Newbie 1471: Italian Ice (Game Over!)

[Nachomamma8]

sakura why are you ignoring this game?

[GuyInFreezer]

VC 2.02

Sakura Hana (L-2):

pisskop | Hayate Yagami

pisskop (L-1):

bjc | Nachomamma8 | Sakura Hana

Not Voting:

fferyllt, RayFrost

With 7 alive, 4 votes to lynch.
The deadline is February 23, 4:00 PM EST.
Deadline: (expired on 2014-02-23 16:00:00)

Hayate Yagami failed to pick up the prod thus will be replaced.

[fferyllt]

damn.

[GuyInFreezer]

And just like that, Wisdom replaces Hayate Yagami.

[pisskop]

So i want an opinion on lmb. hes ehh to me, lylo scum, but this seems like a townie getting bored. if hayate was scum shes got almost no heat. bjc and I mentioned her.

[Wisdom]

hai
What do I need to know?

[pisskop]

pedit. hi wisdom. are you scum? I wont be mad at you.
Tiershift was scum

Abbott/hana had minimal contact with him.
tiershift defended my slot and for awhile i his.

Nacho is my backup choice.

[Wisdom]

nope, not scum.

[fferyllt]

Hi Wisdom.

I replaced in late day 1.

Tiershift was scum, lynched day 1. Now we're partner hunting, basically. I've been in kind of a holding pattern waiting to hear more from Ray. His top scum read turned out to be the cop (killed night 1) and his second choice was lynched. Nacho and I disagree on pisskop as PoE scum.

[fferyllt]

Your predecessor wrote a really good catch up post, though the post links don't work. That's probably a good way to get up to speed on day 1.

[Wisdom]

Nacho thinks it's pisskop?
Who do you think it is?

[fferyllt]

I have concerns about Sakura. If not her, then I'd look next at Ray and Nacho, no particular order atm.

I've been putting off doing a deep review of the Abbott/Sakura slot until Ray has his say. Not that there's a dependency, but I'm busy with other stuff this week. And lazy.

Hayate towned the hell out of your slot, so that's off the table afaiac atm.

[RayFrost]

Due to interaction (or specifically lack thereof) between abott / tiershift combined with the fact I still am townreading pisskop, I'm currently on the side of the fence known as "sakura is scum"

It's kind of unfortunate for sakura that her play itself isn't terribly scummy to me, but the way tier interacted around abott and abott's play in general (given the shifty lynch) reads as scumtelly to me, sooooooooo yeah.

[Wisdom]

Finished reading.

It has been clear to me since like page 20 or less that the remaining scum is either RayFrost or Rob/pisskop. That feeling didn't change at any point during my read.

First things first: ffery and Sakura are undoubtedly town, both because of their obvtown predecessors and their own play (though mainly the former. I'm not sure if I would allow myself to easily townread ffery or Sakura no matter how town they would be). In ffery's case it's also because of TierShift's early strong townread on ika.
bjc is also strong town. I liked his behavior when he was at L-1 during D1, I liked his play, and TierShift's heavy tunneling on him also makes it highly unlikely that they're buddies.
Nacho.. I always townread him by default and this is the case in this game too. I would not be completely surprised if he turned out to be the buddy, but I don't think so, nor do I want to think so at the moment.

Which leaves the two I mentioned.
Rob was a newbie who practically posted nothing and ended up getting replaced. pisskop is a guy who spams and most of the time I didn't bother to understand what he was posting. TierShift fought against Rob's lynch, and while it could be argued they could be buddies, I more felt he was WKing him, going for the towncred if the lynch went through. I could be wrong on that though. He also had plenty of interactions with pisskop.

RayFrost.. well to be honest here, I always scumread RayFrost. I don't like his playstyle, as I always feel that much blah blah equals manipulation. Many of his walls I didn't bother reading, but I did notice that at crucial times around the deadline or L-1 wagons he was silent or was not trying to get who he was voting lynched. I think I recall him trying to raise suspicion on emeraldemon while voting TierShift. Sure, he ended up being on TierShift's wagon in the end, but he didn't have much choice seeing as how the flashwagon happened. His pisskop defence also feels like WKing.

----

@ffery
I'd like you to point out posts of pisskop where you spotted town motivation and felt that he isn't scum or he isn't TierShift's buddy. Admittedly I didn't read much of his posts as his posting style was tiring me. If you did this already, quote where you did please.

@Sakura/Nacho/whoever townreads RayFrost
Why is RayFrost town?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: RayFrost

[RayFrost]

Wisdom, doesn't this make you 2/2 for playing with me as town and reading me as scum? Or is it 3/3 at this point?

It's been too long for me to remember. Welcome to the game by the way. How yah been?

Lack of presence in this game is due to lack of time. Shrug.

[Wisdom]

2/2 if you are town, and 2/2 if you are scum. I read you correctly in 1305 and incorrectly in 1425.

[pisskop]

no.

we have hana. shes here. rays. . . there.

tbh I saw his early defensive wifom arguements and flagged them. and his posts seem to glaze into a certain brand of idle chatter but theyre typically hypotgetically right and looong/detailed enough to impress upon me a thought bubble. also very open.

So ive sheltered some suspicion if him and even asked wagons to state a claim to him.

Okay. I dont really feel comfortable doing it yet, but logically we have 4 chances to bag scum02. Is scumray this subtle.

also: oww.

[RayFrost]

I'd like to think that I'm subtle as scum. Wisdom just always reads me as scum regardless of alignment. It's like gambling.

I don't really understand what you're trying to say in the rest of your post.

[pisskop]

my gut turned over while reading a few of your posts. they seemed focused on the wrong things. but without anything tangibly off to.pull out of it i let them go. It was enough to make me ask ed and tier about this idea of you.

also: oww, was a reference to my tiresome style of spamming. Obvs I need to make adjustments or wallow as middlemeat.

[fferyllt]

@ffery
I'd like you to point out posts of pisskop where you spotted town motivation and felt that he isn't scum or he isn't TierShift's buddy. Admittedly I didn't read much of his posts as his posting style was tiring me. If you did this already, quote where you did please.

1213

1216

1230

1266

1279

@everyone else, Wisdom is town as fuck in case there was any doubt about this slot. Two tasty wagons already formed and Wisdom goes for someone who's not got a vote on him. I don't think scum-Wisdom would choose to start from scratch building a new wagon.

[RayFrost]

Wisdom regardless of alignment has to try and get me lynched without fail.

It's like a universal law.

[fferyllt]

You guys need to link me to some games then.

[fferyllt]

But more importantly do you have any reason to think that slot is scum, Ray?

[RayFrost]

I don't.

I just like expressing my innate distaste for wisdom's inability to see any towntells in how I play (it's not really good manipulation if I'm being completely up front with what I want / am thinking is it or blatant about not being up front is it?). I mean, I absolutely despise certain players' playstyles and find them difficult to read, but I still end up being able to at least get a certain grasp for the differences between town / scum play for a lot of them (except people that have a playstyle of simply lurking). He's gotta learn how I work at some point.

Also, wisdom mentioned two games that we've been in together. I believe they're the only two aside from this game, but I can't remember. It's been way too long.

[Wisdom]

ffery I really don't think Rob's posts can give town feelings in any way; he was just prod dodging. Not sure where you're seeing lost-town. Why not lost-scum?
The VT claim is null. I said the same when a scum claimed VT in a JK9 game (where it's even more important for scum not to get lynched D1), and I fought against his lynch based on that, but he was still scum. There are scum who claim PRs to draw counterclaims and others who don't.
I could buy the real time quick posting point, as there are many people (especialy newbies) who can't do it as scum, but it's not such a strong towntell either. There are certainly people who can post like that as scum, I know I can, so you're just underestimating him.

The only reasons I could find him town is the WKing from TierShift and RayFrost.