NY 167: COMPLETELY NORMAL Mafia (GAME OVER)

[goodmorning]

why am i awake at 3am

SERIOUSLY GUYS

Votecount 1.59

orcinus_theoriginal [L-2] - PeregrineV, likeabauss, Hermy, RadiantCowbells, MVP, yessiree, Sakura Hana

caledfwitch [L-3] - MC Maraca, Guyett, Cephrir, sangres, orcinus_theoriginal, Angry Frat BROs

likeabauss [L-8] - JacobSavage

Guyett [L-8] - caledfwitch

Not Voting [2] - TheIrishPope, Toomai

With 17 alive, it takes

9

to lynch. The day will end in (expired on 2013-11-20 09:39:00)

[TheIrishPope]

Unvote orcinus please

[RadiantCowbells]

TIP, if you vote FratBro we have a deal.

[MC Maraca]

Unvote orcinus please

Finally a sane fucker. Hi tippy.

[TheIrishPope]

If you're scum, I swear

And I'm not voting AP and BRO any time soon

[RadiantCowbells]

Then we're at an impasse.

[MC Maraca]

Then we're at an impasse.

Do you only have those two scumreads?

[Cephrir]

I read some pages with words on them but my opinion didn't change.

[MVP]

@AFB: actually I'm in V/LA longer than ns.

@MCM: you forgot to account the possibility of fake cop "clearing" his partner while the real cop doesn't exist and bringing the shitload of wifom to this village.

[Sakura Hana]

Unvote
Vote: caled

[Toomai]

Vote: caledfwitch

[L-1]

I still do not agree with this lynch; the wagon sprang up rather quickly and seems to exist for no reason other than to be a counterwagon to orcinus. But at this point it's either that or orcinus, and I'm not voting orcinus.

Deadline is in less than 2 days. caledfwitch should claim.

[TheIrishPope]

Wow that was so scummy.
If I'm alive tomorrow, I've got shit to say.

[likeabauss]

Toomai, Sakura, come onto Orcinus. I don't think we should make Caled claim and/or lynch her.

[likeabauss]

If you don't trust my Rank read, just look at his behavior. Reread his ISO, look at the deviations in play as things progressed. Look at post claim play, certainly not that of town.

[likeabauss]

Guyett? Back me up on Orcinus. All my scum reads are on the Caled wagon. Isn't that a sign?

[RadiantCowbells]

If Caled gets lynched today and flips town, you're implicitly giving me permission to decide the next 3 lynches.

[likeabauss]

Votecount 1.25

Guyett [L-3] - PeregrineV, Sakura Hana,

orcinus_theoriginal

, TheIrishPope, Toomai,

Angry Frat BROs

JacobSavage [L-4] - sangres,

MC Maraca

,

orcinus_theoriginal

, Cephrir, Hermy

JacobSavage [L-4] - sangres,

MC Maraca

, Cephrir, Hermy,

Angry Frat BROs

RadiantCowbells [L-4] -

MC Maraca

, TheIrishPope, RadiantCowbells, Cephrir,

orcinus_theoriginal

caledfwitch [L-3] -

MC Maraca

, Guyett, Cephrir, sangres,

orcinus_theoriginal

,

Angry Frat BROs

4 potentially viable wagons for today, outside of FratBros and Orcinus for today. Look at who is on most of them. This isn't rocket science. Orcinus has been on ALL of them. FratBros and McMaraca on 3 each.

[likeabauss]

Angry Frat BROs [L-4] - likeabauss, Toomai, Hermy, RadiantCowbells, PeregrineV

orcinus_theoriginal [L-1] - Sakura Hana, sangres, Guyett, PeregrineV, Toomai, likeabauss, yessiree, TheIrishPope

orcinus_theoriginal [L-2] - PeregrineV, likeabauss, Hermy, RadiantCowbells, MVP, yessiree, Sakura Hana

Wagons for FratBros and Orcinus above. NOTICE who isn't on ANY OF THOSE WAGONS?

Angry Frat BROs

orcinus_theoriginal

MC Maraca

Doesn't that strike anybody else as odd? Out of place? They've basically been ALL about lynching anybody else, except for FratBros and Orcinus.

[MVP]

So let me get this straight.

Bauss puts his ass on the line and calls out his Mafia Bro for being scum, and Orci decides to claim cop (which isn't an unlikely scum claim).

Cabd freaks out, misreps Caled, and decides to policy lynch her instead of trying to get a good scum-lynch.

Everyone on the Caled wagon is bad and should feel bad.

Orci must be one hell of a scum-role or scum player to be getting this kind of protection from his scum-team.

~ Pete

[Guyett]

VOTE: orc

[Guyett]

Not happy with the caled wagon

[RadiantCowbells]

He's most likely a valuable maf PR.

Maybe a role cop or ninja.

[MVP]

This is a method of dealing with cop claims that come early in games that works really well. It's adapted mostly from a player's notes on my homesite (Her name is gaia) but several other players use it; most recently, prohawk used it to great success to deal with the cop claim and counterclaims from Notscience and Sven in Skype mafia.

1. When two players claim the role of Cop, they are lynch immune for at least one Day, No Vote (Vote: Nobody) should be made that Day. (Cabd note: I prefer a PL on day one)


2. When more than two players claim the role of Cop, lynch any one of them immediately. You are more likely to lynch scum than town. Then, play out the previous dot point. If you lynch the Cop, the other two are scum.


3. When more than two players claim the role of Cop, and then players retract their claims, players who retracted are null reads.


4. When multiple results give a Guilty result, the named player is considered Guilty beyond all doubt.

5. When multiple results give a Clear result, the named player is Clear beyond all doubt and should be considered so for the rest of the game except when a Godfather may exist, Clear results must be considered null or tentative.

6. When two Cops claim Roleblocked at any time, a Roleblocker is said to exist.


Fact of the matter is, a counterclaim would shift this into a prisoner's dilemma for the scumteam, no matter which of the claim or the counterclaim is not legitimate. (I personally substitute policy lynches for a no lynch but eh) If anyone wants me to explain why this works I can but I think it is kind of self explanatory when we go at it. Fact of the matter is, I'm not lynching a cop claim on day one when it'll work itself out at night by itself, and if he is a cop we've denied ourselves the chance at results.

The point of leaving the cops alive is that someone gets killed and the cops get more results. So when you do eventually flip one, more results are available, more analysis can be done etc. Plus it can force the mafia to confirm a Townie. And it means that one mafia vote is basically forced to vote with Town which can help and also be analysed. There are more setup-specific reasons why it's best to keep Cops alive for a while and in particular in closed setups, Cops should always be alive.

I'm looking this over and I think it works even if orcinus does end up being a fake cop and a real one is hiding somewhere. (For the record, I think he's legit and you guys are letting scum push a cop lynch)

Dear Cabd,

Your theory about this slot advocates a(n)

( ) insightful

(X) interesting

( ) uncommon ( ) crazy

approach to reading it. Your method will not work. Here is why it won't work. (One or more of the following may apply to your particular idea, and it may have other flaws which vary from player to player)

(X) Scum can use it as a blank check to hide.

(X) It is just as likely to get false positives.

( ) Your solution speculates as to motives not apparent to everyone
( ) Your theory requires us to treat you as confirmed town

(X) My read disagrees with the slot being "obvscum" or "obvtown"

(X) WIFOM says the player would have known you'd do this if it was scum

(X) Anyone could fake the result they want since it's only their word

(X) This is a closed set-up
(X) It's more likely to fish out town-roles

Specifically, your plan fails to account for

( ) Lack of confirmed townies
( ) Timezones
( ) The claim from that slot

(X) Ease of planning a response in advance assuming scum daychat

( ) Asshats
( ) Nobody trusts you
( ) Unpopularity of new gambits

(X) The existence of already successful scumhunting tactics

(X) Susceptibility of newbtown to fall for it as well

( ) Willingness of players to give you a chance
( ) People who hate your play
( ) Scum safeclaims given by mod

and the following philosophical objections may also apply:

(X) It could just as easily be WIFOM

(X) Ideas similar to yours are easy to come up with, yet none have ever
been shown reliable

( ) Any scheme based on opt-out is unacceptable
( ) Flavor Gambits suck

(X) Why should we have to trust you and your methods?

( ) Incompatibility with the current player base
( ) Feel-good measures do nothing to solve the problem

(X) Revealing info does nothing but assist scum

(X) They don't deserve a slow and painful death

( ) Killing them that way is not slow and painful enough

Furthermore, this is what I think about you:

( ) Sorry dude, but I don't think it's a viable tell.

(X) This is a stupid idea, and you're a stupid person for suggesting it.

( ) Nice try, assh0le! I'm going to find out where you live and burn your
house down!

With Love,
Pete Rose

[Cabd]

I'll admit, varsoon, you made me smile.

[Cabd]

Phoneposting, GM, will quote these as maraca later I promise.