Tales of You (Endgame)

[AngryPidgeon]

I'm here ffery but I haven't had a chance to sit down and mafiamafia since Friday.


-muffin

Muffin is this you?

[CarbonFiber]

@ Breakfast, I agree with most of your list. The only one I really disagree on is Rancid. I don't have GIF as a strong townread either but he is null. Cupcake is a strong townread for me. I am on the same page with the Beli head on MastinSSK so I think that's who we should lynch today especially since there is no one that both of you are reading as scum.

~ F-16

[Breakfast With Sandy]

That may well be what we wind up doing.

How does his claimed role and the evidence that his vote doesn't count sound for a scum role though?

[CarbonFiber]

It gave me pause but it is a Cabd game. I am going to try not to let setup-spec outweigh day play.

~ F-16

[Lord Business]

Another prod dodge.

Sorry, just not getting going on day 1 at present. I will try harder eventually but if this isn't hood enough I understand if the majority wishes to lynch me.

[AngryPidgeon]

I disagree that town AP doesn't work to control the flow of the game. I have pretty limited in-game experience with him, but work toward cadence control is something I've seen from him in the past.

Do not believe her lies.

Mastin was in Xenosaga extremely recently. I softed a role in my neighborhood N1 and then softed a guilty on Kagami cause I wanted her lynched. I basically ramrodded that lynch through and ESPEICALLY manipulated Venmar/NS who then commented on that explicitly after Kagami flipped town.

Also recently in mini 1521 I wanted mastin lynched in Mylo and Nacho replaced in. I kept pressuring Nacho to hammer mastin because I suspected she was being bussed or something.

Basically, mastin has extremely recent games ...and pretty much all of my games as proof that what she said is false and I really dont care at this point. I strongly doubt mastin as town is capable of confbiasing and misrepping meta so blatantly to try and discredit me voting her (which her recent posts have pretty much been entirely dedicated to).

Could be town, but really REALLY hoping not and thinking its just scum.

Also PV is totally a buddy that mastin is bussing but refuses to actually consider pushing when I bring it up.

[AngryPidgeon]

And that is the difference with mastin here who gets paranoid of me but will actually put effort into understanding my reads/views and mastin here who is trying to ping anything and everything on me in really vague terms.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

I remember that. The kagami lynch pissed me off royally.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

and that's kinda part of what bugs me this game. You're reaching out way more than you did on day 1 of that game, like you think I'm more manipulable in this hydra than I am in sangres or something.

[AngryPidgeon]

My bad. I was so close to taking it all back.

I should have realized she was town, but damn her interactions with Flandre looked so bad.

I did my part for america by removing Aegor when people wanted Skull though

[AngryPidgeon]

and that's kinda part of what bugs me this game. You're reaching out way more than you did on day 1 of that game, like you think I'm more manipulable in this hydra than I am in sangres or something.

No not at all. You guys actually were doing things as Sangres....like nailing Flandre... Right now I feel like you aren't being proactive and I want that to change.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Ffery. stop being useless. Its making you hard to read.

[MastinSSK]

Back, so can now explain.

that's why my townbloc is pretty small. my reads list has a few players I'm willing to lynch today.

Just mastin? Or literally 8 people? Come on, that doesnt cut it. Sitting back and cruise controlling is not getting anywhere . Try narrowing down who you want to lynch and actually, IDK, voting or otherwise talking to those people?

This is not treating Ffery as another player. This is saying a lot of things that are meant to sound protown but are really just derisive of her and accomplish nothing.

Waffling in the corner about who may or may not be OBVTOWN enough to be part of le club is not helpful and, like I said, you are never going to make the golden dream perfect townblock causem evidenced by literally every game ever.

Again. This is not an effort to work with the player in question, respecting their talents. This is not an effort to understand them. This is meant to do one thing: say, "you suck", while also encouraging them to make a reckless vote.

Furthermore, he's treating them like a strong townread. Yet there's no (for lack of a better term) trajectory to show they deserve that attitude. Okay, so AP posted a readslist once which quite frankly I forget the content of. But that reminds me--you know something about that readslist he posted? It lacked a catch-up behind it. A town-AP would have stream-of-consciousness type catchup where he would post his thoughts as he was reading, even if they ended up ultimately redundant. He didn't. A scum-him could do it, too, and to some extent, I'm willing to bet he did...
...In the mafia QT. There's literally nothing. Nothing. Indicating that he's done the reading that he claims to have done.

Again. AP as town, aggressive. Not dismissive.

LIKE HELL YOU DO. Not as town, anyway. NAME ONE GAME. (Aside from our first game.) ONE. FUCKING. GAME. Where you voted me as town and had this attachment to voting me.

THEY DON'T EXIST.

This is a lie.

Oh, really?

Let's look, shall we?
Invitational 15. Linked post is beginning of scumread, with vote. The very next fucking post is an unvote.
It goes back on, but soon comes off, and stays off. A lot.
A lot a lot.

Oh, yes. Scumreading me more than not scumreading me. I'll skip ahead: last vote, still not voting me.

Not there.

Read this game. From the linked post--that's AP's entrance into the day...immediately (correctly) scumreading me. In spite of calling me scum for literally the entirety of his remaining iso, he never votes me. He votes other players.

Anything Goes, where I was an immediate scumread. He does vote me here, but unvotes. Desire existed, but no actual vote. He doesn't vote me again until here, in spite of the scumread. And while he does keep it for a while, he does get off. And it doesn't go back on until here. (It leaves, but does go back on.)

This game is the closest I've come to eluding AP. And in that game...AP was catching on and only didn't get me because he got lynched.


Oh, and while we're on meta.
This is AP as scum, buddying me.
Same thing here. Antihero mafia is a key way to view AP's take on me when he's scum.
This game, offsite, where AP buddies me hardcore and is forced to scumread me later-on. (No iso feature, so you'd have to go through pages manually. Control-f for his name, and it'll be easier.)
The original APscum, mastintown game. Where even when voting me, AP was buddying me. Because his vote wasn't meant to lynch me, it was meant to manipulate me.

This is AP as town, pleading with me.
A similar AP town game, pleading. If you run the iso, you see that he takes time to develop the townread on me. And pleading once it exists.
This is the closest AP's ever come to having a townread on me immediately and consistently as town, and it is again pleading.
A town AP who takes time to develop his read on me. No need for pleading, though, since I had a cop inno. (It should be telling that he WAS my cop choice!)
This is AP, whose read on me never got a chance to develop.
This is AP, who works with me when we're both town.
This is him, having a read on me, but his doubt on me was faked by him not hiding behind me when if he actually thought I was scum he would have. He got paranoid, but ultimately pulled through.
A town AP picks up on me being town, and no paranoia until here. He still pulls it through, ultimately concluding SK-or-town.

Run isos or dual isos of the differences in the games.

The closest game AP has to wanting me dead was Anything Goes. When his scumread on me was immediate and never wavered. And even then. Even then. He did. But that game itself is an abnormality. The vast majority of AP's towngames with me have him taking his time to read me, getting paranoid, having the feeling be mutual if I'm also town, but ultimately having the correct alignment after push came to shove. Because he gets me.

It's mutual. My ability to read him is not as good as his ability to read me, but it's fairly good overall. Because I take my time, prod around, and after our spats, I can tell. More often than not. His alignment.

This is AP as scum.

If you are town then you are tunneling me into the ground which has never actually happened to date either.

Yes it has. In Game of Champions, where I only backed down thanks to your claim. In Antihero, where you never left my scum list. In Pick Your Poison, I don't remember if my vote ever left you, but I was hounding on you the whole game.

Stop trying to deflect things onto Foxhound.

SAYS THE GUY WHO HAS BEEN DEFLECTING ONTO A TON OF TOWN PLAYERS. Like, say. Kagura.

I disagree that town AP doesn't work to control the flow of the game.

Maybe the wrong word. But see my elaboration. AP as town is arrogant, sure. AP as town will work with others, sure. But AP as town is not derisive of others. AP as town is not dismissive of others. AP as town might be demanding, but not like this. It's an entirely different AP. It's more than tone, but that's the best word I have in my vocabulary for it. His attitude is just...entirely different.

[Clyton]

I will admit going through 79 pages to re-analyze everything is very troublesome, tiresome and tedious.

/Unvote

@AP: earlier you said that Mastin is clearly Town, but due to recent developments, you are inclined to believe she is scum based on her behavior and actions towards you. Let me ask: is she your strongest scumread and therefore, you are voting her based on that? (Also, is this scum level stronger than she is town level?) Or do you just want to lynch her because she is the "weakest link" to the town and that there is no other viable scummy options at the moment?

[MastinSSK]

Also PV is totally a buddy that mastin is bussing but refuses to actually consider pushing when I bring it up.

YOU CHEEKY SCUMFUCK.

THIS. IS. EXACTLY. WHAT YOU. HAVE BEEN DOING.

And that is the difference with mastin here who gets paranoid of me but will actually put effort into understanding my reads/views and mastin here who is trying to ping anything and everything on me in really vague terms.

THERE IS NOTHING TO UNDERSTAND.

Like. Your reads. There are none. None that can be understood. Everything you're posting is entirely wrong and opaque. There's zero transparency. NOTHING. That I can get. The only things you've posted that I've agreed on are things I've already commented on as being fucking side-notes of yours compared to the massive amounts of...well...NOTHING. In your posting.

IF THERE WAS ANYTHING IN YOUR POSTING THAT COULD BE UNDERSTOOD, I WOULD BE LITERALLY THE FIRST GOD-DAMNED PLAYER TRYING TO UNDERSTAND IT. But there's nothing there. That I can.

I wanted you to be town.
So damn bad.
I wanted there to be things that could hint at it.
BUT THERE'S NOTHING MORE THAN THINGS TOO SMALL TO EVEN BE CALLED MORSELS.
No thoughts to be followed.

Just, "lol, u".

[AngryPidgeon]

Ffery. stop being useless. Its making you hard to read.

Ok so I WAS doing exactly that in Xenosaga, so what is your point >.>

[AngryPidgeon]

Also PV is totally a buddy that mastin is bussing but refuses to actually consider pushing when I bring it up.

YOU CHEEKY SCUMFUCK.

THIS. IS. EXACTLY. WHAT YOU. HAVE BEEN DOING.

Nor scum-PV. Because there is no PV to be seen, yet, not really. PV not giving content isn't a scumtell; it's a nulltell.

Ehhhhh, I would disagree that this isn't "NO PV". Ya hes been less than ideal amounts of active, but what he has posted shows no sign of him having a town PM. At all. Its not a very strong read, but its definitely there.

So? They'll realize they're wrong eventually, and when they do, interest in working together will rise.

You arent doing anything worth working with.

Some in PV

Ok, except this.
Mastin, if you wanna spring for this, I'll help.

Note you did not follow up on this at all.

[AngryPidgeon]

@AP: earlier you said that Mastin is clearly Town, but due to recent developments, you are inclined to believe she is scum based on her behavior and actions towards you. Let me ask: is she your strongest scumread and therefore, you are voting her based on that? (Also, is this scum level stronger than she is town level?) Or do you just want to lynch her because she is the "weakest link" to the town and that there is no other viable scummy options at the moment?

No, I think Kagura is probably my favorite pick for scum right now. A side of Carbon and PV. Id probably rather lynch any of these 3 than mastin, but Ive long since given up on wagoning CF and Kagura. Mastin seems determined to accuse me of bussing PV and then not actually do anything when I suggest we wagon PV, so ya. Mastin is a fine place to vote unless people want to lynch my other picks.

[MastinSSK]

I am sooooo happy Pere finally popped in and posted the player list and did absolutely nothing else. I'm also looking forward to the fact that he probably won't do anything all weekend long because it's the weekend! Maybe Monday, he'll repost the player list for us again. I was really wondering how I would know who was playing, so glad he's on top of that!

Lol this is town.

This is literally the first content AP posted. A quote of Titan being town. For something that she would post as either alignment. (For that post, Tammy, am I wrong?)

VOTE: Cephrir
Now THIS is a scummy wagon vote.

Second non-defensive content. And it's sheeping.

I don't see how I could've made 592 as scum. I would have had to fake my thoughts on Mastin to look like I'd posted them in a hydra QT two days prior and I don't go to those kinds of lengths as scum.

Wait, people think this is scum? Has it done something absurdly scummy?

Which he immediately takes back. I really don't get why he could townread this.

My only request is that we lynch Yakuri whoever the fuck by D3 at the latest. Wow. If its scum, its gotta go. If its town, its REALLY gotta go.

I guess I get the Yukari suspicion, but it's lurker-hunting.

where are you heading with your vote? I know it's on the fox and I may endorse that, but you questioned it one or two posts later. Unless that wasnt srs, I can't tell

I don't really have anywhere that I'd rather put it right now. Figured I'd sheep orcinus who seems fairly town so far. That Fox/Hound post I quoted was less townie than I made it out to be although the sentiment behind it does look town to me.

Orcinus is somehow town. He does take the Fox/Hound bit back, but not really.

I skimmed MAc's ISO, seems fairly town to me.

The rhyming is bound to get him attention so lightly town on him for that alone. I like where his attention is, hes being proactive, and feels open in general

Lord Business looks pretty terrible from what I've seen.

The Mac read I get...but ironically, this is actually an overexplanation of it. Mac was town for being, well, obvtown. Again, AP's reasoning here is too detailed. And I can understand the sentiment that LB's posting wasn't that solid; I looked at the time. But pretty terrible? I can't.

(Side-note, but reading AP's iso, it's far more dodgy-as-fuck than I remember it having been. Seriously, read his god-damned iso this game and tell me it's straight-up honest and to the point, rather than evasive.)

and I think the main thing I noticed are some tonal issues that are lacking here

How did your read progression of bork go in that game and what tonal issues do you mean specifically?

First bit of scumhunting in a long time, and he's going in against bork (/Titan?).

Alright, thats a pretty town sentiment re: Borktells.

What is your reason for voting BRO/Desp?

And there's follow-through, but again, I don't understand the push at all. The towniest thing here is inquiring about BRO/Desp...but AP's not giving things, himself.

While I sympathize with this, I know BRO at least has been disappointingly unmotivated in some town games of his recently. No idea about desperado. I'm hopeful to interact with them to get an actual feel, but Im not overly confident in my ability to read BRO. so ya, get the frustration but I dont know if hes scummy for that.

@Foxboy: Why would your (lack of) scumread on me not matter? Ar you already resolved to getting lynched or something?

@F-16: Mastin is town. Stubborn. Tunnely. Town. I say this and I may end up waffling on her later in crippling bouts of paranoia and fits of crying, but shes town despite what I may or may not say in the future
You aren't cozying up to Tammy are you

This is quite literally one of the only things in AP's posting that I get. Because he's explaining the reluctance on BRO (though he does so via defending them ), and inquires into Fox/Hound. Plus, his point about F-16 is something that I picked up on previously and had already posted about well before.

PV, you think one of KAgura/Yakumo is scum but not both?

And the line about PV is vaguely understandable.

The next thing even close is this, and this, with DesBro and Fox/Hound pushes.

There's content here, but other than Rancid being town, I simply don't follow.

So not liking: F-16, BRO, GIF. Would lynch. Also maybe Kagura, Bork needs to talk to me.

And again, don't understand these.

Oh. And other side-note. For a player accusing me of not evolving reads...
...AP's reads haven't really evolved much. Still having F-16 as suspicious, still attacking Kagura, and such.

Town: Tammy, RBD
Probably Town: Mac, MastinSSK, Orcinus, Red gyarados?
I don't know, leaning town?: Foxhound, Stalin, LB
Less than Town: Peregrine, F-16, Kagura
Needs to die regardless of alignment: GIF
The rest: Cupcake, Clyton, Katsuki, Sheep Us

I've moved down. Clyton moved up. PV moved down, too, but...what else has changed? Basically, nothing. Not before, not after.

Butyeah. Again. There's not much in there that I actually get, aside from this.

This game does not look like town PV btw.

And that's something that would be true AP's alignment regardless, since in basically any scumteam, PV's going to be the weakest link that they're fine with bussing.

This is halfway through AP's iso. Halfway through, and yet all I have is this.

I suppose it'd be unfair to say literally nothing to understand. But there's so little that it is a solid figurative nothing. In his posts. That makes even a remote amount of sense.

[MastinSSK]

Ffery. stop being useless. Its making you hard to read.

Ok so I WAS doing exactly that in Xenosaga, so what is your point >.>

Compare the two, though.
"Ffery, stop being useless. Makes you hard to read."
Casual. Lighthearted. Playful banter, almost. But also productive. It's scumhunting. Lightly, yes. But doing so all the same.

that's why my townbloc is pretty small. my reads list has a few players I'm willing to lynch today.

Just mastin? Or literally 8 people? Come on, that doesnt cut it. Sitting back and cruise controlling is not getting anywhere . Try narrowing down who you want to lynch and actually, IDK, voting or otherwise talking to those people?

You 2 have been hydra-dissonancing in general over this game and I have a hard time telling where you guys actually have focus on (other than Beli wanting mastin). Your lack of vote is pretty unacceptable at this stage of the game. Like. Figure out a reasonable pool of people you want lynched and be proactive about it.

Waffling in the corner about who may or may not be OBVTOWN enough to be part of le club is not helpful and, like I said, you are never going to make the golden dream perfect townblock causem evidenced by literally every game ever. So actually do something proactive instead of whatever it is you guys are doing right now. Which seems to be Beli wanting to lynch mastin all giddily but deferring to ffery and ffery not doing anything but trying to craft the master townblock at the speed of paint drying and with relevance on part to the points in Whose Line is it Anyway.

If you were actually discussing scumreads with your town core and voting them, then great! But you really arent. Hop to that.

"What the fuck. You need to step up your game. It's unacceptable."

No lightheartedness. This isn't playful banter. This isn't scumhunting, either. It does nothing. It's an attack, an attack on essentially the playstyle of the person.

It's an entirely different post.

ENTIRELY.
Different.

READ THE DAMN POSTS THAT ARE SUPPOSED TO BE SIMILAR.

They're two different worlds entirely. One from town, the other from scum.

[MastinSSK]

Note you did not follow up on this at all.

Yes, I have. I pointed out that PV's one of the options, though an option that I don't think has enough support to go to a lynch. Like Fox/Hound. I did a situational analysis, and my conclusion was scum, but that it's not something that we'd be able to actually pull off.

[AngryPidgeon]

This is not treating Ffery as another player. This is saying a lot of things that are meant to sound protown but are really just derisive of her and accomplish nothing.

Uh ya except you literally just accused me of actively manipulating her. Now Im just trying to look town. But this is something I never do as town.

Your story makes no sense, mastin.

Again. This is not an effort to work with the player in question, respecting their talents. This is not an effort to understand them. This is meant to do one thing: say, "you suck", while also encouraging them to make a reckless vote.

A reckless vote?!?!@?!!???@?@?@?@ Jesus, do we have to reach Page 100 before ffery can make a vote? I want them to narrow their focus. I want them to show interest in things so they are MORE READABLE. Ffery actually linked me doing this exact thing (although less verbosely) in Xenosaga mafia so your point here is extremely bad and its pretty damn clear you are desperate to get votes off of you at this point and this is a thinly veiled attempt to convince ffery Im manipulating her...or just trying to look town..or whatever your case is at the moment.

Furthermore, he's treating them like a strong townread. Yet there's no (for lack of a better term) trajectory to show they deserve that attitude.

NOPE. I have said I lean town on them. Me calling them out onlacking focus does not mean I have them as hilariously obvtown and your construing that I do is ridiculously scummy. I partially want them to start pushing things so I can UNDERSTAND where they are coming form better . Waffling and lurkaderping and making reads lists is great and all, but can be easily from scum.

A town-AP would have stream-of-consciousness type catchup where he would post his thoughts as he was reading, even if they ended up ultimately redundant. He didn't. A scum-him could do it, too, and to some extent, I'm willing to bet he did...

Oh wait I already talked about this: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p5811339

--
So I pretty much have zero intent to respond to all those bogus meta spam accusations. If someone has something they want me to address specifically, I will.

[MastinSSK]

Fuckin' hell, so this is what it feels like.
It sucks.

I really am the AFB of this game.

Nobody's listening.
I have basically the best damn case I could ever possibly make against AP.
All the right points are there.

Yet it's not working.
And AP?

Is likely laughing.

Laughing

.
At me.
That he's finally going to get his revenge. (Total revenge, too.)
Given that he's got daytalk. And can say "whoah, holy shit, that was actually a valid point" to some of my finer moments and "lol, legitimately don't know what Mastin's going on about" for some of my lesser points and an overall "too bad there's too much noise, 'cause if the town actually listened to her, we'd be fucked".

[AngryPidgeon]

I've moved down. Clyton moved up. PV moved down, too, but...what else has changed? Basically, nothing. Not before, not after.

endorse

[AngryPidgeon]

I may have been hasty with my RG endorsement.

Oh also my BRO read went from scummy to probably town.

So plenty of my reads have changed and you selectively ignoring some of them shows me you dont actually care to understand me this game. I mean seriously how the fuck could you miss the BRO read.