, nautillus, safetydance

i will lynch any of: SPYREX, elle, ooba, prideandjoy, kanye, (at least on scum is in my town reads...I need to reread)

Ok, you and I need to talk because I've been townreading a lot of the people in your suspect pool and I want to know what's up here:

kanye:

Llamarble was concerned about him earlier but I think his play in this game has been very strongly town, especially reinforced if you go look at some of his old games. Compare his play as town in The Fortnight with his play as scum in Revolution Mafia. In The Fortnight, he was a lot more aggressive with his pushes (especially in the early game with his MattP reaction test) and seemed a lot more engaged generally and he's not afraid to get in people's faces unprompted / be abrasive (take a look at how he questions Quilford about his RQS). In his scum game, he seemed a lot more concerned with trying to fit in / staying under the radar and not make waves unless he had to (his activity really only started to spike after he started getting run up). I think his play here fits his town game perfectly (despite his weird activity shifts, he's had no problem coming back here and throwing himself into the game) to the point where he's one of my strongest townreads so I'm not really getting what you're seeing here especially.

ooba:

I found him pretty suspicious in the early game but given his more recent stuff and some assumptions I've made about his playstyle, dude seems solidly town to me. He's said somewhere in this game that he scumhunts by looking at associations so the big assumption I'm making about his play is that there will be more intensity coming from him over time. I took a look at some of his old games and while they might be a bit too old to be 100% solid as a meta framework (and it was a bitch to find good ones too), it's still worth thinking about. Compare his play as town in Succession Mafia II with his play as scum in /in-vitational 11. While he tends to look at mechanics a lot as both alignment, his reads feel like they're just way lazier as scum (just take a look at #381 and his later stuff doesn't improve). The big thing for me though is that he actually just plain seems to care A LOT more about who's actually getting lynched / optimal plays / etc. as town (ex: #2636 irritation). I like that in this game he seems to stick up for his reads and where the wagons are going -- way unlike his scum game where he was more passive.

PrideandJoy:

Unfortunately, I don't have a big meta folder on this slot as I just haven't had the time to look into both their heads (though my general impression is that they're playing to their town meta from Gay Mafia 2). I don't have much to add to what I said way back when about their earlier play (which still reads as very town even on a reread) other than to say I feel like Dan would find something to latch onto and push as scum rather than just proclaim he's lost. Big drop off in activity has me less certain about this read than I was on D1 but they're still reading town to me overall. Aside from (I'm assuming) the big drop in activity, what else has you scumreading them?

elleheathen:

I finally got some time this morning to take a look at her town game (the game in question) and is it weird to say that I think she's a lot bubblier as town? Basically, the impression I get from this game is that there's a lot less posturing in her posting overall and she doesn't just latch onto easy targets / focus on surface level scummy looking things. One thing though is that the difference from her scum game isn't as severe as I was expecting it to be but I don't particularly find her play in this game scummy at all. The general vibe that I get from her is that she doesn't feel intimidated by the roster despite being full of strong players and that she doesn't back down against someone like Thor. Why do you think she might be scum?

SpyreX:

I'll admit I don't really trust myself to read Spy in this game as I find his playstyle generally to be hard to read. I agree that the hammer thing is null (I don't remember if it's been mentioned yet or if someone else has brought it up since then, but he did the same thing in Maf.Puppy as town) and there are some things about his play that bug me in that he's been focusing on surface level stuff (his criticizing elle for wanting a claim before a hammer was pretty lame given her level of experience / the kind of game we're playing here, both things I feel he should have picked up on) but nowhere near confident enough to pin down a read on him, let alone vote him. Basically, I don't get where your confidence is coming from so mind talking about this one a little more too?

Aside from that, I'm in general agreement with your townreads though I'd switch Safety and Shadoweh around and I'd put Nautilius up a tier higher. One thing though: it seems as though you misplaced my slot in the "Probably Town" pile and not in the "Town" pile and you need to correct this very serious oversight (aren't you glad I'm such a great friend / player?)

Gotta head over to my old school to sort out job search related things + put some coffee in my system but I'll be back soon to tackle the rest of the thread, just needed to get this post out there.

[Alfred Borden]

Ok, I lied, I read a bit more >_>

My experience with Peacebringer is that he always finds something to pick up on, so the fact he didn't find anything here is strange.
[...]
Finally moves, and the vote is pretty useless. He doesn't push like I'd expect him to, he just kinda sits on an easy target (you make yourself look that way because of posting style, kanye) and then later moves to a different one. Replace out was weird for the reasons ooba noted.

I'm remembering his play in Wingate Mansion again and there might be something to the idea of him playing to his scum meta. In that game, he just basically focused on Generic for being "too overly defensive" or something like that and he didn't move his vote anywhere from that. I think Generic was the biggest wagon at the time he threw that vote down too so he might've just been going after someone he perceived to be an easy target and couldn't find any other to latch onto after the Generic wave died down. I'm honestly just frustrated that he's both not in this game anymore and that his recent meta is so scarce (I still have this weird feeling that the replace out tell Shadoweh brought up might actually be a thing). The slot's just a blank slate for me speckled with a bunch of weird, head scratching things that look bad but not so confident is scummy.

[Tammy]

Bordempire - Yeah you should be up one. (I did that between 4 and 6:30 in the morning when I was already beyond exhausted and I realized the next day when I looked at it, I totally forgot Agar.) And it looks like you're having the same problem as me. You just told me why most of my would lynch reads are town, but then said you agrees with my town reads >_>

That's not necessarily a scum list, though I do think that Spyrex and Elle have a really good chance at flipping scum, but that's my people I would lynch list. Basically I just feel better about other people being town than I do them.

Back to work more later.

[Goat on a Raft]

Prodded immediately after end of V/LA We're still here, catching up this evening.

[Garruk Relentless]

Consider this a very poor prod dodge. I've been reading but don't have much to add to the conversation. I am kinda wanting to go kill Alch, though, but I worry of repeating an Amrun situation.

[Benmage]

Alchemist just makes

me hate Faraday.

hurdur put in some strange replacement mechanic that lurks.

Cool.

[quadz08]

I know I'm a bad lynch. I really feel like SpyreX is a bad lynch. But today is not going to end in any other lynch. Let's be realistic here. The end of D2 was way too polarizing for most of the players in this game. No one wants to budge on those. Clearly if push comes to shove, I'm voting SpyreX, and he's voting me. The town needs to come to a consensus on one or the other and just lynch it and progress, because we're literally getting absolutely nowhere in this game right now. Half the town is lurking, and part of that is because we're beating a dead horse. A group feels I'm scummy for putting Amrun at L-1 to bait a quicklynch. Another group feels SpyreX is scummy for quickhammering. There's a handful of people who feel both of us are scummy. This is literally all today has given us, and all that it is going to give us.

this is an extremely defeatist thing for L-6 AGar to say. We're nowhere near a lynch and have not been all day. I feel like town-AGar should be fighting, not giving up.

Oh and Quadz is fence-sitting scum.

lolk

Improvement from Nautilius here (ACTUAL SCUMREADS WITH ACTUAL REASONS WOW) though I am somewhat torn. The catchup progression seems legitimate when looked at in its totality, but it just seems totally bizarre that he wouldn't focus on his scumreads first.

I echo the prevailing sentiment of "god dammit, alchemist, post some actual fucking words please"

Ooba's work on his Spy case all makes sense, but it just doesn't feel good to me. It's all predicated on his claim and how his predecessors played with that claim in mind, but it seems like a gigantic reach to say "these two lurking people didn't play optimally towards their role." Of course they didn't, they're Giant Useless Lurksacks. *shrug*

VOTE: Benmage

splain plz

Cephrir, explain what you think is wrong with elle's 2578, cause I'm not seeing it.

UNVOTE: for now, will vote someone else at some point when I feel like voting someone.

[Goat on a Raft]

Catchup ahoy...

[Goat on a Raft]

In other news,
Unvote: Spyrex
Vote: elleheathen

Why?

Combination of still thinking elle is scum from before but a growing sense that people are holding her as a general scumread without acting on it. Spyrex wagon is alright but ... how can we put this ... without nuance.

[Goat on a Raft]

still thinking elle is scum from before but a growing sense that people are holding her as a general scumread without acting on it

To add to this, the Zdenek wagon feels like a rough opposite of this - feels a bit convenient. This head is not a fan of Shadoweh's vote on him but still has a few pages to read before giving views on the whole wagon to date (currently at top of 100).

[Goat on a Raft]

That wasn't really as interesting as we hoped.

Spyrex's recent posts look slightly townier (although maybe it's just the flattery talking, his attitude towards us strikes this head as town-leaning).

Elle has dropped off

so hard

after the Thor lynch; our scumread has only got stronger and we really think that more people should be voting for her.

Alchemist looks more and more likely to be scum.

Kanye townread continues.