Tales of You (Endgame)

[Yulia Jue]

Votecount 1-23

With 17 players alive, it will take 9 votes to lynch or nolynch.

PeregrineV (2): Kagura, AngryPidgeon
MastinSSK (3): CupcakePanda, The Fox and the Hound, Yukari Yakumo,

MastinSSK

Just Sheep Us (2): orcinus_theoriginal, Red Gyarados
AngryPidgeon (2): Lord Business, Rancid Broderick Drake
CarbonFiber (2): Mac, Clyton
Rancid Broderick Drake (3): CarbonFiber, Just Sheep Us, PeregrineV


Not Voting (2): Titan, Breaskfast with Stalin

With 17 players alive, deadline is set for 18 days: (expired on 2014-04-18 00:01:39)

Mod note: Please note the deadline.

[PeregrineV]

Could I get a paraphrase of the neighbor QT?
I want to get a handle on F-16's trajectory there. (Pardon, ffery.)
Like...I gather he claimed the miller bit in there, but where was it, exactly? And how did he go about it? And how he treated the players he recruited?

I'm seriously thinking this could be townVtown right now.

You're kidding, right? You are trying to figure Carbon's alignment?

[Titan]

Okay I got a cupcake AND coffee...two things i'm extremely sensitive to. There's a good chance I'm going to be rambling like an idiot in a little while AND a good chance I'll pass out, so.

Anyway, I would be super duper hilariously shocked if CF flipped scum here. Like I'd just be shocked. The most recent post to ffery just felt so genuine and it resonates so.

I'm really not sure what to make of the double miller claims and I am not about to outguess the mod here. I'm starting to get the feeling I did in Faraday's upick when everyone went all pitchforks over Thor claiming miller because Faraday NEVER puts millers in his game even though I told them that I played in a Faraday modded game with a miller and no one listened to me. I don't have a clue how much of what Cabd would put in a game, but I know from talking to him that he likes to designed games that are intricate and are complex but are winnable by either side.

The things that DOES bug me and I'd love for one of muffin/nati to talk about is their claim of miller because the replica thing that Falcon is focusing on makes sense. So what about their claim shows them being a miller? That's what I want to know.

[Clyton]

Clyton, you are confusing two alternate scenarios:

1) The most likely one: RBD is scum - lynch him.

2) The much less likely one: RBD is a hater town miller. Hater claims ought to be lynched because they give town one less lynch if they are alive anyways.

~ F-16

1. Except you forgot I have my own personal views that RBD is town. My vote is not on him for a reason.

2. This point in particular makes me view you as "grasping straws". It is a debate whether you care about your survival or not, because I know if you were to be town in the end, you would enact an action that would be best for the town (getting rid of the hater before LYLO). I can make an argument that we can save RBD for later and lynch a more probable scum. Except, this more probable scum to me is you, and my rationale for voting against you will most likely fall deaf onto your ears and to the ones that supports your survival for this day.

By nature of me accepting the existence of two millers in the game, I see your CC as illogical. You were clearly focusing on the miller aspect earlier; now, you are focusing on the hated aspect of RBD, something you can confront everyone with without the need for roleclaiming.

[MastinSSK]

1) The most likely one: RBD is scum - lynch him.
2) The much less likely one: RBD is a hater town miller. Hater claims ought to be lynched because they give town one less lynch if they are alive anyways.

So basically, a policy lynch if he's town.

You are trying to figure Carbon's alignment?

Yes. You're not?

VOTE: PeregrineV.

[Clyton]

In short, spill out the beans from your own honorable mouth. Tell me bluntly your approach once again. I will townread your next following post as of right now: do you truly believe RBD is the right approach for the benefit of the town?

[PeregrineV]

Clyton, you are confusing two alternate scenarios:

1) The most likely one: RBD is scum - lynch him.

2) The much less likely one: RBD is a hater town miller. Hater claims ought to be lynched because they give town one less lynch if they are alive anyways.

~ F-16

1. Except you forgot I have my own personal views that RBD is town. My vote is not on him for a reason.

2. This point in particular makes me view you as "grasping straws". It is a debate whether you care about your survival or not, because I know if you were to be town in the end, you would enact an action that would be best for the town (getting rid of the hater before LYLO). I can make an argument that we can save RBD for later and lynch a more probable scum. Except, this more probable scum to me is you, and my rationale for voting against you will most likely fall deaf onto your ears and to the ones that supports your survival for this day.

By nature of me accepting the existence of two millers in the game, I see your CC as illogical. You were clearly focusing on the miller aspect earlier; now, you are focusing on the hated aspect of RBD, something you can confront everyone with without the need for roleclaiming.

Yuo are saying he's wrong. Fine.

Now you need to convince us of Carbon's scum motivation in counterclaiming, backing it up, and pushing for Rancid's lynch.

Because you are not just arguing with Carbon, you are voting him.

[PeregrineV]

1) The most likely one: RBD is scum - lynch him.
2) The much less likely one: RBD is a hater town miller. Hater claims ought to be lynched because they give town one less lynch if they are alive anyways.

So basically, a policy lynch if he's town.

You are trying to figure Carbon's alignment?

Yes. You're not?

VOTE: PeregrineV.

He's is so clearly town and has already proven it. The fact you are still even pushing him as scum is....illogical.

[MastinSSK]

Could I get a paraphrase of the neighbor QT?
I want to get a handle on F-16's trajectory there. (Pardon, ffery.)
Like...I gather he claimed the miller bit in there, but where was it, exactly? And how did he go about it? And how he treated the players he recruited?

Still want this, btw.

My read there is waffling bigtime. Anything you can give will help.

But my PV read isn't wavering any time soon.

[MastinSSK]

He's is so clearly town and has already proven it. The fact you are still even pushing him as scum is....illogical.

This applies to Rancid far, FAR more than it applies to Carbon.

Carbon could be town or could be scum.

Rancid is practically conftown.

[Titan]

Tammy, are you actually serious with the whole "I need to look over the claims" shit? I am pretty obviously town here and I am cc'ing RBD. Not sure what your confused about.

~ F-16

Serious as I can be!

Needing to look over the claims doesn't mean I suspect you, it means I want to look over the claims to see what makes sense. I'd be completely shocked if you were scum here pulling this, but that's not my point. I believe you believe he's the scum you're counterclaiming, but I'm not sure he's scum.

I don't really know why you're giving me a hard time about wanting to look back at things though. I mean some people give me a hard time for being too careful and reviewing things to make sure it all makes sense, but I don't know why you would.

[PeregrineV]

Could I get a paraphrase of the neighbor QT?
I want to get a handle on F-16's trajectory there. (Pardon, ffery.)
Like...I gather he claimed the miller bit in there, but where was it, exactly? And how did he go about it? And how he treated the players he recruited?

Still want this, btw.

My read there is waffling bigtime. Anything you can give will help.

But my PV read isn't wavering any time soon.

So through down a full-on Mastin analysis about why Rancid is town. You know, based on his play.

While you are waiting.

[PeregrineV]

Tammy, are you actually serious with the whole "I need to look over the claims" shit? I am pretty obviously town here and I am cc'ing RBD. Not sure what your confused about.

~ F-16

Serious as I can be!

Needing to look over the claims doesn't mean I suspect you, it means I want to look over the claims to see what makes sense. I'd be completely shocked if you were scum here pulling this, but that's not my point. I believe you believe he's the scum you're counterclaiming, but I'm not sure he's scum.

I don't really know why you're giving me a hard time about wanting to look back at things though. I mean some people give me a hard time for being too careful and reviewing things to make sure it all makes sense, but I don't know why you would.

Start with a Carbon + Rancid iso. Read that. For fun, throw in Stalin/Just Sheep Us.

[Clyton]

Clyton, you are confusing two alternate scenarios:

1) The most likely one: RBD is scum - lynch him.

2) The much less likely one: RBD is a hater town miller. Hater claims ought to be lynched because they give town one less lynch if they are alive anyways.

~ F-16

1. Except you forgot I have my own personal views that RBD is town. My vote is not on him for a reason.

2. This point in particular makes me view you as "grasping straws". It is a debate whether you care about your survival or not, because I know if you were to be town in the end, you would enact an action that would be best for the town (getting rid of the hater before LYLO). I can make an argument that we can save RBD for later and lynch a more probable scum. Except, this more probable scum to me is you, and my rationale for voting against you will most likely fall deaf onto your ears and to the ones that supports your survival for this day.

By nature of me accepting the existence of two millers in the game, I see your CC as illogical. You were clearly focusing on the miller aspect earlier; now, you are focusing on the hated aspect of RBD, something you can confront everyone with without the need for roleclaiming.

Yuo are saying he's wrong. Fine.

Now you need to convince us of Carbon's scum motivation in counterclaiming, backing it up, and pushing for Rancid's lynch.

Because you are not just arguing with Carbon, you are voting him.

I am not saying he's wrong; I see some merit in his approach. I DISAGREE with his approach.

Whether my rationale convinces you and others or not, it would not matter for my vote was already declared based on my rationale.

My rationale follows that CF was counterclaiming the miller aspect of RBD's role with the premise that only one miller exists. With this support, CF can lead a push for RBD's lynch. Many people here has pointed out the possibility of two miller roles (cause lolCabd), so CF's supporting argument was with the intent of manipulating the masses to ensure RBD's lynch. Now he targets the hated aspect of RBD. We can clearly see the disadvantage town could end up in should RBD live till LYLO. I see it as an easy way out of his predicament while getting rid of a town member who can be easily lynched by nature of their role.

[Clyton]

This is truly a gambit from CF, because there will be people like me who will throw my kind of argument as a result of scumreading.

[Titan]

The only way I see this being a gambit from CF is if this was cooked up by the scum team, but his play of if they don't flip scum lynch/vig me tomorrow thing feels pretty real. :/

[MastinSSK]

So through down a full-on Mastin analysis about why Rancid is town.

Mastin analysis is a paragraph worth of vague statements that have no backing.

Which I've been doing on Rancid for basically the whole day.

Rancid's own posting is plenty proof of that. But basically, he is entirely obvtown. The way he claimed was insanely town. His analysis I have followed perfectly. I've understood him, really "gotten" him. I see what they're thinking. It comes from that town mindset. There's no manipulation. (Aside from 'buddying' me.) There's simply posting good solid thoughts throughout the game. His reads have evolved organically rather than artificially, and basically, everything about the hydra is purely town. The trolling, lighthearted attitude maintained throughout the majority of the game as just one instance. He's not posting like scum fakeclaiming. He's posting like town, analyzing things.

And this is just a halfhearted defense of mine where I throw out random buzzwords. Because bluntly, I don't feel like arguing something that is entirely self-evident.

[Clyton]

Also PV, I have no intentions of convincing anyone (at this early juncture anyways). I am following my own views. Should a majority be convinced of a different view they are willing to pursue, then I will follow them near the hammer vote to ensure a lynch happens. Not only that, but everything I said in response was already mentioned by my earlier posts.

[CarbonFiber]

Tammy, are you actually serious with the whole "I need to look over the claims" shit? I am pretty obviously town here and I am cc'ing RBD. Not sure what your confused about.

~ F-16

Serious as I can be!

Needing to look over the claims doesn't mean I suspect you, it means I want to look over the claims to see what makes sense. I'd be completely shocked if you were scum here pulling this, but that's not my point. I believe you believe he's the scum you're counterclaiming, but I'm not sure he's scum.

I don't really know why you're giving me a hard time about wanting to look back at things though. I mean some people give me a hard time for being too careful and reviewing things to make sure it all makes sense, but I don't know why you would.

I'm sorry. I guess I was playing this game at a faster pace than some others and didn't realize that you were still trying to make sense of the whole thing. I guess what I am trying to say is that even if players aren't entirely convinced he is scum, he is still a better lynch than a deadline wagon or a no lynch. I don't want to get into a mentality of "let's make absolutely sure Rancid is scum and if we are not 100% sure, we'll lynch PV." Because the other side of the equation doesn't make sense either because if you are setting that standard for RBD, you ought to set it for any player you lynch. This is more for the rest of the town, I don't know if you in particular have any scumspects in mind.

~ F-16

[Titan]

(I haven't been around since Saturday night, I've barely skimmed the stuff from today/yesterday, and I'm trying to stay awake and make sense. So yeah, I'm a bit behind.)

[PeregrineV]

So through down a full-on Mastin analysis about why Rancid is town.

Mastin analysis is a paragraph worth of vague statements that have no backing.

Which I've been doing on Rancid for basically the whole day.

Rancid's own posting is plenty proof of that. But basically, he is entirely obvtown. The way he claimed was insanely town. His analysis I have followed perfectly. I've understood him, really "gotten" him. I see what they're thinking. It comes from that town mindset. There's no manipulation. (Aside from 'buddying' me.) There's simply posting good solid thoughts throughout the game. His reads have evolved organically rather than artificially, and basically, everything about the hydra is purely town. The trolling, lighthearted attitude maintained throughout the majority of the game as just one instance. He's not posting like scum fakeclaiming. He's posting like town, analyzing things.

And this is just a halfhearted defense of mine where I throw out random buzzwords. Because bluntly, I don't feel like arguing something that is entirely self-evident.

If it were self-evident, then Carbon wouldn't have felt the need to claim and Rancid wouldn't have all these votes on him.

I disagree with more of this, but I'm leaving now.

[MastinSSK]

his play of if they don't flip scum lynch/vig me tomorrow thing feels pretty real. :/

Copying Rancid, who made that claim first.

It didn't feel real at all. Especially since while he's certainly not BPscum, the scum having a protective PR is not out of the equation. For instance, Mafia Doc would be a nice role this game. And then there's also the lack of guarantee of there actually being a vig. Plus, assume Carbon scum. Assume someone on the scumteam is aware that players can assume two millers in a game. Then assume that after a Rancid mislynch, people bring this up as being derp-play from F-16 rather than scumplay, and that the possibility of two millers exists. Thus, a lynch on Carbon would not be assured at all, either.

Also, side-note, but F-16 made a claim near the beginning of the day that he was never getting lynched this game, ever.
I really want to see how he thought that, as a miller, when millers are designed to be a negative-utility role.


Butyeah. Again. A lot of this depends on the conversations in the neighborhood, along with their timing.

[MastinSSK]

If it were self-evident, then Carbon wouldn't have felt the need to claim and Rancid wouldn't have all these votes on him.

You mean all those three votes with you as one of them?

You have just as many votes, if not more, and Carbon's not so hot himself.

[Titan]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Titan]

Falcon - Why did you think a miller neighborizer was unlynchable in this game?