Mini 1516: Mafia in Space (Game Over)

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Day 1, Votecount 18

Street Hassle [1]

Kid A

Kid A [0]

TvK [0]

My Milked Eek [4]

Herself, Squirrel Girl, Garmr, ICEninja

LolWagons [0]

Regfan [0]

ICEninja [0]

Garmr [1]

My Milked Eek

Squirrel Girl [0]

The Silver Bard [1]

TvK

Wake88 [0]

Herself [2]

The Silver Bard, havingfitz

havingfitz [3]

Street Hassle, LolWagons, Regfan

Not Voting [1]

- Wake88

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is on November 23rd at 7:30 AM PST or in (expired on 2013-11-23 07:30:00)

[Garmr]

Lynch the milk guys come on.

[ICEninja]

Squirrel, maybe you feel differently about being scum but being strung up sucks and is difficult to get out of when you're actually scum (at least for me, I've been the day 1 lynch most of the games I'm scum in). The best thing he could do for his team was to get out, and honestly I wouldn't be surprised if his day talk buddies were yelling at him to GTFO, as considering the scum perspective that's exactly what I would have been doing.

If he was town he should have been excited to scum hunt with a group of players he liked, but instead of he flaked out of this game. Seriously, look at the time line of it too. Post 390, November 15th a little after 8:00 AM according to my time stamp. He clearly states that he's going to do more later. Less than an hour later fitz comes in and drops a vote on him. 6 and a half hours later, he is replaced. You also need to factor in TSO sending the PM to mod, mod reading it, then sending the PM to LolWagons to tell him he's in and send the role PM and make sure everyone is on board so the request to replace out was probably a fair bit less than that timeline wise.

You can't look at that without being sketched out.

[The Silver Bard]

I am on board with My Milked Eek lynch. Mainly because the read list on 530 is full of nullreads and his reasoning isn't good. Also 7 posts the entire game gives me a "scum struggling finding anything to post"-feel.

Also I think there is an interesting link between MME and havingfitz, so figuring out MME might help figuring out havingfitz.

Unvote

VOTE: My Milked Eek

[My Milked Eek]

Hold off on voting me for now. You can vote me all you want in a few hours, but let me get my next post in before you do (just saw SB vote in the preview edit).
And no, it's not a post to discourage my bandwagon, just a few thoughts and such and then you can continue on your merry way.

It would just be a shame if I was typing it out and you'd go ahead and lynch me before I'd be able to post it. You can lynch me afterwards if you see fit.

[Squirrel Girl]

You're at L-2 and it's killed us to get that far. I am guessing you're safe.

@ICE - Yes, I see that. I'm just having trouble separating it from the potential of him just realizing he was overwhelmed, or maybe he was town and knew he couldn't be active enough to save his slot and thought a replacement would help. I guess his scumbuddies could have freaked and yelled at him when he went from L-5 to L-4, but that seems a little straw graspy to me. I don't want to take LolWagons and pack him up in my tree for the winter, but the slot isn't oozing the scummy for me either.

[My Milked Eek]

You're at L-2 and it's killed us to get that far. I am guessing you're safe.

Probably, but you never know, wouldn't be the first case of a sped up lynch I've seen. Wanted to make sure I could get my post in before something happened.

[The Silver Bard]

I can do that Bard, but it'll be a big post.

I don't mind big posts, so please do.

[My Milked Eek]

So, to avoid wasting time to run this wagon up to L-1 and waiting for a claim: nothing special here.
You can go ahead and lynch me, I played pretty bad and even if I stayed alive after day 1 (somehow?) I would be a liability, always staying on people's radars.
I couldn't get into this game as I had hoped, missing that first week was crucial and I never really liked reading through 15-20 pages of text.


I'll just leave you guys with the following:

Sigh I am going to sleep. If you haven't noticed town can't agree on anything the most a wagon has got is 3 votes. Also your a pretty common scum read between most of us. I thought we might have our first real wagon. But there's so much bickering.

I was going to quote a few garmr's posts, but let me post "Why garmr is scum" in my next post, it'll make this post more readable. And less wall-y.

MME is your town read on me based on my play or the reactions of others to my predecessor's play?

I don't see how the reactions to TSO's play would affect my judgement. I don't get the scum reads on TSO. They shold be null at most. He clearly overestimated his concurrency abilities. I can't remember who was pushing TSO hard as scum, but I don't ike that. I believe that was ICE (correct me if wrong), but that would go against my town read of him.
So, it's based on your play. Mainly gut, but I really like this post.

6) I don't like Milkeds Post 530 at all, the entire "What's the case on Orestes and Fitz" bit while sticking them in "In between" reads as insanely scummy given that a great deal of the the entire threads conversation have revolved around the cases on those two

(1)

. Don't like his read on me either, the "Scum-reads on lurkers vs Wanting lurkers to be replaced is contradictory" makes no sense whatsoever, especially if he's claiming to have read the thread, taken a break to think about it all and then got back to it; The reads on the lurkers are severely weaker than on active players, replacements allow more content, more content allows stronger reads.

(2)

The scum read on Kid A also looks like a "Push the weaker player" one rather than a genuine scum read.

(3)

1) HF: Call it being disinterested. I don't see scum in havingfitz' early posts (which were critiqued later on) and I wasn't convinced by any of the early posts against HF afaik, so I couldn't be bothered. Orestes: I just can't see the case against orestes. I vaguely remember something about him being drunk that was blown way out of proportion. -I just went back to orestes ISO just to see if anything else sticks out and I really, really can't get anything else but a town read on him, so I don't really get what the case is on orestes. I suggest everyone to go back to his ISO (it's only like 5 posts).

2) Chill out dude. No need to overreact. I found a remark on your ISO that I wanted to share. I found (and still do) it to be a bit contradictory. The exact quote is "The two don't exclude each other (...), but it does feel a bit contradictory.". Are you trying to posture a bit? Making sure your stance is known before you enter the wagon/lynch later on?

3) A weak scum is still scum. From his ISO:

"

weird hydra interaction, post #61 reads like it was written by someone who wanted to sound town and not someone who wanted to explain their point of view

"
explaining his vote on streethassle.

"

and tvk i didnt read much into the post at the time but while rereading i noticed that the whole "if i was scum I would be posting like this guy" thing is exactly the sort of thing an experienced scum player would say, it plants the idea that as scum he always posts cautiously and since he isn't posting cautiously now he must be town. I don't understand why a town player would feel the need to add the whole self-reading angle into the post - i think a town player would just say he didnt like the cautious phrasing and that it was noncommittal and scummy

"
this wording is really, really off. It's a lot of words, but nothing of value. He even semi-concludes that TvK is scum but doesn't follow through with his vote. Non-committal and egging on TvK.

"

why would anyone with a town win condition identify two possible scum and then not use their vote to help kill these possible scum, i can understand voting the early wagon if you have nothing else to go on but Orestes had two better people to vote and still chose the safe vote that draws no attention to him

"
his explanation for his orestes vote, which is the VERY SAME situation as with his street hassle vote (and his TvK post).

And there's also the fact that he hasn't voiced his opinion on anyone else but these three (which happen to all be scum, conveniently) and even then it's superficial as hell. You could say the same of my famous and well known and critically acclaimed #530, but I'm here providing more content while he hasn't elaborated on his votes during the past two weeks. Make of it what you will, but that doesn't seem too town to me.

Good to see some content from Eek.  Do the peple on the Eek wagon have reasoning beyond lurking (and no...I haven't checked)?

You'd be a fool not to find that post scummy, if not, you should find it between bad and lazy. Are you preparing for my flip to tell everyone where they went wrong?

Nothing here about what justifies having us as strong town. Just "annoyance" over our scumhunting approach.

I don't like to give reasons for my town reads unless I find it necessary. The meta playstyle is a remark I had (just like with regfan) and doesnt detract from my opinion of your alignment at all.

This looks like the sort of reads list that I struggle to avoid putting together when I'm scum. With so little substantive stance, it will be easy to make tactical adjustments. But the lack of stance is also a lack of stakes in the ground, showing how he's putting pictures together and processing the thread data.

Well, then it's a good thing that I'm not you, isn't it?

I'm pretty happy to see a MME lynch at this point. "Go ahead and vote me" is almost always a scum gambit. No one wants them to vote them but only scum benefits from having the impression given that they don't care who votes for them. Also, if he's read virtually any of my posts at all he'd know why my vote has been so stubbornly on Wagons.

That quote of mine was a reply to:
"

If people are going to continue to ignore how intensely scummy TSO's replacing out of this game was, I'll very likely vote Milked.

" and I meant it like: "I can't see how anyone else would find TSO scummy, so you'd better place that vote on me then". I should have posted that elaborated post, but I didn't. Ha, seeing this makes me laugh about my introduction paragraph.

I thought Eek was gone. He's not though, and is showing that he too can provide his own insightful contributions to this game. Reasoning for his Town reads on SG and ICE would be nice. Input on Herself would also be swell. Unfortunately his bit about my large posts is easily dismissed, because he mentioned nothing about Regfan's large walls, which means his bit was either selective or he hasn't really been reading the thread. That too deserves an explanation. I agree with him a bit about TvK leaning Scum. Also, his reasoning about T S O replacing out because he overreached and was in 11 games is sound, in my opinion, because I had been in ten games at once and was overwhelmed with it and everything pertaining to real-life. T S O is not scummy for replacing out due to biting off more than he could chew.

If I'm alive in +-12 hours I'll make a post/reply to this post. If work is slow that is, else it'll be a bit later.

T S O is not scummy for replacing out due to biting off more than he could chew.

The point isn't that T S O bit off more than he can chew. The point is in post 338 he explicitly states that he wants to play this game and that he's going to be dropping other games. Then for quite a few posts he continues to play this game. Right when the heat is turned up on him to a noticeable degree is exactly when he disappears, without anything.. No "sorry I tried but I just can't keep up" or excuse about being too busy IRL or anything.

As I said before, he knew he was goosed and got out.

But no one except fitz seems to recognize that so I guess we're lynching Eek (or fitz, but I definitely prefer Eek).

Also Bard, you seriously need to learn how to only quote relevant sections of a post.

No, that is exactly the point. He was in over his head with 11 games. He might have dropped a few games, but this one was going nowhere and was on page 14-15 when he made that post you linked. If I were in his place, I'd be dropping this game too in favor of other games, regardless of alignment. This really is a null point to push so hard.

As a side note, MME completely ignoring the case against fitz is really

bad

lazy. But I believe Reg took care of that already.

Eek is definitely my favorite lynch who hasn't been replaced though. I still shudder when I read the reasons for her list of reads, they're awful.

I'm a dude. But yes, you're right in that my list was superficial (and thus awful).

[The Silver Bard]

I don't understand why so many wants to lynch havingfitz really. I am leaning town on him. I just got one question for you havingfitz:

What happend with leaning town on Garmr and Kid A in 187 to having: want to lynch on Garmr and null-some suspicions on Kid A in 566. I see that you did write something there, but could you elaborate?

[The Silver Bard]

Eek, have any of your reads changed since your readpost in #530?

If you get lynched and you are town updated reads would help alot. Thanks.

[My Milked Eek]

I'd bump TvK a bit to the town side of my in betweeners. A bit because he also sees garmscum. I don't like that he hasn't posted anything about my #530. Sure he posted his readlist with me as leaning scum, but that feels really cautious, you know. I should be right up there, next to you on his list. Look, the way I see it is that I'm as good as lynched so I might as well offer some POV opinion for you guys. He's being really safe with his opinion on me. I'd like to get more on this from TvK.

I reread orestes and I really get a townie vibe from him. I haven't read all your posts during the past 100 posts as it was a quotefest with SG and I didn't feel it was needed for my "quick-before-I-get-voted-on" post. So, nothing has changed aside from a more solid read on orestes. I'll reread the last 100 posts (or more) to see if that read can be pulled through onto you or not.

Garmr is actually scum. I'd rather see him lynched than... well me. I'll get on that garmscum post.

Wake/robot thing, I still ignored what that robot did. I agree with SG when she says that he uses a lot of words, but doesn't say anything. Like regfan, he didn't really comment on me as well. Not that I'm egocentric, but if I'm going to be the lynch today, I'd rather have everyone comment on me. Especially when his content has been too little and his noise too much.

The rest hasn't changed.

[Wake1]

I haven't been able to contribute as much as I wanted today, but am now utilizing the draft system to make life easier when making posts on short time. What I will say at this moment is that I'm not in favor of Eek's wagon at the moment, based on my perception of him being Town.

[ICEninja]

Also I think there is an interesting link between MME and havingfitz, so figuring out MME might help figuring out havingfitz.

I was thinking this exact thing as well.

I'll respond to MME's posts in a bit.

[Street Hassle]

Well, then it's a good thing that I'm not you, isn't it?

"When I'm scum, I try to avoid posting in this scummy-as-fuck manner that you just posted"

"It's a good thing I'm not you, isn't it"

Hmm.

So, I'm going to (wait for it) meta dive to see if you actually post reads like this when you're town.

[My Milked Eek]

Lol.

I wouldn't bother. My meta is old. I think I did a game a year and a half ago, but before that... I think it's been three years? But sure, if you can squeeze it in during the next two irl days, go for it.

[My Milked Eek]

Well, then it's a good thing that I'm not you, isn't it?

"When I'm scum, I try to avoid posting in this scummy-as-fuck manner that you just posted"

"It's a good thing I'm not you, isn't it"

Quote came out wrong apparently, meh.

[ICEninja]

There isn't much in Eek's posts worth responding to, really.

I'm a dude.

My bad there are lots of females in this game and you have an avatar I would associate with a female having.

But yes, you're right in that my list was superficial (and thus awful).

The fact that you didn't update it makes this as good as a scum confession we're going to get.

All aboard the My Milked Eek train.

[ICEninja]

This Street/Eek interaction feels really weird to me. I can't quite put my finger on it.

I'll read more in to it after we have a flip.

[My Milked Eek]

Are you sure you're not just tunneling way too hard here? Nothing to respond to besides that I'm a dude? I don't believe you. You're lying.

You mentioned two people interacting with me as odd. What happens when I flip town? Is Fitz town/scum? What's odd about the interaction with HS?

I understand the pressure of a deadline, but you're tunneling hard (on me and on TSO) and it's really off putting and damaging the town's play.

[ICEninja]

You said very little directed towards me, and nothing you said gave me any indication that I'm wrong about you. In fact you completely fessing up to making a superficial reads list without giving us a non-superficial reads list, which all but confirms my suspicion. What more do you want me to say?

You've hardly scum hunted worth a shit. You've given a couple half assed reasons for voting Garmr and that's it. If you were town you'd be giving us reasons to lynch someone else instead (or at the least, reasons to lynch someone tomorrow after you flip town). But you aren't, you're responding to people and saying things like "go ahead and vote me" and "I'm a safe lynch" and "I admit my reads were

fabriated

superficial."

You and fitz are competing wagons. The fact that scum is probably scattered about voting useless votes to run us up to deadline suggests that one or both wagons are town fueled. If you flip town I'm going to take a hard look at fitz, as I find it unlikely that both wagons are on town (especially since most of the players I'm suspicious of have dutifully avoided both wagons). If you're scum then you've got a buddy or two pushing fitz. Even if you flip town, we're finding scum based on your corpse. If you're scum we'll probably find another anyways. Lynching you is the right move.

Street isn't scum hunting you how I'd expect him to. If you're town I doubt it means anything but if you're scum then I may have to take the paranoia up a notch.

I'd say letting town flounder about until 24 hours before deadline would be much more damaging to town. I'm not even tunneling on you, I've had 4 players that I've been OK lynching. You just end up being the right one to lynch. The fact that we have (what looks very much like) a VT claim from you makes me feel safer about lynching you, too. It's unlikely that you're a scum PR but I'm fine hitting a goon today.

[My Milked Eek]

You said very little directed towards me, and nothing you said gave me any indication that I'm wrong about you. In fact you completely fessing up to making a superficial reads list without giving us a non-superficial reads list, which all but confirms my suspicion. What more do you want me to say?

I didn't "fess up to making a superficial read list". I just didn't go into detail on the reasoning, hence the superficialness, the reads still stand. Stop twisting what I've said or haven't said into what you want.

You've hardly scum hunted worth a shit.

With more than half of D1 in a VLA situation and another day or two needed to read the thread (and halfass it) I don't really get what you expect from me in two days.

You've given a couple half assed reasons for voting Garmr and that's it. If you were town you'd be giving us reasons to lynch someone else instead (or at the least, reasons to lynch someone tomorrow after you flip town). But you aren't, you're responding to people and saying things like "go ahead and vote me"

(1)

and "I'm a safe lynch"

(2)

and "I admit my reads were

fabriated

superficial."

(3)

1) misunderstood by you/miscommunicated by me as I said before
2) where did I say this? are you arguing this statement?
3) see above. my reasoning was superficially explained.
3b) stop putting words into my mouth. you're not helping yourself there.

And I'm getting to posting on garm, I've just been distracted the past hour or so. And I'm heading to bed right now (I was, but then I saw your stupid post and I had to). I can't wait to see you turning this into a scumtell.

You and fitz are competing wagons. The fact that scum is probably scattered about voting useless votes to run us up to deadline suggests that one or both wagons are town fueled. If you flip town I'm going to take a hard look at fitz, as I find it unlikely that both wagons are on town (especially since most of the players I'm suspicious of have dutifully avoided both wagons). If you're scum then you've got a buddy or two pushing fitz. Even if you flip town, we're finding scum based on your corpse. If you're scum we'll probably find another anyways. Lynching you is the right move.

Sure, sounds nice in theory, but I'm not convinced that when I flip town, fitz will be scum. Sorry. I'm not convinced of his wagon.
I find your thoughts about wagon population to be rather simplistic and, as we say in Dutch, short through the corner.

Street isn't scum hunting you how I'd expect him to. If you're town I doubt it means anything but if you're scum then I may have to take the paranoia up a notch.

So, let me get this straight. Street according to you is some mafiascum prodigy (if you can spin my words, I can spin yours), yet you don't think he can easily bus a scumpartner? He (or they) have posted a few suspicions of me before, they could have easily continued down that path. If anything, that's a townie behavior. I still don't get what you were trying to achieve by noting that.

I'd say letting town flounder about until 24 hours before deadline would be much more damaging to town. I'm not even tunneling on you, I've had 4 players that I've been OK lynching. You just end up being the right one to lynch. The fact that we have (what looks very much like) a VT claim from you makes me feel safer about lynching you, too. It's unlikely that you're a scum PR but I'm fine hitting a goon today.

You aren't sure that I claimed VT?


Want to hear what happened day 1?
You entered a mindset of "there's a scum in the lurkers group" quite early in the day. You pushed this idea quite a few times (instead of letting the mod handle it). I posted (paraphrased) what I pm'd to the mod after he instructed me to post it here to you guys. And people overanalyzed it (it was a shit post, tbh). I don't think it mattered whatever I would have posted sunday (? was it sunday?): "I would have taken pointers from my scumbuddies via daychat" - Pretty sure it was you who said this before -just looked and yep, it was you.

Next to this, you've been chasing TSO for quite some time over a ridiculous reason. And you. Just. Won't. Let . It. Go.

There's also the constant word twisting.



Someone brought up the analogy of a dude running around the thread with a red flag out of his ass. Well you're his brother with a smoke machine up there.

I'm starting to wonder why I even pinned you as a townread in the first place, but that might just be because you're riding my ass which is giving me the creeps. I'll let it sink in overnight.

[ICEninja]

Street isn't scum hunting you how I'd expect him to. If you're town I doubt it means anything but if you're scum then I may have to take the paranoia up a notch.

So, let me get this straight. Street according to you is some mafiascum prodigy (if you can spin my words, I can spin yours), yet you don't think he can easily bus a scumpartner? He (or they) have posted a few suspicions of me before, they could have easily continued down that path. If anything, that's a townie behavior. I still don't get what you were trying to achieve by noting that.

I'm pretty sure this was a scum slip. And now I'm going to be INCREDIBLY paranoid of Street.

[Regfan]

Woo, all my exams for the year are over! Proper catch up time.

Squirrel; re your town read on Having in Post 559 I do agree that his response is “Genuinely frustrated” and that he thinks the case is “Bad” but I’m reading that as ‘Scum caught for the wrong reasons’ rather than a town tell. I think his push on Herself is opportunistic and trying to work on ICE’s misread on the slot to generate a wagon. Do me a favour, re-read the entire Fitz vs Herself argument and tell me if you think that Fitz’s motivation behind it is 1) To push on Herself due to his scum read 2) To get a better read on Herself or 3) Solely to attempt to appeal to them that they’re wrong about him while discrediting them and the case. I see a lot more scum motivation than town motivation there.

Garmr; if I’m understanding your Post 560 correctly the largest thing holding Street and Herself from being moderate or strong town is their interaction and you thinking it’s “Faked” because I don’t see them interacting as partners anything like that, Empire was legitimately frustrated and peeved at the Herself slot that he stood back for the game for a bit, he wouldn't do that about a partners posting or as scum at all.

Fitz; re your Post 566, my issue is that you're claiming to

not know or care

about what Herself's town reads and thoughts are but you're calling the slot scum and voting them; if you think the slots scum you'd have read their posts (The entirety of them) to attempt to understand where they're coming from with everything but you haven't, you're pushing them solely for "Having a case against me" which is massively more scum motivated. This'll be interesting though; Can you explain your town-reads on Miked and Bard in some detail for me.

Awesome, Streets thoughts on Milked in Post 589 mirrored mine.

Wake; re your Post 605, I can understand where Squirrels coming from (Wagoning in the RVS section can be helpful, I believe it's CES who always throws his vote on the largest RVS wagon regardless of the reasoning since pressure generates content which gets the game going and wagoning "later" in the game is very much a situational based one - sheeping solid reasoning can be a town tell, sheeping iffy reasoning can be a scum tell) and about her saying your whole posts have "nothing" and are "huge" I again find it understandable. Your posts are so huge and so many of them that I had to postpone reading one due to the length of it, I wouldn't say they"re "content-less" though, just not concise and I'm guilty of doing the same thing too (Something we should both be working on) and I think you're focusing on things that aren't big tells and some semantics.

I actually really like Garmrs Post 620, especially the Fitz interaction (If Fitz is scum this dude is town, same vice versa).

Up to the top of 26 now. Taking a break for lunch then I'll finish this page and do the Bard ISO.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

bump for vc