A uPick of Ice & Fire - Day 12 - #REKT?

[Cephrir]

SSK checking in here. In addition to SD's lack of clarity regarding his claim, this hydra also thinks he's scum because of the difference of his play as compared to Lucid Dreamers Mafia. In Lucid Dreamers, he was way more active and making cases more on everyone. And you know, so explicit with how roles worked that he actually made a table of all the actions that had been performed. So in conclusion

Vote SafetyDance

-SSK

Why have we not heard of this before, or if we have b/c I can't be bothered to check, why haven't you been voicing this much?

[Garruk Relentless]

We legit haven't talked about this game since mid-day three(note SSK's lack of presence) and Lucid Dreamers was still ongoing for one. We literally just talked about it--I took my vote off SD day one on the basis of his claim, shouldn't have.

[Tierce]

Yes you should.

elle--go ahead.

[Tierce]

3196 was a terrible vote, quadz.

[Titus]

Tierce, what do you think of SD? Saying something's a terrible vote is suggestive but it doesn't answer how you feel on the issue.

[Tierce]

*sigh* basic mafia theory, man. You out tracks if they give you pseudo-guilties, not pseudo-innocents, unless another claim contradicts your results or it's fullclaim time.

Curious to see how he responds to Garruk's question.

I love how everyone's a hindsight expert and no one said boo D3.

I don't need to respond to GR, since he's being stupid because there's no confusion or contradiction.

Yesterday was Day 3. Today is Day 4. Therefore day 3 IS yesterday and yesterday was when I claimed to have blocked Naut D2.

Can't have visited Naut and Quadz on the same night, they would be kinda impossible.

This is as much clarification as we need. Roleblocked Nautilius, tracked quadz, has no idea what he's doing otherwise, and is collecting a pile of opportunistic votes hiding behind :justice:. The sad part is that some are bound to come from Town.

And still 20 players to go. Joy.


...if I thought he was scum, I'd be voting him. My "suggestive" wording is hardly hazy.

[Titus]

I figured you were leaning that way Tierce. I wanted to be sure on my notes. That's all.

If he tracked Quadz though, what should his result be?

[Benmage]

SD lynch again

[Tierce]

"quadz did not go anywhere", apparently. Which is a normal track result.

[Titus]

Tierce, even then, you don't sound 100% certain (as indicated by "apparently". You should be if you're saying that's what the result is. The whole point of this (from my POV) is to get that certainty. No wishy washy behavior. I did this this n1. I did this n2. I did this n3. These were the results. Not this confusion inducing bullshit. I operate best when I know where all the pieces are in the board. SD's confusion inhibits my ability to understand this.

Benmage, how about actually saying something productive?

[Garruk Relentless]

I don't think Tierce is the one you should ask for clarification from regarding SD's result?

[Tierce]

Seriously Titus we're not going to go over basic VCA and the wording of a really badly formulated claim. This game is long enough as it is. Have you read it? What are your thoughts? I'd like something a bit deeper than your pretense at VCA. Being on wagons is not and will not be a scumtell, some people make the wagons large because they do know how to push their votes.

...and no, we're not going to wagon him on a petty technicality. I don't care how much of a blundering fool he is, and I don't care that you don't think I sound 100% certain. I'm not a Tracker, I'm not going to claim I know how his results are worded.

[Titus]

SD should be giving this clarification straight forward. Any player in the game SHOULD be able to answer that question with certainty. That's my point. It's ridiculous.

Tierce, what the hell is it you are wanting? I'm looking at the things that stick out to me first, resolving those and figuring out the puzzle. I view each piece as important to the entire puzzle. On one hand, you're dismissing the obvious, scum like to push mislynches so looking at VCAs can be useful, and unclear actions should be clarified. I don't view SD's actions as a petty technicality as his claim was what saved him and Thor's claim is what lynched him if I am understanding right. I push, I interrogate. It may take me awhile to know everything about the players and form reads on everyone. Right now, I want clarity from SD and I'm going to push that until I get clarity and why the hell he's not being clear.

[Katsuki]

Tierce who's scum?

[Tierce]

He has given it straightforwardly. He said he roleblocked Nautilius N2, which means he trakced quadz last Night. I don't care if you don't like the way he did it or if it wasn't stylized the way you wanted it to be, it's still there.

And what I want from you is actual contribution that doesn't revolve around "this person didn't claim in the way I wanted them to". You wanted clarity, here's clarity for you: he roleblocked Nautilius N2, he tracked quadz08 N3, and he doesn't know the difference between a Ninja and a Strongman.

Games are always going to have double standards. I pushed Thor partially because of his claim. SafetyDance's claim comes from Town. So he's going to be treated as Town. You're pushing him on his claim to achieve some sort of level playing field between him and Thor, and that's just silly.


Hey Kats I really want to lynch you right now for your attempts at pandering to me.

[Tierce]

Pandering is not really the word here--you're really really really trying to make sure I notice you reaching out to me, though, which comes across as forced.

[kanyeknowsbest]

Well that was unnecessarily hostile.

You confused Ninja with Strongman, your brilliance.

Pfft. More than happy to volley snarky bs back with interest.

Ninja's avoid detection, which is how Naut would avoid being detected doing anything night 2.

?????

he knows what a ninja is. and he cant decide if he tracked nautilus or not.

[Titus]

I'm not looking for a level playing field between him and Thor. I was stating a comparison. SD needs to be as clear and direct as you. Period. If not, I'll want to lynch him.

I am fucking contributing. I don't scumhunt the way you want. I have to fully understand what is going on in order to actually have a coherent theory. I'm not going to push some half assed theory that has no substance behind it because you say you want actual contribution. You'll know where I stand on something when I actually have the intelligent information to make a god damn stand. I don't force it. You should see a thought process behind my posts. If you don't feel free to ask questions to clarify but I'm not going to randomly start guessing.

I frankly don't share your confidence on SD. I won't until HE speaks clearly and explains everything step by step.

[Titus]

Pandering is not really the word here--you're really really really trying to make sure I notice you reaching out to me, though, which comes across as forced.

This I agree with. Someone who is scumhunting would logically know where I want to stand. Yet, he picks you. I find that odd.

[Tierce]

Looking solely at day 1VCA, ooba and safetydance need scrutiny. Their wagons were above 10 according to the vcs the mod posted. There was no counterwagon on Amrun, which suggests it was heavily scum pushed. On day three my slot was wagoned with Spyrex and spyrex was scum. That suggests scum was pushing my wagon.

Now, let's see if anyone fits the profile I have drawn up. Pushing amrun, pushing me and pushing thor.

I'm not looking for a level playing field between him and Thor. I was stating a comparison. SD needs to be as clear and direct as you. Period. If not, I'll want to lynch him.

I am fucking contributing. I don't scumhunt the way you want. I have to fully understand what is going on in order to actually have a coherent theory.

I'm not going to push some half assed theory that has no substance behind it

because you say you want actual contribution. You'll know where I stand on something when I actually have the intelligent information to make a god damn stand. I don't force it. You should see a thought process behind my posts. If you don't feel free to ask questions to clarify but I'm not going to randomly start guessing.

I frankly don't share your confidence on SD. I won't until HE speaks clearly and explains everything step by step.

The above is a half-assed theory. Scum pushing your wagon isn't exactly a tough concept to get through--there's going to be scum in nigh every wagon, but that is some really poor, basic VCA with no real grounding on facts.

I don't even know what you have and haven't read from the game at this point. I asked you what you have read, and you dodged that question. There is "intelligent information" to be had from 120 pages of content and I don't know which ones you've read.


Frankly, Katsuki reaching out to me over you isn't that surprising. He knows me, he does not know you, and he has very few cares to give. However, the manner is which he is reaching out to me is the one suspect.

[kanyeknowsbest]

Well that was unnecessarily hostile.

You confused Ninja with Strongman, your brilliance.

Pfft. More than happy to volley snarky bs back with interest.

Ninja's avoid detection, which is how Naut would avoid being detected doing anything night 2.

?????

he knows what a ninja is. and he cant decide if he tracked nautilus or not.

pls tell me how you rationalize this against what youve stated tierce ty.

[Tammy]

I'd probably be down with a safety dance lynch. Meta him. I read through that game Garruck mentioned, and safety dance wanted to lynch chkflip for lol not playing the game. He's also been active in at least one other game all month while doing nothing but lobbing sanctimonious insults in this game.

He's not some blundering VI fool. He knows how to play this damn game and I don't know why he's being written off as the town idiot when he's patently not a fucking idiot.

I swear if he's scum. Words. There will be words.

[Cephrir]

Well that was unnecessarily hostile.

You confused Ninja with Strongman, your brilliance.

Pfft. More than happy to volley snarky bs back with interest.

Ninja's avoid detection, which is how Naut would avoid being detected doing anything night 2.

?????

he knows what a ninja is. and he cant decide if he tracked nautilus or not.

Oh. Right.

VOTE: SD

[Tierce]

Well that was unnecessarily hostile.

You confused Ninja with Strongman, your brilliance.

Pfft. More than happy to volley snarky bs back with interest.

Ninja's avoid detection, which is how Naut would avoid being detected doing anything night 2.

?????

he knows what a ninja is. and he cant decide if he tracked nautilus or not.

pls tell me how you rationalize this against what youve stated tierce ty.

He's stated he has roleblocked Nacho. And yes, he's saying Ninjas are untrackable, but I also think he believes Ninjas can't be roleblocked.

All I needed and wanted to know was whether he had roleblocked quadz. He didn't. Beyond that, he can paint himself blue and keep rolling his eyes at people for all I care.


With that said, I'm going to read that game and get back to you.

[Cephrir]

Ninja's avoid detection, which is how Naut would avoid being detected doing anything night 2.

Tierce I think you need to read this again