A uPick of Ice & Fire - Day 12 - #REKT?

[kanyeknowsbest]

stay on the wagon for the partner you were trying to bus while town pushes a quick wagon you dont think needs your vote to complete is a fairly basic scumstrat shadowy.

[Eddard Stark]

Day 4, Vc 2

The Alchemist (1) -

Benmage

Zdenek (4) -

Katsuki, AGar, Nautilius, The Alchemist

elleheathen (1) -

Goat on a Raft

Not voting (14)

:Alfred Borden, Cephrir, elleheathen, Garuk Relentless, kanyeknowsbest, Messiah Complex, ooba, Prideandjoy, quadz08, SafetyDance, Shadoweh, Tammy, Tierce, Zdenek

With 20 alive it takes 11 votes to lynch

• Deadline Date: 10th of October at 17:00 EDT
  
• Deadline Countdown: (expired on 2013-11-10 17:00:00)
  
• ooba is V/la

[Tierce]

Valar dohaeris, m'dear.

D'you wanna talk about last night?

Not much to gain by talking about last Night.

[Shadoweh]

stay on the wagon for the partner you were trying to bus while town pushes a quick wagon you dont think needs your vote to complete is a fairly basic scumstrat shadowy.

But the only other wagon was Agar, and Agar was losing favor for the Spyrex since they were in the running for similar reasons. I thought hoping on the Zdenek wagon when it might have gained steam looked more like trying to jump on a liferaft.

[quadz08]

I'm here, need to do some re-reading before I say anything useful in here

[Benmage]

No way Zdenek is scum with Spyrex... and didn't bus him at the end of yesterday.

[ooba]

a) SpyreX: Elle case was stronger - yet he chose to vote Zednek

Out of the three initial cases in 2300, elle's was the strongest.
His next posts only reinforced the view: 2372, 2376, 2430, 2574
However when he votes for Zednek, the only mention of elle in that post is "elle took the low bar and went under it with the last posts.". Compare it to his AGar reasoning and how that read naturally becomes less scummy in his eyes over multiple posts.

b) Elle: Weak push on the SpyreX lynch

*passes through with a Spyrex For Scum picket sign*

Allllll the procrastinators.

c) Slight overreaction to Messiah's question on the above

Messiah pointed out those were weak pushes and that she should do more. His tone was 'get off your ass and be proactive' than 'you're scummy'. Her response - esp. the 'questionable' part seems like an overreaction.

Spoiler: post

*passes through with a Spyrex For Scum picket sign*

Hey, this isn't doing jack shit for anyone. If you actually want to help me get him lynched you should start putting in the same kind of time you did pussy footing around with Thor D1.

Yeah, I hear ya.

But do you actually think my 'pussy footing around with Thor D1' did 'jack shit for anyone' either, when a good portion of the group here admitted to not only ignoring what was in it but not even reading it? A theme that seemed to be carried into Day 2 since most of my questions went unanswered and my arguments about Zdenek and kanye ignored.

So yeah, admittedly - I've become disengaged.

So why is it more questionable that despite the fact that I've already said

why

I feel like he should be lynched and

why

I'm on the wagon than those that haven't?

You seem to dislike my comment on the procrastination going on in reference to all those that haven't taken a stand and are just sitting back prod dodging as time ticks by so that we're put into yet another loldeadline situation. We have 4 people that aren't even voting and another 4 on solo votes - a good majority of those that aren't doing crap all. Yet

I'm

the one not helping you?

Welp. It is what is it, then.

d) Willing to lynch Zednek (who SpyreX was voting)

I think this is the nail in the coffin though. She was sure SpyreX is scum but if it came to deadline - and it was between "Zed and anybody else" - she would vote Zed. Who SpyreX was voting.

My vote will stay on Spyrex - because I think he's scum and needs to die.

However, if the incoming loldeadline takes Spy off the table and means it's a choice between Zdenek and someone else, then yes, I would vote Zdenek. Or you.

e) SpyreX referring to my earlier case

"If we needed any more proof on the ooba front he's now implied that Messiah and I are scum together. Think about that." -> The fact that SpyreX went out of his way to mention my D2 case seemed like he was focusing on my cases - I did call out elle and quadz scumbuddies just before he said this.

---

Vote: Elle

[Eddard Stark]

Zdenek has requested replacement. Looking now.

[SafetyDance]

Will take that, though think it was stumbled upon.

Quadz didn't visit Tierce last night, or anyone else.

Feeling better about Kanye now. Shadow, less so.

vote: Zdenek

[Tierce]

Care to explain how you've now claimed two Track results, and one of them is weirdly specifically about a Tracker's non-targets?

[Alfred Borden]

Here's a more detailed look at what I have w.r.t. kanye / ooba / Shadoweh / Zdenek. I'll be doing more over the course of the next couple of days.

Kanye's mainly due to PeaceBringer's early attack on him. From what I remember seeing of him in Wingate Mansion and the short Antihero Mafia game, he's not a big busser and he tends to go after people he views as easy targets on weak reasoning which fits his attack on kanye on D1 to a T (basically a weak tunnel due to kanye's "wagon hopping"). I also definitely feel like he would have bussed SpyreX (especially after the hammer) rather than insist that the slot was town all the way up until post-hammer, especially given that a big portion of his reasoning for insisting that the slot was town was based on a predecessor a number of people found dubious (#2555 in particular). For some reason I thought there was a lot more here in terms of interactions with that slot but going over his ISO there isn't as much as I originally thought -- what's there is still town though.

PeaceBringer doesn't really talk much about ooba except to mention to quadz in #443 that nothing about his ISO is scummy. However, I really liked that ooba brought up those points about PeaceBringer's replace out starting in #2090 as I really don't think he'd have brought up that issue and ran with it as that slot's scumbuddy, especially given that he does tend to be somewhat conservative with early game bussing in large games from what I remember going through his meta. Also, something minor, but one of the very few concrete things displaced said while he was around was that he didn't understand the ooba wagon in #1405 something like 4 days before deadline. Given the timing and the little effort he did to push that lynch away, I think he was saying that to look town after that potential mislynch went through.

Shadoweh was another player (and I think the first off the top of my head) who drew attention to the weirdness of PeaceBringer's replace out which again is something I don't think she'd have brought up as a scum partner. From what I remember, in games like Wingate Mansion and ADwD, she didn't really have a problem with bussing at all and feel like she'd have committed harder to it than she did here (softly suspecting PeaceBringer but then railing against the SpyreX wagon, going to far as to call it terrible in twilight in #2993). Weaker read than the two above, but I'm leaning towards her not being scum with SpyreX either.

On Tierce's request, I took a look at Zdenek: he was also one of the first to point out PeaceBringer's replace out which bodes well for him (albeit it was for a weird, Zdenek-y reason). However, the main thing that does make me think he's town is the last minute vote onto Zdenek -- it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for Zdenek to unvote SpyreX and vote Alchemist long after the latter's wagon had deflated if Zdenek / SpyreX are bussing (takes the wind out of any sort of credibility he'd be hoping to gain considering both players had been pushing each other all day).

[kanyeknowsbest]

vote ellehethenso

[Tammy]

Will take that, though think it was stumbled upon.

Quadz didn't visit Tierce last night, or anyone else.

Feeling better about Kanye now. Shadow, less so.

vote: Zdenek

Why did you choose to track quadz? You didn't say anything about him yesterday and suggested you thought paj and Elle were scum.

[Tammy]

Also also why did you accuse zdenek of role fishing for asking why you chose nautilus to track, then come out today and say quadz did nothing?

[Tammy]

And a triple also, sometimes following Tammy onto a wagon brings about awesome results.

[Tierce]

Fine. I get the ITYS after the game that this does not help town in anyway.

Meera Reed - (para) as a skilled hunter I have the following 1-shot abilities:
Snare/Roleblock
Track
Hunter Gatherer/Fruit Vendor

Passive QT with Jojen (if he's in the game). No one has posted in it.

Unless Nautilius is a ninja, they didn't kill last night.

Quadz didn't visit Tierce last night, or anyone else.

What thrilling explanations we should be getting from this.

[Tierce]

We need an explanation on what you actually did last Night

now

, not three days hence, SafetyDance.

[kanyeknowsbest]

gently tierce, coax it gently~~~

[Tierce]

It's not so much SafetyDance that I'm concerned about, though that wording is weird as hell. But there are ~things~ with that Night result that might be entertaining.

[kanyeknowsbest]

believe me im definitely eagerly anticipating

[AGar]

Ok, Sox game is over. I can post now.

Zdenek is scum.
By AGar

D1
- The push on Thor for his claim felt really artificial and contrived. Re-read it and see how he pushes arbitrary or awkward points that don't really add up, and when debunked, keeps with them. Stretching hard for a mislynch off the back of Benmage's push (which was abysmal, but I can at least see the town mindset there).
- The weak push on SD where he doesn't actually commit, just pussyfoots around SD's ten scumreads.
- Arguing with Kanye (who's pretty obvtown and has been for a while now) instead of being productive, but again pussyfooting it (his vote is still parked on Goat at this point in D1).
- Generally not actually trying to motivate people to join in on his attempt to get Goat lynched. Basically looks like he wants to park a vote on someone he knows isn't going to be lynched, and take small one-liner shots at random people without actually getting his hands dirty.
- #1324 is just downright awful. Excuse for not voting for kanye ("I only have one vote"), then saying kanye can die (still no vote), then some random commentary on a mollie/kanye exchange.
[indent]- This is now 16 posts on D1 from when he voted for Goat on a Raft, and he never once even tries to get traction for a wagon, instead casting his suspicions in about 6 different directions.
- #1419 he gives up on Goat because it's not going anywhere. He made 22 posts without once trying to get any support for the wagon, then acts as if it's everyone else's fault we don't follow his read. But then he votes Amrun, instead of Kanye. No mention of Kanye, and the only backing is "typical scum ISO."
- Switches to Thor, then parks his vote and goes into breeze mode. This is scum who knew his partners weren't on the lynch block that day.

D2
- Quick vote of Amrun to open. No backing, no further attempt to get people interested. Just a vote.
- Explains Amrun's lack of activity is between null and scummy and he's ok lynching her. So Kanye needed to die on D1, but now on D2 he's fine lynching someone he has, at best, a weak scumread on. Still no explanation or attempt to convince people. Like zero attempt. This is also apparently his only read on D2.
- Between that post and the end of the day, nothing useful. Seemingly empty questions, unless he's hoarding every single read he has and waiting till... I dunno, he gets an engraved invitation to share them?

D3
- Quick vote on SpyreX. Presumably for the quickhammer. On, y'know, the wagon he parked his vote on to start D1. This is just a bad start.
- The whole SpyreX-Zdenek dynamic looks like a botched attempt to cross-bus. Zdenek votes for SpyreX for fairly weak reasons. SpyreX tries to push back at Zdenek and maybe link him to someone unrelated. Neither is too aggressive about it (although this is the first time Zdenek actually, y'know, explains a vote in any detail - I don't think this is coincidental).
- He finally spills his reads! This is progress. Too bad half of them are weak, and it's D3 and you shouldn't have mostly weak reads if you're reading along.
- Weak vote for The Alchemist at the end (getting away from the SpyreX lynch when a convenient alternative appears!) and then continued discussion on that topic. That SpyreX read disappeared REAL QUICK.

Yeah you should all be voting for Zdenek.

@Naut

I said specifically on D3, I felt PB/displaced left me with a null/slightly-scum read but SpyreX's owning of that hammer felt town as shit to me. That's literally the entire crux of that read right there. His posting on D3 was purposeful. He managed to keep himself engaged in the light of the wagon. Those are things I expect town to do, not scum.

@Kat

What was the whole counter-claim business thing yesterday? I don't fully get what happened there really.

I also want an explanation from SD because something's not adding up, or I'm slow on the uptake today. Not sure which yet. Probably the latter.

[Unmasked Kit]

@Kat

What was the whole counter-claim business thing yesterday? I don't fully get what happened there really.

I just wanted him dead.

[Katsuki]

@Kat

What was the whole counter-claim business thing yesterday? I don't fully get what happened there really.

I just wanted him dead.

[Imperium]

It's not so much SafetyDance that I'm concerned about, though that wording is weird as hell. But there are ~things~ with that Night result that might be entertaining.

Well it *could* be interesting concerning safety dance! but yes the wording is off and there is something else that could be interesting as well.

[Tammy]

It's not so much SafetyDance that I'm concerned about, though that wording is weird as hell. But there are ~things~ with that Night result that might be entertaining.

Well it *could* be interesting concerning safety dance! but yes the wording is off and there is something else that could be interesting as well.

Oopsie