Mewbie 1442 the second -- Game over

[CrisP]

JM you keep missing the point, why aren't you worried mafia is going to hammer you?

You are at L-1.

The answer is you know mafia is not going to hammer you because you are the mafia, so no worries there, the important thing for you is to convince the rest of town not to vote.

Now if you were town you would be screaming about being first at L-2 and now at L-1, I did not even write it to make a point about how much you are not thinking of it.

So now:

JM is at L-1, hammer only with intent.

I made a case against both of you, Buck voted your l-2 without a care in the world because he also has no worries about mafia hammering.

[jmo16mla]

scum wont hammer me because they don't want to look scummy. You need help.

I didn't realize i was L-2. I didnt know i was L-1 until you said it.

CrisP, please explain why YOUR WHOLE CASE AT THIS TIME IS ABOUT MAFIA NOT HAMMERING? You're seriously idiotic. I don't give a shit if your feelings are hurt by me calling you an idiot. Why the fuck would scum just auto hammer me? That would make it painfully obvious that they were scum and they would be auto lynched the next day. Why would they want the suspicion on them?

To hammer, scum would have to ask me to claim. so, they wouldn't be able to auto hammer anyways.

[jmo16mla]

WE HAVE HAD LESS THAN TWO GOD DAMN PAGES TO TALK ABOUT DAY TWO?
So, if I were to be lynched, and I'm town, what did you learn about today? what new information besides me being town? tomorrow, you go to lylo with no new information.

ARC STILL HASNT EVEN POSTED YOU IDIOT. YOU COMPLAINED THAT ARC DIDN'T EVEN POST AND TRIED TO PRESSURE HER YESTERDAY TO GET TO TALK. SHE DIDNT TALK AND NOW YOU WANT TO LYNCH ME WITHOUT HER SAYING ANYTHING AGAIN?

SO, YOURE POSSIBLY GOING INTO LYLO TOMORROW WITH LESS THAN 10 POST FROM ONE SLOT? THAT'S HOW YOU WIN GAMES. YOU'RE A PRO KID.

[jmo16mla]

By the way, if someone does auto hammer me, they are auto lynched tomorrow, and I'm blacklisting you from any future game with you. JUST SO YOU KNOW.

[jmo16mla]

One more post shall we?

Now, you want me to be lynched with Buck not even voting his prime suspect?

You want me lynched without someone even posting ONCE today?

Do you realize how bad of a game you're trying to play?

Do you realize how shitty this game will be?

I guess I have to take over as IC since nacho is dead and any other SE isnt helping.

[CrisP]

How rude.

I didn't realize i was L-2. I didnt know i was L-1 until you said it.

That's the point, compare your reaction to what Yui113 thought about when the GM interrogation was going on, and see how a town thinks and how a mafia thinks.

Why the fuck would scum just auto hammer me?

auto hammer? Who said anything about auto hammering, Brian for instance stated he was suspicious about you the whole time, he would have a perfectly valid excuse to come here, write an accusation and kill you off if he were mafia.

To hammer, scum would have to ask me to claim. so, they wouldn't be able to auto hammer anyways.

what is this? Are you trying to fake claim something?

Also the whole case? Not at all:

- The case about you starts by your early and unexplained pressure on GM, the only valid reason I have heard for this behaviour is GM's, you were doing it to get her killed because she is an experienced player.

- It continues with the terrible defence you gave when put on the spot, first you decline to answer, second you answer with very flimsy justifications and then you just plain tell people what to do or resort to insults. Just compare your defence with GM's, I mean there is no comparison...

- It is reinforced by the NK which in your mind is the big play that is going to save you next day, what you are thinking is: I'm going to kill off nacho and claim tomorrow that any lynch on me is an easy mafia push because my only defender has been removed. Any other mafia player would have been better off by killing me, 80% of the activity on this thread would die down and easy lynches on low hanging fruits would ensue.

- You start the day with precisely that in mind, first you try and spoon feed GM into saying what you want, then you continue preparing the ground for your inevitable defence, you also contradict yourself: first you state that you are waiting for GM's partner to post (and at that time you had me in mind), then after I come out and accuse GM you say you are waiting on Arc and Buck's posts, so presumably either Buck or Arc are GM's buddies, but now your scum is Brian which you apparently were not waiting on to post before.

- And finally the whole bussing fiasco and forgetting town would be worried about mafia hammering them.

here you are, now manners please, can I ask the mod to keep it civil or is this behavior is allowed?

[jmo16mla]

Oh don't be a winch and being "civil" I've been talked to many times worse.

And in fact, I actually am attacking your playstyle. You're playing an absolutely horrible game and you obviously don't care. I don't know why YOU weren't killed last night if you want to be honest. You were highly regarded as town by just about everyone. Strange. Again, I'm telling you that drawing conclusions before a flip is HORRIBLE game play. You're assuming you know everything and have this game figured out. You've got two people that haven't posted nearly anything. HOW DO YOU HAVE THE GAME SOLVED WITH TWO PLAYERS THAT ARE INACTIVE?

What happened to you wanting arc to talk?

I didn't vote GM. What made you suspect that I was basing so much of my case on the NK? Where do you get that from? I was simply pressuring her.

You're brand new at this game and you've got it figured out eh? Good for you kid.

[CrisP]

ARC STILL HASNT EVEN POSTED YOU IDIOT. YOU COMPLAINED THAT ARC DIDN'T EVEN POST AND TRIED TO PRESSURE HER YESTERDAY TO GET TO TALK. SHE DIDNT TALK AND NOW YOU WANT TO LYNCH ME WITHOUT HER SAYING ANYTHING AGAIN?

That was before RM flipped town, now Arc not voting makes her a lot less suspicious without the need to talk.

SO, YOURE POSSIBLY GOING INTO LYLO TOMORROW WITH LESS THAN 10 POST FROM ONE SLOT? THAT'S HOW YOU WIN GAMES. YOU'RE A PRO KID.

Not at all, let's say you are town, then it's very likely for GM to be mafia, I'm very happy about trading you as town for GM as mafia, clearly we are getting rid of a liability on one side and a strong player on the other, that was a pretty good defence she gave regardless of whether she is town, as I think, or mafia.

By the way, if someone does auto hammer me, they are auto lynched tomorrow, and I'm blacklisting you from any future game with you. JUST SO YOU KNOW.

Are you the mod now? If you die and your alignment is determined the remaining players will decide what to do. Well considering your behaviour you not wanting to play with me is quite a relief, also I strongly advise the moderators not to let you join newbie games, you are clearly not suited for them.

[CrisP]

I didn't vote GM. What made you suspect that I was basing so much of my case on the NK? Where do you get that from? I was simply pressuring her.

You again choose to selectively defend yourself on one specific point and forget all the plethora of reasons given for your vote, to which I might add, you just tried to fake claim something without telling what, that's like the biggest tell ever that you are scummy.

Of course the part about the NK is speculation, it might be right, it might be wrong, it's just a possibility that fits into what you might think if you are mafia, it explains what happened and is consistent with the rest of my case against you.

As I already told you once before, if you get lynched as town, it is your own fault for playing a horrible game. Let's assume that as you keep on stating I'm a newbie, or an idiot, or someone that needs help (lel look who's talking, you're practically a basket case), then the other townies will realize my accusations are baseless and your lynch won't get through.

[jmo16mla]

I tried fake claiming? What?

You're really not worth me getting mod killed over so I'll bite my tongue. Try to not get too butt hurt though. Some people have a different way of coming off to people than others.

I'm not the mod, I'm telling you, and anyone else in this game that if I'm lynched without declaring intent hammer, and giving me a chance, then they need to be auto lynched tomorrow. No if ands or butts. If they are town, then they lost the game for us. Pretty simple eh? Why don't you ever listen to people who have been on site longer than you when it comes to things? That's what pisses me off. Sure, you're entitled to your opinion and that's perfectly wonderful, rainbows and ponies. But when more experienced people try to tell you something ABOUT YOUR PLAY, then you should probably take note.

Now, we have two slots in which we know nothing about and I would surely like to get some information from them.

From what I've got, your case on me was because nacho was defending me so much.(he's dead and town) I tried to force feed nacho'a death to goodmorning. (I didn't, I asked her why she thought he was dead. What's wrong with that? What's wrong with pressuring a player???) then, I don't even know. You really need to work on your game, as I've already stated.

[Malakittens]

2.02

With 7 alive it's 4 votes to lynch.

Voting for:

*CrisP -
*Yiu113 -
*goodmorning -
*Brian Skies - jmo16mla [1]
*jmo16mla - Goodmorning, Buckwild, CrisP [3] [L-1]
*ArcAngel9 -
*Buckwild -
*Nachomamma8 -

Not voting: ArcAngel9, Brian Skies, Yiu113 [3]

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2013-11-28 21:56:00)

[Buckwild]

Crisp you are o so wrong. JM might be mafia but you are so wrong about me.
I get feelings from the way people post. Its the language they use in their posts and their convictions. Nacho's posts were the strong posts he usually does minus the being an asshole. I had a good feeling he was town and I was right. You think I'm scum cause I can read people?

[CrisP]

To hammer, scum would have to ask me to claim. so, they wouldn't be able to auto hammer anyways.

What is this? First it's not proper english, second it's false cause anyone can just hammer (very scummy I agree) and third what are you supposed to claim?

Some people have a different way of coming off to people than others.

You're just rude.

But when more experienced people try to tell you something ABOUT YOUR PLAY, then you should probably take note.

The best way to learn is to make mistakes. You would probably improve more if you looked at your own play instead of trying to teach others. I try to factor in what everyone else says, sometimes I manage sometiems I don't, in your case just the way you phrase it makes it almost impossible as far as I am concerned.

I'm not the mod, I'm telling you, and anyone else in this game that if I'm lynched without declaring intent hammer, and giving me a chance, then they need to be auto lynched tomorrow.

This looks like psychological intimidation, something a townie wouldn't really need.

From what I've got, your case on me was because nacho was defending me so much.(he's dead and town) I tried to force feed nacho'a death to goodmorning. (I didn't, I asked her why she thought he was dead. What's wrong with that? What's wrong with pressuring a player???) then, I don't even know. You really need to work on your game, as I've already stated.

This is nonsence, I don't think it's worth it to continue stating my points, a valid strategy on your side could be try to make this a giant wall of text so the real points get lost amidst it. If the rest of town is confused about why I'm voting you they can ask me and I'll make a summary

[jmo16mla]

Continue to act that way. PLEASE.

[CrisP]

Crisp you are o so wrong.

This is entirely possible, show me you are town and I'll try to correct my mistake.

You think I'm scum cause I can read people?

I think if you read people well and state it with certainty there is a chance you already know their alignment. Of course you might just have a lot of good reads as well, that's not the only thing I said about why I think you are mafia.

[Yiu113]

Alright, now that I've finished my Saturday activities, let's put in another post.

-312: The scummiest person, other than AA for lurking(Which, according to some, isn't really a scum tell in this forum) would be JMO, who, at the time I had made my post, as at L-3. As I did not want the mafia to be able to hammer him quickly, I held off on my vote.

-313: I play mafia fairly often on another site, though the mafias are usually different in many ways. As I said, days last 3 days on average, usually plurality is the voting style rather than majority, and modkills are much more common than replacements due to there not being enough players for several replacements.

-The entirety of JMO being at L-1: Lots of things that just don't make sense from JMO that I'm reading. While it would turn out a bit scummy to hammer a player that turned up town, it doesn't necessarily mean they're scum. Due to the fact that anyone can vote you, regardless of if they're town or mafia, they can hammer you and be perfectly innocent. In addition to that, who's to say that one or both of the mafia aren't already voting you? While at this point those voting you don't look massively scummy, doesn't mean they aren't simply mafia that looks like town.

Once again, going to hold off on my vote for further discussion. If I really feel like JMO or anyone else is being scummy enough to warrant it, I shall place it.

[CrisP]

Now, we have two slots in which we know nothing about and I would surely like to get some information from them.

This is the only valid point I see coming from JM, I agree that the more information we get the better, so for now:

UNVOTE:

[jmo16mla]

Now, we have two slots in which we know nothing about and I would surely like to get some information from them.

This is the only valid point I see coming from JM, I agree that the more information we get the better, so for now:

UNVOTE:

why the change? you had everything planned out earlier...

[CrisP]

Because lynching you later along the day vs lynching you now is strictly better, regardless of your alignment.

[CrisP]

Let's leave the troll / mafia alone for a moment.

The fact that BW didn't change his vote on JM is either honest town or good mafia play, you have to be pretty cold blooded to stay put with a vote on your partner when just a random vote from an Arc or a Yui, which you know nothing about, could practically end the game for you, and ISOing Buck shows me he is more of an emotional than a logical player, I have seen plenty of times where he came up with reads out of the blue and he was correct but I also saw him making logical mistakes when fossing people, I don't think that's how he would act.

That's one of the reasons I told them I had "figured it out" as JM puts it. BW also had pretty good reads last game so even the fact that his reads have been good or appear good to me this game as well is not such a strong tell, my post 323 was designed to pu them under enormous pressure if they were mafia in the hope they would crack.

It does not look like they did, JM did his usual crap about insulting the accuser like RM said he does when he is town and as you can see if you ISO him, and BW also responded like I would expect him to if he were town.

I think there is a good chance

they are both town

, I still wouldn't mind killing JM off because he is a liability

Now that both GM and JM have been pressured, I think it's important to check the lurker slots because I don't want us to get boxed into thinking it's either JM and BW or GM and BR.

Yui you stated:

I did not want the mafia to be able to hammer him quickly, I held off on my vote.

While it's a reasonable worry that if you put someone at L-2 mafia can kill him off, why would they do so quickly? If they quick hammer and he flips town, then isn't the game over for them? I could understand your point if we were at mylo or lylo but not here, that's why I asked you if you played mafia often, or do you think after the quick hammer they would manage to talk themselves out of getting lynched?

[CrisP]

Also

VOTE: ArcAngel9

for being active, while on V/LA in this game, not having posted here other than to prod/dodge since she replaced DC.

[Yiu113]

Crisp, I honestly do believe that if they pulled off the quick hammer they would be able to talk themselves out of it. While I'm not entirely certain how likely it would be here, things like that are fairly common where I play.

[CrisP]

Sounds reasonable, BW what do you get from the way he answered?

Yui to get you to talk a bit I'd like to ask you some questions, if you don't mind.

- Why do you think your slot cleared JMO day 1?

- What do you think about JM's, BW's and my recent interaction and the conclusions I draw from it?

- Why do you think mafia isn't (quick) hammering JM?

- Did you like GM's arguments when I FOS'ed her? Why did you or didn't you?

- What's your stance on VCA (vote count analysis) and talking about NK's?

Thanks for the reply!

[jmo16mla]

Again. Why do you think mafia would quikhammer? They would only bring attention to themselves. You don't listen.

[CrisP]

Again. Why do you think mafia would quikhammer? They would only bring attention to themselves. You don't listen.

I agree but that does not mean we are right, it's you who is not listening: my point was that both of you (JM and BW) did not even think about it which was a possible mafia slip, because mafia would not even consider it, at least it looked convincing enough for me to try and claim you were screwed, post the mistakes you would have made as mafia and see how you reacted.

I'm more interested in hearing Yui113's thoughts at the moment, for instance the fact he thinks you can get away with it, if it is his genuine opinion, makes it less likely he is mafia, otherwise you would have been lynched.