N's Notably Narcissistic Nonsensical Namesake (game over)

[Majiffy]

I'm

reading.

[Varsoon]

I'm

reading.

[PeaceBringer]

heh, forgot to come to this, but with Radiant's stance and toughts we are going to be doomed anyway, unless RC is scum.

[Majiffy]

I'm

reading.

Many times, mate.

[Mitillos]

@Shadow: Actually, if it's 7-4 right now and we mislynch and someone is killed, then it will be 5-4. Assume Varsoon is still around. 9 people, 10 votes. 6 votes to lynch someone. That means Varsoon plus 4 more people, at least. 5 in total. More than the mafia number. So, tomorrow scum will not have won. If Varsoon is town, the town can still vote scum and not lose. If Varsoon is scum, the town can still vote Varsoon and go back to the regular LyLo we all know and love.

[Rail Tracer]

Luna is town or SK. Either way, let Mafia deal with it.

welllll, at least you're so naive that i don't think you can be scum.

Varsoon's alignment is irrelevant.

no, it isn't. i'm not worried about varsoon being hated scum. i'm worried about him being NOT-hated scum. 'coz, you know, the only way to actually test it is to try to lynch him.

plus if varsoon is scum, as SP said, if we mislynch today then we either have to lynch varsoon tomorrow and hope he's scum, or hope to dear god he's town.

[Rail Tracer]

btw, i think everyone should at least have a look over the vote counts i posted in #1655 and pay particular attention to the people on the peacebringer wagon at all stages of the game, and where peacebringer's vote is at all stages of the game.

i think it strongly suggests peacebringer scum. plus i really want to cut off scum day talk.

i wanna do some ISO stuff before i commit to anything, but i'm thinking peacebringer is the play today.

[Mitillos]

EBWOP: Sorry, forgot your second scenario, where we get to 4-2. Then there are 7 votes, it takes 4 to lynch someone. Town can still lynch scum. Even if Varsoon is scum, they can only muster 3 votes. Not enough for a scum victory.

edit: @Rail: Why would he have come up with a fakeclaim like that? And isn't the last part true always? When we lynch someone, we hope he's scum and if we don't, we hope he's town. Or, you know, we figured out the entire scumteam and are getting them one at a time.
I haven't seen any scummy behaviour from Varsoon. I was annoyed by MUM's and Kid A's insistence on voting without explanations, but that's about it. So, since I'm basically townreading him, I'm not too worried. Also, a scum double-voter in 13 vs 4, with town almost entirely made up of roles of negative, minimal or zero utility? Not really sure about that.

[Mitillos]

I looked at Rail's VCs.

@Peace: When you moved off me on D3, why did you switch to Luna? The deadline wasn't far off and there wasn't really anyone much interested in voting Luna. So, what exactly was the purpose of your vote?

[Rail Tracer]

Why would he have come up with a fakeclaim like that?

i hear lying is a thing scum do.

[Mitillos]

I am a banana. That is a lie. Am I scum for saying it? No.
The thing about scum lying is that they do it when there is a tangible benefit to them. They don't just go "MUST LIE ABOUT EVERYTHING!".
What benefit would Varsoon gain from claiming hated? People would be a bit more careful about voting him? Sure, but that's not really much of a benefit. People wouldn't vote him because of it? I don't think so. If he's being scumread, people will vote him.
The thing is, people have been attacking him for his role, instead of his alignment. That's the part I don't like and why I'm arguing all this. If you have any reason to believe that he is scum, point out his scummy behaviour. Make an argument about that.
The same is true about Peace. If you think he's scum, show us how this is the case and vote for him. Don't do it just because of the daytalk thing.

[Rail Tracer]

I am a banana. That is a lie. Am I scum for saying it? No.

logic101. all A have property B doesn't imply anything with property B is A.

The thing about scum lying is that they do it when there is a tangible benefit to them. They don't just go "MUST LIE ABOUT EVERYTHING!".
What benefit would Varsoon gain from claiming hated?

because he needed to claim

some sort of negative utility

to go along with his double-voting ability or we'd lynch him on the spot.

he may actually be hated, or he could have some other negative utility aspect attached to his role and be lying about being hated because they're 1 mislynch away from a win, orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr he might not have negative utility attached to his role.

The thing is, people have been attacking him for his role, instead of his alignment.

that's because every player in his slot, him included, have been a useless pile of null.

[Rail Tracer]

who do you actually think is scum, mit?

give me 4 names.

[Rail Tracer]

you're talking a lot but you're not actually doing anything in the way of finding scum, or talking about who you think is scum

[BBmolla]

also pretty sure bb is town. don't be scum, bb. it would sadden me more than i am already saddened this game.

I'm not. So just imagine how frustrating it is to have a neighborhood with RC who is absolutely convinced I am.

[PeaceBringer]

I looked at Rail's VCs.

@Peace: When you moved off me on D3, why did you switch to Luna? The deadline wasn't far off and there wasn't really anyone much interested in voting Luna. So, what exactly was the purpose of your vote?

I was thinking that KMD was not likely scum, I believe Luna to be scum...

[Varsoon]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Dante

Scum don't type like Mitilos is typing.
Dante wagon is better for me right now.

[Mitillos]

@Rail: OK, I see your point. But then, our Necromancer didn't have negative utility (I doubt there are werewolves, making him zero utility at worst). Neromollie was very much positive utility, too. So, I'm not even sure that scum would actually need to claim negative utility. But, that's beside the point. The nullness of the slot is much more important.
As for who is scum... I don't know. I guess the scummiest are:
1) At least one of BB/RC. RC's unjustified push on BB pretty much since he replaced in is very anti-town. On the other hand, BB's interactions with some players (e.g. SK) have been rather iffy. I don't think both of them are scum, though.
2) I'm starting to come around on PeaceBringer. I didn't like his response in the post above. In general, his voting behaviour seems like he's playing it safe the whole time.
@Peace: The Luna wagon was very much not viable given the deadline. It looks like you knew that, since people would get off me, because of my claim, they'd be likely to go for the second largest wagon and wanted to keep away from it.
3 & 4) I have no idea. Most of my reads have all been moving increasingly towards the null area. Towny people have been acting slightly scummy and vice-versa. I need to ISO the Varsoon and Luna slots again, for now.

[Varsoon]

RC played this way in Newbie 1356 and he was town there. Of course, I don't really think meta is that useful, so RC could just as well be scum in this one. /shrug.

[Mitillos]

@Varsoon: Umm... I'm reading that game and RC is nothing like that in this game. He's giving reads and reasoning. Here, he just went "BB is scum, vote him or me, I won't make any deals." and didn't bother explaining this stance, at any point.

[RadiantCowbells]

Then lynch me today, and then get you / bb tomorrow.

[Shadowy Poison]

you're talking a lot but you're not actually doing anything in the way of finding scum, or talking about who you think is scum

and bingo was his name-o

- Des

[Varsoon]

@Varsoon: Umm... I'm reading that game and RC is nothing like that in this game. He's giving reads and reasoning. Here, he just went "BB is scum, vote him or me, I won't make any deals." and didn't bother explaining this stance, at any point.

Then maybe I'm trippin' or thinking of a different game.

[Shadowy Poison]

Like, this dude can't even give us three names on D4.

Majiffy-Mitillos-Dante-Peacebringer. Peace dies first so they can't talk to each other anymore. You other three can start bussing him whenever.

- Des

[Mitillos]

@RC: Your behaviour in a single newbie game doesn't absolutely mean you're scum in this. I'd rather get some actual scum, before considering you and BB, since I'm fairly certain at least one of you is town.

@Shadow: I don't have three names. If there had been a scum flip, I might.
Also, I was wondering, why were you not certain if the N2 thing was town or not? I believe you said that its wording was along the lines of "if you are naughty we can't be friends but if you are nice you get to potentially block the kill". But that seems pretty clearly town to me. It reads like a roleblock that only works on scum, but allows town to go through just fine. Also, you never answered my question: Do you know who did this to you?