Xenosaga Mafia (Game Over)

[Skullduggery]

I didn't believe anyone could read that ATE post and not declare pieguy town. Since then, I've seen a decent number of others continue suspecting him, so I must conclude it's possible.

Possible that Pieguy is actually Scum or possible that other players doubt him? You make it sound like you suspect him just because others do.

Also, yes, this is true, nothing. Pieguy isn't getting lynched. However, I can imagine how it could be useful to scum. It gives them someone to talk about suspecting who will not go away fro quite some time and yet will also not survive the entire game. It keeps him in the public eye for possible lynching if he doesn't get a successful protect off in some arbitrary amount of time.

So you think Pieguy is Town and Venmar is Scum who is setting him up for a future mislynch. Is that correct?

What's your point? Does that completely invalidate Pieguy's observations on Venmar or something?

Basically, I don't think the sample size is large enough. Drawing meta conclusions from so few games is folly. I mean - one, solitary town game? That's not enough.

How much do you consider to be "enough"? If you and I have only played two games together and you act completely different in the second game than you did in the first, is it folly for me to draw conclusions from that? Should I be looking at every game you've ever played before I can consider myself informed?

You seem to be arguing that Pieguy is wasting his time by trying to meta Venmar to figure him out. Why is that? As a Town player, wouldn't it make more sense for you to be appreciative that he did that work for you? Why was your first response to discredit Pieguy's efforts? (And no, you didn't just disagree with Pieguy -- you

discredited

him.)

What do I expect? An active Kagami. The one I'm not seeing. Taking a passive stance and watching the posts go by is not something I've come to expect from you. Granted, there isn't much to speculate about as far as the setup itself, but that never stopped you from prodding around and being proactive before. You feel completely different this game, and I dislike it.

How are these observations about Kagami any more valid than Pieguy's observations about Venmar?

If it concerns you, why don't you try to change it?

Oh, lovely! I had never thought of that! You're so gosh darn smart, you know?

Yeah, sometimes I even amaze myself.

Complaining about low activity while doing nothing to increase activity is scummy. Do you agree? (Metal Sonic is doing the same thing, by the way, and it has not gone unnoticed.)

I didn't like how he went about it. If I were an IC that could activate at-will I figure I'd get a wagon going on myself(purposely, if need be), wait until I got to L-1, pop it off, and then try to pick out the scum from my wagon. Granted, it'd be a bit skewed since I may have to act a bit scummy to get it going, but you could still gather useful information from it. Scum swinging at the low-hanging fruit, for example. But, yeah. That's what I was expressing upset for. Get it?

So your magnificent plan would be to manipulate the other players by intentionally acting scummy so you can gather votes and then yell "Gotcha!" while analyzing the wagon to see who was voting for a player who was acting scummy. And that will help you separate the Town players from the Scum players...how, exactly? Because only Scum players swing for low-hanging fruit? Because Town players never try to lynch the scummiest player first?

although i literally have no idea what skull or aegor's read on me is because i skip their posts entirely lololol

I'm letting others sort you because fuck if I know what to make of your shenanigans.

Mollie has posted emotional reactions to things in the thread that make me feel like she is seeing events from a town motivated lens.

Care to quote some examples of this? I don't see anything of the sort.

Flandre, SSK, and brian are PLs more than anything else to my mind, and I don't think it's useful to entertain a PL while there's still time on the clock.

Why do you consider Brian Skies to be a policy lynch at this point?

(There were myriad ways Mastin could have pushed the neighbourhood angle as scum - completely ignoring them was not one of those ways.)

Do you think that Venmar is Scum for using this approach to base his Scum-read of Metal Sonic?

[Angry Frat BROs]

Oh!

Just realized.

Fuck yeah, this game's a town win.

BRO is town.
Nacho is town.

They never lose.

We win.

This works out regardless of Nacho's alignment. I've never lost to Nacho's scum game, nor has he ever defeated mine ^_^

[sangres]

Oh!

Just realized.

Fuck yeah, this game's a town win.

BRO is town.
Nacho is town.

They never lose.

We win.

This works out regardless of Nacho's alignment. I've never lost to Nacho's scum game, nor has he ever defeated mine ^_^

yabbut I have. Once anyway.

[Kazekirimaru]

How much do you consider to be "enough"? If you and I have only played two games together and you act completely different in the second game than you did in the first, is it folly for me to draw conclusions from that? Should I be looking at every game you've ever played before I can consider myself informed?

- Enough is enough. One town game isn't enough, that's for damn sure.
- There's a difference between experiential meta and cold meta, quit setting up your strawmen in my yard.
- It couldn't hurt.

You seem to be arguing that Pieguy is wasting his time by trying to meta Venmar to figure him out. Why is that? As a Town player, wouldn't it make more sense for you to be appreciative that he did that work for you? Why was your first response to discredit Pieguy's efforts? (And no, you didn't just disagree with Pieguy -- you discredited him.)

- I'm not arguing that at all, actually. I'd just like more effort on the meta front since it's so easy to misread someone based on shallow metadives.
- I don't give gold stars for half-efforts. And there's a difference between discrediting someone and telling someone to step up their game. As a town player, I'd like for my fellow townies to be firing on all cylinders, wouldn't you?

How are these observations about Kagami any more valid than Pieguy's observations about Venmar?

I've played like 3-4 games with Kagami in the last three months or something close to that. So; my sample-size is larger, it's all experiential meta, and it's all recent and has certain aspects taken into account that playing with someone over a period of time can produce like perceived progression(or "trajectory" if you will.)

Complaining about low activity while doing nothing to increase activity is scummy. Do you agree? (Metal Sonic is doing the same thing, by the way, and it has not gone unnoticed.)

Not really. Not by itself. Though this particular question is pretty odd considering I never complained about low activity - I complained about sporadic activity.

So your magnificent plan would be to manipulate the other players by intentionally acting scummy so you can gather votes and then yell "Gotcha!" while analyzing the wagon to see who was voting for a player who was acting scummy. And that will help you separate the Town players from the Scum players...how, exactly? Because only Scum players swing for low-hanging fruit? Because Town players never try to lynch the scummiest player first?

Hey, I didn't say it was a

fantastic

plan, but it would get things going!

Do you think that Venmar is Scum for using this approach to base his Scum-read of Metal Sonic?

Not necessarily. Assuming that there is one scum in a neighbourhood of three isn't an uncommon thing for a townie, and I'm not sure Venmar understood the breadth of the situation at that point. He was only considering his own neighbourhood in a vacuum, correct? It's not until you entertain the idea of multiple neighbourhoods that hunting for scum within said neighbourhoods using the conventional wisdom of "1 in 3" becomes less effective.

[sangres]

It's like you're trying to make me proud.

[Aegor]

If you and I have only played two games together and you act completely different in the second game than you did in the first, is it folly for me to draw conclusions from that?

YES.

Should I be looking at every game you've ever played before I can consider myself informed?

YES, and maybe not even then.

So your magnificent plan would be to manipulate the other players by intentionally acting scummy so you can gather votes and then yell "Gotcha!" while analyzing the wagon to see who was voting for a player who was acting scummy. And that will help you separate the Town players from the Scum players...how, exactly? Because only Scum players swing for low-hanging fruit? Because Town players never try to lynch the scummiest player first?

1) Playing scummily and having people vote you for playing scummily are very different
2) Even reasonable wagons can yield nice info

The plan sounds very reasonable.



Why does Kaze not have more votes?

[Kazekirimaru]

It's like you're trying to make me proud.

I want to make you proud, senpai! I'll be the very best, like no one ever was! <3

YES.

YES, and maybe not even then.

1) Playing scummily and having people vote you for playing scummily are very different
2) Even reasonable wagons can yield nice info

The plan sounds very reasonable.

Why does Kaze not have more votes?

Uhm...

But you agreed with me. And my plan. And stuff.

[Aegor]

So? Your "plan" was what any reasonable IC would do if he were not brain-dead. Giving you towncred for a total hypothetical with an optimal strategy is like giving you towncred for telling us to lynch scummy players.

[Venmar]

I hope people know that Metal Sonic being in my neighborhood is not the chief reason for my suspicion of him. Admittedly, I used the "1 in 3" idea as a basis of taking a stronger look at MS and AFB at the beginning of the game, though that's really it. I first looked over AFB, decided he was probably town, and then moved on to Metal Sonic. If I got the same feeling on MS as on AFB then I would have concluded "all town neighborhood", but I clearly did not.

[Varsoon]

Neighbors might be town.
No use worrying about it now.
Just lynch the damn scum.

[ActionDan]

Rubedo give me a sign show me that you're town aligned

[Angry Frat BROs]

muffin's IC claim was stupid but null.

^ shit like this is why Aegor is obvious town.

Hes concise, clear, and down to business. (to defeat the huns).

Every townie WISHES they could be as protown as this guy.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Since when?

Since he tried to wagon zMuffin for faking an IC claim?

Actually MetalSonic's reaction was worse, I think we'd be willing to compromise on MS today even though he isn't our top lynch.

Are not as good as butts.

While true, what the hell in that post made you declare that? There was literally nothing in 773 that I wouldn't also post as scum.

I wish I could point to concrete things, but its really just your overall attitude. I like where your emphasis has been; you feel like you are genuinely trying to convey opinions as you have them. You feel open. I guess compare to Anything Goes where everything you did felt more calculated.

because BRO BECOMES the guy he's hydraing with. )

We definitely fused together a little bit (to become Gotenks) in our Hydra last game. Sort of mutual.

@Mastin: Ok I'll give you the SSK townread for the time being. He doesn't feel particularly excited about lynching scummies though which I know he is capable of.

EBWOP: In case you can't tell. That was sarcasm. AFB just never told anyone why I was scummy which is scummy. So yeah.

I made a post about it iirc. And muffin flipping scum doesn't make you town.

[Angry Frat BROs]

oh thank god frat bros are town

I think muffina is too

I hate having to walk eggshells around you but the truth of the matter is that I do. but there is no "fault" for the quantity of my posts.

mastin how the hell did you townread us off one freakin' post holy shit? that's a cause for concern.

town looking posts

[macmollie]

I have alot of love for orci's #521 because I think it's a very town train of thought regarding himself & sangres read on him/cabd. Only slight difference is I think Varsoon is town, but otherwise orci's town for me

I'm townreading you for the way you claimed hated. Do stuff I don't like and I'll stop townreading you for it.

Is there some different method to claiming hated between town and scum? cus the way he claimed is null if you asked me.

it's also noted how you say this but you don't get involved by hopping on my wagon or offering actual analysis. fueling the fire from the sidelines much?

ITT you forget I am voting Metal Sonic and am developing other scumreads at the same time. ITT you also attack everyone who calls you scum. Nice.

Are you really, though? I don't see much in your posts other than "Metal Sonic is scum" repeatedly, mixed in with a bit of "pie is scum" - (hint: he's not, and if he is, I think it's really poor play to fake a meltdown like he did later on. I don't think that's his style.)

Hello, townies.

Look at your vote. Now back to mine. Now back at your vote. Now back to mine. Sadly, it isn't mine. But if you stopped being lame and switched to pieguy, it could be awesome like mine. Look down. Back up. Where are you? You're on a boat with the vote your vote could be awesome like. What's in your hand? Back at me. I have it. It's a vote for that guy that looks scummy as hell. Look again. The vote is now a lynch. Anything is possible when your vote looks like awesome and not terribad. I'm on a wagon.

VOTE: pieguy

THIS IS A GREAT POST. here's my response :



I think this "Skull is rolefishing" caper that's going on here is sub-par and not coming from scum. I think Aegor might be scum latching onto orci's reasoning for scumreading Skull in order to push her further, but other than that I hope it's dropped pretty soon.

Yeah, I stand by what I said earlier having reach pie's meltdown/replace out. If he's scum, I'll be really disappointed in him using a meltdown/replace out and then rejoining as a ploy to be townread, but I don't see him doing that. Town for me.

/through 26 (just japes here - I'm not mastin. )

[orcinus_theoriginal]

my boner is so confused

[Angry Frat BROs]

I'm not convinced of AP's townread on orcinus. We probably don't want to lynch him, but hes firmly in the "sort later" pile along with cabd ^_^

[macmollie]

I haven't read all these posts yet but I fucking told you pie was town

Venmar is scum for suggesting otherwise

Weird post, Venmar might be scum but not solely for suggesting pieguy alone was scum.

goddammit you are town too

what don't you like about mastina cos I like him

Ask mac, he's thinking what I'm thinking. Mastin gave a bullshit wall of reads with reads of players with ONE rvs post; and then quickly abandons them at his whimsey.

It bugs the fuck out of me but I imagine it might be a playstyle thing. I know mollie has the ability to read me off one post (see Anything Goes) but I felt like the post wasn't substantial enough for him to get a read out of it. I am however willing to trust mollie for now until we get a little more in-sync with each other.

it took me far too long to figure out snagers was sangres in her reads list.

But Cabd I started Tales of the Abyss today, I still can't go in there!

TL;DR mac-scum came out the gate swinging at the two townies of the hood, fuzylogic said it was a masonry, nacho was ambivalent.

eheheh. that willbe my favourite scumgame up until d3 when we had a case of 2muchtown

This post is good

i wrote that post and i don't even think it was good

you're scum, aren't you?

scum, or derp? I know MS has a tendency to dance around telling everyone the sky is yellow through both alignments.

785 gave me the heebie jeebes, but that happens to anyone who tries to direct PRs, especially in the roundabout way MS is doing it here. the only way directing a PR works is when town agrees on it. (aka the PLAN from gears!)

Kaze's 810 is terrible. starts off with questioning why pie is town, ends up questioning mastin on why pie is scum fakeclaiming bodyguard. He just moved into my scumpile.

Maybe I'm misinterpreting it?

[Angry Frat BROs]

785 gave me the heebie jeebes, but that happens to anyone who tries to direct PRs, especially in the roundabout way MS is doing it here. the only way directing a PR works is when town agrees on it. (aka the PLAN from gears!)

Actually, I just noticed that.

Do not investigate inside my neighborhood, I will policy lynch you. ESPECIALLY not metal sonic after that post.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Kaze's 810 is terrible. starts off with questioning why pie is town, ends up questioning mastin on why pie is scum fakeclaiming bodyguard. He just moved into my scumpile.

Maybe I'm misinterpreting it?

No, you are reading it properly. Kaze is a scummy butt.

[zMuffinMan]

muffin's IC claim was stupid but null.

^ shit like this is why Aegor is obvious town.

what do you mean? he called it stupid. LAL

[zMuffinMan]

Vote: Flandre

[zMuffinMan]

i will paypal $100 to whoever shoots metal sonic tonight







disclaimer: i won't actually

[zMuffinMan]

i want to lynch from this group today: {flandre, MS, kagami, cabd, kaze, cephrir} roughly in order of most to least desired lynches

[borkjerfkin]

well then