Mini 1543--Natirasha's On Parole!(Game Over)

[Bert]

But it also stinks of fishing for reasons. The only reason I didn't vote for you based just on that was because you don't seem to be that colossally stupid.

You believe in "too stupid a move to be scum"?

Goodfather taking the "spamming" point too far. I'm kinda torn now. His read on Selkies doesn't seem genuine.

What do you think of the "Rule 6" discussion earlier in the day? I'm interested to hear who you think took it to far with that other discussion.

[FourTrouble]

Bert, what games have you played with zMuffin?

There is a big difference between Nacho's reads -- which make sense -- and zMuffin's reads here. I have no problem announcing town reads. The problem I have is with zMuffin's reasoning.

There is also a big difference between PoE and what I find problematic about zMuffin. A single post is enough for a read. I've made that pretty clear. I'm critiquing zMuffin's reasoning behind his reads, not the fact that he has them.

If there is a problem with the reasons behind my reads, point them out. Tell me why Aronis, or King Kenny, are not town. But don't tell me that PoE is going too far when I've provided reasons for all my reads. That doesn't compute.

[FourTrouble]

What do you think of the "Rule 6" discussion earlier in the day? I'm interested to hear who you think took it to far with that other discussion.

I'm not sure what you're getting at. I still think my reasoning is sound, if that's what you're getting at. I think critiquing a rule for punishing scum is more likely to come from scum. It speaks to the player's motivations (scum care if they're punished by a rule, town don't) as well as how informed they are (scum know if it punishes them, town don't, based on the game's setup). It is persuasive evidence that the player is more likely to be scum. It doesn't mean it's 100% the case, though.

[Bert]

I have only one past game (VisCon 1523) to fall back on, which doesn't speak well for my point of view.

Nacho's early reads on page 2 or 3 don't really make sense and seem to be more gut (from my past memories).

If there is a problem with the reasons behind my reads, point them out. Tell me why Aronis, or King Kenny, are not town. But don't tell me that PoE is going too far when I've provided reasons for all my reads. That doesn't compute.

Fair enough. I mean, as for pointing things out, I don't see how you are somewhat confident that Kenny is town right now. But looking back, I sorta get it. A little...I think... I get what you mean about Aronis looking pretty town, though.

I think scum would have tried to rationalize their read more. King Kenny's explanation just makes sense given the view I'm getting of the guy. Is it a solid read? No. But it sure has more town in it than anything Katsuki or zMuffin has posted.

Basically, I don't think it's alignment indicative to call my posts "natural" and "therefore town," which is the basis behind you thinking Kenny is more townie than Katsuki or Muffin. I've heard scum and town say the same thing in the past.

I can see where you're going with Katsuki. Everything about his/her posts is asking pointed questions without arriving at any sort of resolution. Completely null, and it shouldn't be that way with a player.

[FourTrouble]

What I'm getting at with King Kenny is that he didn't try to rationalize his read. The key line in his post was actually the first one, where's he literally says he doesn't know what to say or something to that effect.

[FourTrouble]

Obviously, the read on King Kenny is not gonna be as strong as a read on Selkies, just given the disparity in information we have to work with. But like I said, sometimes a single post is all you need to figure someone's alignment out. I remember playing a game (different site) where I called out the 3/4 of a mafia on the first or second page, with only 1-2 posts from each player. You don't need a lot to figure things out. You just gotta know what to look for.

[Bert]

FourTrouble. Thanks for finally explaining your vote, but I think your preoccupied with how I play. Some people throw votes and pressure around and use that to find scum, I tend to think out loud and see what people respond to and see how they interact with eachother. You can call it cautious or unagressive, but in my opinion you're more likely to find scum in someone who is trying too hard or being ingenuine.

There's no room for townies to be deceptive. And if I was going after easy lynches, I'd be campaigning hard against some who would have a hard time defending himself, this game has a couple.

My vote isn't on anyone yet and it'll stay that way until I have more to go on. I'm interested in King Kenny and Kaboooom because I don't have anything on them right now, and I want to compare them to the people who are currently topping my scum list

That just screams scum, and I can't figure out why it bothers me. Oh well.

As I've said, I am wary of hydras, and I will continue to be as long as they remain unknown to me.

That may be simple minded, but i have found that skepticism is often justified in this game, especially this early in the game

This feels either unbelievably innocent-sounding or manipulative, depending on how you look at it.

I'm trying to think about Goodfather. My only inkling so far with perspective is that he can ramble on a lot, and often not really scumhunting-based, if you get my drift...

That being said, i am not just going to remove my vote. You are in no real danger of being hammered, so for now, i am going to keep my vote on you while i reread the thread and re-evaluate my read to see if anyone else sticks out more as scum.

Ffery, this is the type of post that really got to me in Newbie 1415 (past game). I get bothered when people just go "let me take a long, long moment before I place this really, really tactical vote." Exaggerating, but......

If I had to guess, I would say that this is orc's post i am responding too, but I am not sure. Am i wrong??

My observation is that you're preoccupied with discussing Orc and Ffery and their hydra, and I don't see how this discussion is going to do any good...what do you say to that?

Kaboom seems more like he's got no clue what's going on, regardless of alignment, and I'm not sure why he's in the game.

Eh, from the look of his/her posts, he

could

be scum faking 'not being able to keep up with the spam.' That could be a tactic to coast as scum, maybe...

[Bert]

EBWOP:

But like I said, sometimes a single post is all you need to figure someone's alignment out. I remember playing a game (different site) where I called out the 3/4 of a mafia on the first or second page, with only 1-2 posts from each player.

You don't need a lot to figure things out. You just gotta know what to look for.

That's a good point.

Off topic: At this point, I'm not really looking for things (not sure exactly what I'm looking for), per se, but just trying to participate so that I am engaged and giving whatever feedback comes to mind (hope it's not to a fault). Right now, tacky comments and responses stand out, but having gut-reactions does not equal finding scum.

[FourTrouble]

I think I already asked you what you thought of the Cabd-Goodfather interaction but... Your gut doesn't tell you anything is off there?

[Bert]

I thought it was pretty alignment-neutral - if you mean the back-and-forth that escalated quickly?

One side got offended, then lashed out...

What do you think of it? Maybe I'm missing something.

First thoughts that come to mind are some happenings in Wingate (past mini) where this kind of thing happened several times on different days too...it lead to replace-outs I think...

Second thought is that it's easy for scum to hide behind that kind of escalation.

Just found my earlier response, which is the same vein as what I just typed:

@fourtrouble: the altercation from both sides got more heated than necessary, and both sides are at fault? Not alignment indicative at all... Moving on...

[The Goodfather]

As I've said, I am wary of hydras, and I will continue to be as long as they remain unknown to me.

That may be simple minded, but i have found that skepticism is often justified in this game, especially this early in the game

This feels either unbelievably innocent-sounding or manipulative, depending on how you look at it.

I'm trying to think about Goodfather. My only inkling so far with perspective is that he can ramble on a lot, and often not really scumhunting-based, if you get my drift...

That being said, i am not just going to remove my vote. You are in no real danger of being hammered, so for now, i am going to keep my vote on you while i reread the thread and re-evaluate my read to see if anyone else sticks out more as scum.

Ffery, this is the type of post that really got to me in Newbie 1415 (past game). I get bothered when people just go "let me take a long, long moment before I place this really, really tactical vote." Exaggerating, but......

If I had to guess, I would say that this is orc's post i am responding too, but I am not sure. Am i wrong??

My observation is that you're preoccupied with discussing Orc and Ffery and their hydra, and I don't see how this discussion is going to do any good...

what do you say to that?

all of these observations of yours are just examining small aspects of my posts that have to do with my suspicion of selkies, but i'll answer your question

@bold, I was answering selkies questions as to whether i could tell the heads apart. I never got told if I was right tho.
And I am admittedly new to both mafia as a game and to this site specifically, but I am adjusting to hydras by asking questions and trying to get a better understanding. I prefer to be informed and make reasoned posts rather than simply relying on gut instinct, and the best way to do that is to ask questions. also, asking questions is a good way to get a better read on someone.

[Bert]

I like that response Re: Goodfather. When you ask most hydras what you've been asking Selkies, it's usually easy to get answers without resistance.

I've played with Ffery in the past, and I'm having trouble telling the heads apart too. I'm not quite sure they recognize how their posts are so....different YET similar...

[FourTrouble]

The Cabd-Goodfather interactions bothers me on a gut-level. Something feels fake about the emotion but I can't tell you what, so I just kind of bracket it in my mind for now.

[Natirasha]

Vote Count 1.17

MafiaSSK(1):

Idiotking

Cabd(0):

Selkies(4):

zMuffinman, Katsuki, kabooooomm, The Goodfather

zMuffinMan(1):

MafiaSSK

FourTrouble(0):

King Kenny(0):

The Goodfather(0):

kabooooom(0):

Bert(0):

RossWilliam(2):

FourTrouble, Bert

Aronis(1):

Cabd

Idiotking(0):

Katsuki(0):

No Lynch(0):

Not Voting(5):

King Kenny, RossWilliam, Aronis, Selkies

With thirteen alive, it takes seven to lynch.

Deadline:

(expired on 2014-02-04 21:00:00)

[Selkies]

VOTE: Katsuki

-o

[Katsuki]

VOTE: Katsuki

-o

^scumposting

[Bert]

Any opinions to add, Katsuki?

[Katsuki]

nope i havent read the game.

[Katsuki]

*or more so, caught up since I last read which was a while ago i think.

[Bert]

Then why have you been tunneling Selkie if you haven't caught up?

Also, you've made comments about Muffin and an assortment of a few other players. It just seems like you're not interested in the game.

Do you plan to catch up soon? If you don't, you may become a policy lynch soon in the mold of myself (I get policy lynched quite a bit and also fall behind, never catch up, etc.).

[Bert]

EBWOP: I have gotten policy lynched quite a bit in the past, I mean.

It takes guts to call out a vote on you as 'scumposting.'

-->

VOTE: Katsuki

-o

^scumposting

[Katsuki]

You think I'll be policy lynched?

[zMuffinMan]

So, Ross/Muffin/Katsuki scum-team? That makes the most sense, at this point.

it would not surprise me in the least if all 3 of those names are town

the funny part is i don't even think you're scum, you're just really lost

[Bert]

@Katsuki:

No. But Selkies is pushing your lynch and you're not exactly a universal townread right now - on most scum/null-lists, actually.

Also, Muffin's nonproductive posts worry me...I'm seriously considering voting him if he doesn't step up soon.

So why are you so sure that Selkies is scum? Outline the case for me please. <3

[Katsuki]

I guess I should really be worried about that one vote on me.

There are, however, multiple things that are wrong with your #498.