A uPick of Ice & Fire - Day 12 - #REKT?

[Magua]

So.

I hate Alchemist.

I hate Benmage.

I gather that I'm going to hate ooba.

Sadly, any (or even more sadly, all?) of them could be town, because I quite simply believe that Benmage is this fucking awful, and I am very close to believing it for Alchemist. ooba would be a surprise, but it's near Christmas, so woo-motherfucking-surprises ahoy.

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SafetyDance is the only one who's posts I'm even coming close to liking.

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@Alfred:

Kindly explain your thought process for me, as I cannot find it. You're both good players. You know Benmage is a shit player with an inflated superego and a penchant for stupid shit. Even if you weren't aware of it, personally, which I honestly find to be doubtful, it was said by enough people yesterday (myself, Tierce) that I would highly suspect Llamarble, at least, of going, "Hmmmmmmmmmmmm," but nope, what I see is "Hey, guys, I'm going to get Garruk close to being hammered, oh, he's not hated anymore?, I'll continue to get him close to being hammered, mind you, I don't trust Benmage, oh shit, Garruk was town? That wily Benmage led us all astray!"

And I don't believe that, coming from either of your heads.

@ooba:

Kindly explain how Benmage's stupid-ass-holy-shit-I-hope-he's-scum-because-I-don't-want-to-believe-people-are-this-stupid fake guilty has scum motivation on it, whereas your stupid-ass-holy-shit-I-hope-he's-scum-because-I-don't-want-to-believe-people-are-this-stupid does not?

Super serious question, because if your argument is "lol Benmage-scum saw me doing something super shitty and stupid that should've been stamped out in Road to Rome, and get away with it, and then did it himself," then we need to have some words.

@Benmage:

Do you ever plan on not being a complete douchecanoe? Srs question. It's like you're a living trust-tell-in-reverse-who-sabotages-games-as-town-to-get-off-easy-as-scum, and you're proud of it, so kindly explain what the hell your thought process[1] was, kthx.

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Massclaim is dumb. Near as I gather, all town claims so far have been met with, "Lol stupid fakeclaim die scum oh shit they were town," then repeat, helped by ooba and Benmage. Given the no role flip, limited shot setup, I have zero conviction that we'd be trapping any scum in a lie and so it'd just let them know more of the setup with no gain for us.

[1] Loosely interpreted.

[Titus]

We aren't going to catch anyone via deduction if we massclaim. Given it is Day 9, scum can be caught if they tell a narrative that is inconsistent or implausible. Even if we catch no one, we can structure night actions for intel. I see a high risk high reward.

First, we need to determine who needs to claim. Then popcorn, most suspicious to least. There aren't many who need to claim.

[Eddard Stark]

Day 9, Vc 1

The Alchemist (1) -

Messiah Complex

Alfred Borden (1) -

Benmage

Benmage (2) -

Alfred Borden, ooba

ooba (1) -

SafetyDance

Not voting (6)

: Cephrir, Magua, Nautilius, Shadoweh, The Alchemist, Titus

With 11 alive it takes 6 votes to lynch

• Deadline Date: 24th of December 19:30 EST
  
• Deadline Countdown: (expired on 2013-12-24 19:30:00)
  
• No one is V/la

[Alfred Borden]

Benmage does not belong to the category of people who get to hardfakeclaim1v1 and then be allowed to live.
Also, he is scum.

[Alfred Borden]

Some roles become a lot less useful when claimed.
I'm usually in favor of early massclaims but this isn't a game we can straightforwardly rolelogic to lynch better.
So basically all it will accomplish is telling scum which players have doctory / otherwise useful powers.
Anyone who has alignment relevant role info is welcome to claim it; otherwise I don't approve.

[ooba]

Lynch All Liars, may as well start with first and worst.

Magua - this is why.

As scum, he puts himself in the same bucket as me - aka if people push him for his fake guilty - all he and his scum buddies have to do is to point fingers at "ooba did it too".

[ooba]

Ooba, you need to drop the hell out of your two scumteam theory until evidence of it arises.

You want evidence of the two scumteams - you lynch Benmage. Not my fault both teams can't crosskill properly.

Night 2 - macmollie killed
Night 4 - blocked by Titus
Night 6 - AGar killed
Night 8 - Tierce killed

Night 1 - BP eaten up by Tierce
Night 3 - ???
Night 5 - ??? (blocked by Agar?)
Night 7 - Tammy killed

[Shadoweh]

idc if everyone claims. The guy who tracked a town with no other actions to the nightkill should fullclaim.

[SafetyDance]

This game pisses me off so horribly based on how beautifully it started that I am probably willing to burn a policy lynch today. On Syryana. And Jesus fuck I never thought I would say that.

You pushed the boulder that started the avalanche.

Have not forgotten who created that 1v1 against town....and is still here.

[SafetyDance]

I see no compelling reason not to mass claim today.

I plan on ISOing everyone, because this really is going to shit. I'm lost and confused and I don't understand

how the last few lynches have all been town.

Benmage, I hate you. FYI.

I can help there:

Day 5 - PnJ speedlynched before all the playerlist comes in (town)
Day 6 - Nacho creates the 1v1 with Goat to get him lynched (town)
Day 7 - Ooba fakes guilty on Kanye to get him lynched (town)
Day 8 - Benmage fakes guilty on GR to get him lynched (town)

Also there was a point yesterday where the GR wagon stalled and people were calling him town, has to be more to do with knowledge than reads you would think.

Massclaim is dumb. Near as I gather, all town claims so far have been met with, "Lol stupid fakeclaim die scum oh shit they were town," then repeat, helped by ooba and Benmage. Given the no role flip, limited shot setup, I have zero conviction that we'd be trapping any scum in a lie and so it'd just let them know more of the setup with no gain for us.

[1] Loosely interpreted.

There's a few more out there but really the advantages of massclaiming now is that it can be the last chance to do so before we get to an end game situation. It is better having the information out there now then just releasing it when it is most beneficial for scum to bullshit. Tie people down to role claims, try and figure it out and leave the only manipulation by scum to the night, as opposed to any mylo/lylo scenario. The more hoops we can try and get scum to jump through, the less we have to jump through ourselves.

I am sick of these half-arsed claims, I was sick of having mine out there for so long (didn't think I'd live past D1) but feel no remorse over it considering what's happened this game and the aversion people have had.

People like Messiah have been skimming since the start, others have been backing others actions for *reasons* (eg GR & Tierce; Ceph,Nacho & Titus). Shadoweh is even trolling now. ("Ice skating. I'm sure someone will be an obvious target by the end of the day. ").

Heck considering she's effectively Vig claimed, she's the leading candidate for a modified SK. Actually surprised Omar isn't in this game considering the runups that have occurred.

Ooba, you need to drop the hell out of your two scumteam theory until evidence of it arises.

You want evidence of the two scumteams - you lynch Benmage. Not my fault both teams can't crosskill properly.

Night 2 - macmollie killed
Night 4 - blocked by Titus
Night 6 - AGar killed
Night 8 - Tierce killed

Night 1 - BP eaten up by Tierce
Night 3 - ???
Night 5 - ??? (blocked by Agar?)
Night 7 - Tammy killed

After solid days of plays, Reads!Ooba kinda turned into Theories!Ooba, didn't he?

Glad you're admitting to having no evidence for this theory.

[ooba]

After solid days of plays, Reads!Ooba kinda turned into Theories!Ooba, didn't he?

Glad you're admitting to having no evidence for this theory.

My two scum team theory is backed up by my reads - but "I cannot see another 4 Chaos scum in the remaining 13" is hardly evidence.

[ooba]

idc if everyone claims. The guy who tracked a town with no other actions to the nightkill should fullclaim.

[SafetyDance]

The probability of the unlikelihood of all 4 remaining anti-town to be in the scum team does not directly lead into the most likely situation being 2 scum teams, especially with nothing to back it up. Nor does "after flip" back up a theory. You don't send someone to jail because once they get there they'll prove they are guilty.

I think you stopped your reads after Quadz died. That can't be a coincidence. /checking

Ninja'd - and you don't think the guy that has openly bullshitted town should be claiming either?

[ooba]

Regarding stopping my reads after Quadz died:
- I opposed the PnJ lynch
- I thought the Goat 1vs1 was the worst thing. I called it Town vs Town

Sure on two I have
- SpyreX's final statements "You know who you are"
- Quadz going a 1:1 on you when he claiming cop would have allowed him to live longer and not hasten his demise
- And a series of attacks on various people that seemed to stem from inside knowledge and not well thought out reads.
But all that is not "hard" evidence.

But Benmage = scum does not need two scum teams - it works well with 6/0 too.

Motivations:

- I lied to get a lynch when I had led two lynches on scum, had generally been good with other town reads (see above) - there's no reason as scum to stick my head out to get kanye lynched - If scum, I would just lie low and win at LyLo with my superlative play\bussing on SpyreX & Quadz
- Benmage on the other hand - gets a clear mislynch - because he can always hide behind his stupid meta and he\his scum partners can claim "let's go after ooba first"

[Titus]

Must resist urge to vote ooba.

FoS ooba

Your motivations section is a bunch of wifom. Garruk had a huge benefit to the town, and a group of people whosaid it was impossible. Iven your certainty you were sane, I figured one of them had to be lying. I would be taking this easier if you started postulating insanity given your wild theories. Yet that doesn't cross your mind.

Your who first point is look at me. I agressively went after two scums. At least quadz was freaking obvious.

[ooba]

Must resist urge to vote ooba.

FoS ooba

Your motivations section is a bunch of wifom.

Garruk had a huge benefit to the town, and a group of people whosaid it was impossible. Iven your certainty you were sane, I figured one of them had to be lying. I would be taking this easier if you started postulating insanity given your wild theories. Yet that doesn't cross your mind.

Your who first point is look at me. I agressively went after two scums. At least quadz was freaking obvious.

I don't understand the entire second paragraph. What does Garruk have to do with me? And what is this about sanities? Are you saying Benmage is insane??

My motivation point is to highlight my play vs Benmage and which one makes sense as scum. Mine doesn't.

[Benmage]

This is a PM I sent to Faraday.

I fakeclaimed because this town fucking sucks. Tierce and Tammy with their your town your town back n forths, and then do nothing approach is simply infuriating. And yes we have Alchemist... and noone mentioning that Llamarable and Empire are playing a god awful game. I faked on the wrong hydra because I gave more credence to those two TT... and I shouldn't of.

Here's a PM I sent to Faraday. This is a Large fucking theme'd game... and there's no point to tryhard as town. I've done it.. but other dumbassfucking town ruin it, and before you get on your high fucking horse about a fakeclaim, GO LOOK in a fucking mirror and comeback and realize you have no fucking clue who the scum are anyways. WHAT?? 225 pages isn't enough to know reads... you want to talk about it... Yeah, let the larger number of scum mindfuck you some more. Its 225 Tammy spent her last day not voting and Tierce was a bouncing bafoon yesterday. SO fuck all of you who think you know better.... Go ahead then... Lynch the remaining scum. Fucking retards.

Here's what I wrote after ooba misfire on kkb.:

You balance for this fake guilty? I mean come on.... Remember when I faked a guilty on you... you gotta know when to fold em. Ooba kept it going too long... alfred and naut essentially quicklynching....

Are we not supposed to lynch ooba tomorrow? HE SAID HE DOESN"T GAMBIT AS TOWN ... We lynched ludi.... meta-wise we have to.

You gotta be kidding me.

I don't know why I care... there's no point to caring. Town win large theme's 20% of the time... whats the point besides twiddling...

The average player fucking blows. Period.

Of course these claims aren't adding up. You've done a shitton of behind the scenes activity, so the average joe-shmo townie is simply left in the dark. The townies withholding their own information think they're better than they are, that everyone reads them as town, and that their secret information is so vital they alone must maintain the details.... Which allows what? Scum to also claim half assed secret role information. Like Tammy/Syranna marriage--Garruk/Shadoweh neighbor+strongarmvig(WTF)--Cephrir/kkb one way note...Why did you put a Miller in this game? Put a Jester in next time.

How many hours should I invest looking for a discepency in these claims?? When scum have all the inside information play the game like a puppet show.

Town lose more often.
Individual town have way less control of the outcome of a game.
Town need to work harder in any given game... profit? Nope... Where's the incentive?
-No wonder the site is plagued with non-nonchalant trolls... There's no point to being town anymore. Scum should be getting demolished. Make scum hard. Make scum win% 20%. Show some real skill. Nope. Not here. You know its easy as fuck to play as scum.

Why do you hate town so much....

Why is it so hard to balance a fucking large theme... I don't get it... When town wins, its usually cause scum went out of their way to drop the ball.

And decent scummer can sit around and let town fuckit up.

[Benmage]

Followed by this:

Osmosis the mafia into killing me. I want out.

Plus tomorrow... Guess who watched Garruk perform the NK.

This guy.

Fuck this sitting around lamb shit. Why do I fakeclaim? Cause the game is mindless sheep.

Like I said... it should've been on Alfred.

[Benmage]

@Benmage: Do you ever plan on not being a complete douchecanoe? Srs question. It's like you're a living trust-tell-in-reverse-who-sabotages-games-as-town-to-get-off-easy-as-scum, and you're proud of it, so kindly explain what the hell your thought process[1] was, kthx.

Go fuckyouself. Join some more games... don't read them.. Blame other. We're proud of you.

[Benmage]

- Benmage on the other hand - gets a clear mislynch - because he can always hide behind his stupid meta and he\his scum partners can claim "let's go after ooba first"

Scumbenmage wouldn't make this pointless risk.. I was under no spotlight.

[ooba]

Benmage, who are the 4 scum?

[Benmage]

Benmage, who are the 4 scum?

Aflred. 2.3.4.

[Benmage]

It isn't:
Ooba
Magua
Titus
Cephir
Benmage

It is:
Alfred

And it could be:
Everyone else.

See why I faked? The % was pretty decent... But I again, I second guess myself foolishly with TT.


Anywhose... ya'all can take the easy way out today, bitch at me... blame me for the loss.. Or put on your big boy pants, and lynch obvscum Alfred.

[SafetyDance]

Benmage, I agree with most of your non-italicised points. The You're-Town circle jerk that was happening did not benefit town in the slightest. Certainly the non-votes and no scum reads doesn't help, which is probably why they were first to go in this "town-bloc"

I'm still confused as to why that's a reason for you to try and commit mafia-seppuku if town (which, like ooba, we don't know you are). What are the rest of us meant to try and do for motivation when you supposedly threw the game out the window because you've given up trying to be in that "20%" of results?

Look at it from ourt POV: If you two are town, you've just handed the game to scum on the last two days. I mean sure, there's several other things that helped contribute but you both enabled scum to just sit this one out and ride the waves of town

chaos

.

Full claim now.

Please

.

[Titus]

VOTE: Benmage

Ooba, your fake claim laid the groundwork for Benmage's.By fake claiming on a real cop, who outed the flavor before I could save him, that lead to GR's death as I had no method of testing Benmage's claim. While I can believe your play is derpy, I cannot on Benmage and I will explain that in a moment.

1) Demotivation. This is the time we need to rally, not be defeated.
2) We have lost any chance of catching scum red handed due to two cop claimers not being real.
3) We will not have hard deductions. Tough shit BM. If you are town adjust according. The game doesn't bow to your whims.


I am going to grab the end of Kanye's wagon as I am near certain someone is scum in that shit.