Tales of You (Endgame)

[MastinSSK]

(For the record--I should do other stuff, but basically only have PV, orc, ns/BS, and Fox/Hound to interact with.)

[Red Gyarados]

Mastin, I myself say that activity is an accurate way to read me, that my activity tis game SHOULD be changing reads.

[MastinSSK]

Mastin, I myself say that activity is an accurate way to read me, that my activity tis game SHOULD be changing reads.

Thus, tied to activity but not directly. ffery's post isn't my reason, but is kinda sorta vaguely along the lines of my own read.

[PeregrineV]

RG dropped from top tier town due to activity and due to my feeling they've kinda disconnected from the game state.

I just read some awesome GI MD posting about how these things are terrible reasons to read people over and I agree. Reasons not actions.

So the GI MD posting says this is a terrible reason for my read to soften?

hm.

Just saying this is absurdly shallow. People lose interest in games for any myriad of reasons. Giving them scumpoints or anything points for activity is lazy and not really addressing any motivation behind why they may lose interest.

So yes and its an easy point to make on top of that.

I would guess (without reading the article), that people lose interest in games based on real life and their role in the game. Is there more?

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Im not just sheeping a random MD opinion here, obviously this is something I have agreed with. Using activity for tells/reads is really not a good policy.

I don't like walling much. By my pre MS standards I've become a waller. :/ I think I said to CF sometime on day 1 that I usually respond with a thumbnail when someone asks me about a player. If they want detail, I unpack it. But most of the time people don't want detail. they want to know where I stand.

[PeregrineV]

RG dropped from top tier town due to activity and due to my feeling they've kinda disconnected from the game state.

I just read some awesome GI MD posting about how these things are terrible reasons to read people over and I agree. Reasons not actions.

So the GI MD posting says this is a terrible reason for my read to soften?

hm.

Just saying this is absurdly shallow. People lose interest in games for any myriad of reasons. Giving them scumpoints or anything points for activity is lazy and not really addressing any motivation behind why they may lose interest.

So yes and its an easy point to make on top of that.

Maybe. It's certainly not enough to cause them to slide very far scumwards. And didn't.

From what I've seen notsci doesn't usually start as strong as he did in this game as scum, though he actually did pretty well at it in the Thad's Neighborhood mini. There was a fair bit of cross-bussing between him and a scumbuddy, which gave him reasonable excuse to stay active throughout what turned out to be a game with a very apathetic town. Nati's mini normal kinda fits what I think his scum game usually looks like - some early "obvtown" posturing, buddying the players he thinks he'd buddy as town, and then the activity fades.

This game is anything but apathetic so far, so falling behind isn't lolwow or anything. Brian asked some decent questions in his catch up posts during the later part of day 1 and I stayed pretty happy with them as a result. but I don't remember him really following up on the answers to the stuff he asked about. Usually town grab a loose thread and keep pulling. So yeah, all of this could be chalked up to a fast moving game. I was thinking about the Song uPick over the night phase and notsci played what I think was his quintessential town game there. Good activity at the start that didn't totally fade out. He worked on identifying his town bloc and pushed at them to pick a direction so he could follow.

It's a stale read at this point.

You can take me back to early game. What early-game posts read as strong reasons to read Red Gyarados as town? 3-5 would suffice.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Ffery can I cash in the trust card from Song Contest to get you are to see Mastin is town. Both muffin and I are 100% certain on this read, and we correctly read her as scum in both the Open and Attack on Titan. The downright fact is, if we are wrong on this, we are collectively awful. Muffin and in are already at our wits end with this player list so please please please trust us.

I disagreed with at least half of what Nati said in this post.

Then if you're town, trust him.

I've hydra'd with Nati. I have some idea of his strengths and weaknesses in reads. When we disagree, it's not 100% that I'm wrong and he's right. It's a constellation.

One of the things that I realize is ticking me off is that both Rancid and Mac were supporters of me. (And by the way. My modus operandi as scum is to NOT kill the players supporting me. It's to fucking kill the players trying to lynch me, NKA be damned. And you can go straight to hell if you bring up "but you're not the only player on a scumteam", since when I am scum, I am the fucking president of nightkills. I'll let my scumbuddies elect a candidate, but I have to give it my seal of approval and have veto power.) But part of the reason that I'm going to try and take the plunge into the role of town leader? Is because bluntly, Rancid shoulda been there D1. He died, and I strongly believe there was a DAMN-good reason for it.

kinda depends on who comprises who the scum team is IMO. I'm also pretty generalissimo in the night game when I'm scum. I think the most challenging game I ever played in that respect was when I cult-recruited Thor and Svenskt and spent fucking hours arguing in the QT why my recruit and kill choices made the most sense. I think there was one recruit choice where I bent. And we'd have been better off if I hadn't bent, though we met our wincon anyway.

I think RBD were town. I don't think they were the scumkill.

I realize they don't have perfect accuracy as scumhunters. But they don't suck. No, they are EXCELLENT players, and their death was important. So if for nobody else if not them, then I'm pushing for a PV lynch. Oh, sure. We can and should make productive use of our time for today to discuss other things. But no other lynch (other than potentially AP) should be happening today. And while I might not be a paragon of mafia hunters, I don't suck either. I'm mediocre, not godfuckingawful. So this should be happening.

PV but not CF or BroDesp. Reads you also apparently disagree with RBD about.

Again, I'm not saying we should be speedlynching. But this wagon can, should, and will be happening today.

maybe so. Beli was against a PV lynch yesterday. I think he's disappointed that my read on AP took a turn because he thought gambitgate was prime scumposting.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

RG dropped from top tier town due to activity and due to my feeling they've kinda disconnected from the game state.

I just read some awesome GI MD posting about how these things are terrible reasons to read people over and I agree. Reasons not actions.

So the GI MD posting says this is a terrible reason for my read to soften?

hm.

Just saying this is absurdly shallow. People lose interest in games for any myriad of reasons. Giving them scumpoints or anything points for activity is lazy and not really addressing any motivation behind why they may lose interest.

So yes and its an easy point to make on top of that.

Maybe. It's certainly not enough to cause them to slide very far scumwards. And didn't.

From what I've seen notsci doesn't usually start as strong as he did in this game as scum, though he actually did pretty well at it in the Thad's Neighborhood mini. There was a fair bit of cross-bussing between him and a scumbuddy, which gave him reasonable excuse to stay active throughout what turned out to be a game with a very apathetic town. Nati's mini normal kinda fits what I think his scum game usually looks like - some early "obvtown" posturing, buddying the players he thinks he'd buddy as town, and then the activity fades.

This game is anything but apathetic so far, so falling behind isn't lolwow or anything. Brian asked some decent questions in his catch up posts during the later part of day 1 and I stayed pretty happy with them as a result. but I don't remember him really following up on the answers to the stuff he asked about. Usually town grab a loose thread and keep pulling. So yeah, all of this could be chalked up to a fast moving game. I was thinking about the Song uPick over the night phase and notsci played what I think was his quintessential town game there. Good activity at the start that didn't totally fade out. He worked on identifying his town bloc and pushed at them to pick a direction so he could follow.

It's a stale read at this point.

You can take me back to early game. What early-game posts read as strong reasons to read Red Gyarados as town? 3-5 would suffice.

How about talking about your RG read?

[PeregrineV]

SNIPPED

So the GI MD posting says this is a terrible reason for my read to soften?

hm.

Just saying this is absurdly shallow. People lose interest in games for any myriad of reasons. Giving them scumpoints or anything points for activity is lazy and not really addressing any motivation behind why they may lose interest.

So yes and its an easy point to make on top of that.

Maybe. It's certainly not enough to cause them to slide very far scumwards. And didn't.

From what I've seen notsci doesn't usually start as strong as he did in this game as scum, though he actually did pretty well at it in the Thad's Neighborhood mini. There was a fair bit of cross-bussing between him and a scumbuddy, which gave him reasonable excuse to stay active throughout what turned out to be a game with a very apathetic town. Nati's mini normal kinda fits what I think his scum game usually looks like - some early "obvtown" posturing, buddying the players he thinks he'd buddy as town, and then the activity fades.

This game is anything but apathetic so far, so falling behind isn't lolwow or anything. Brian asked some decent questions in his catch up posts during the later part of day 1 and I stayed pretty happy with them as a result. but I don't remember him really following up on the answers to the stuff he asked about. Usually town grab a loose thread and keep pulling. So yeah, all of this could be chalked up to a fast moving game. I was thinking about the Song uPick over the night phase and notsci played what I think was his quintessential town game there. Good activity at the start that didn't totally fade out. He worked on identifying his town bloc and pushed at them to pick a direction so he could follow.

It's a stale read at this point.

You can take me back to early game. What early-game posts read as strong reasons to read Red Gyarados as town? 3-5 would suffice.

How about talking about your RG read?

My read is more along the lines of "Who is less townish?"

Rancid was first in that list as an actual scumread. I'm glad he's gone.
Mastin is pooling around the bottom, mostly based on "She can't be this bad at the game."
RG and Cupcake are also near the bottom, as thier towniness level is zero.

As in, "remember when day1 I thought RG was scummy, but then he posted __________ and really blew my mind."
And "I was unsure about ______________, but then RG showed me ______________________."
Or pretty much anything that says "Yeah, I feel RG is town."

Because I can do that with
Carbon
FoxHound
Breakfast
Clyton
SheepUs
Lord Business
Yggdra Union (but not Yakuri)

Titan somewhat
Kagura somewhat

So, call it PoE, which I am not the biggest fan of. So, since you are hear and intelligible and a townread, I'd like to hear why RG is town, to you.

[AngryPidgeon]

It's a stale read at this point.

Eh, I'll buy this. RG has been hovering around my 'meh leaning towards hm' list for a bit now.

I havent really seen anything particularly interesting from that slot and NS's re-entry today looked a bit contrived with the whole "guess I'll vote mastin since BRO is" bit. I actually looked up the game they were referring to (Wicked Mafia) to see if I felt that was justified and I eh. I think NS could easily be using that as an excuse for a vote right now, I didnt find that game particularly compelling for him to be blindly sheeping BRO here, especially since BRO was long removed from it.

ALSO BRO IM QQING ABOUT THINGS IN OUR HYDRA QT, HELP.

[The Fox and the Hound]

See, now 3747 is actually a different style of post.

I imagine we'll be able to tell ns' alignment from his catchup posts pretty easily. In my experience it really is that easy.

PV, I did feel that I saw some posts that made RG strong town at one point, but they were figuratively on page 2, so I no longer care.

I feel kind of disengaged today, I need more DV in my life.

[AngryPidgeon]

Do you think AP is dumb as town?

Do you think Im dumb as scum?

[MastinSSK]

I've hydra'd with Nati. I have some idea of his strengths and weaknesses in reads. When we disagree, it's not 100% that I'm wrong and he's right. It's a constellation.

This doesn't sound like someone trusting the song contest card.

kinda depends on who comprises who the scum team is IMO.

No, it really, really doesn't. Not for me, anyway. Out of all the players I have ever been scum with since 2010, there's only been one. One. Player out of all of them. That I have EVER considered my superior, and that's Nacho. Him? Him, I'd let dictate the kill. In every other game? It's always been me. For instance? I controlled the kill to a large extent in Attack on Titan, when BROseidon was my scumbuddy. I fought for control for the scum nightkill in Anything Goes (which has Sven, Tammy, Mina, and Katsuki as scumbuddies!), and ultimately, was the one with the largest influence there. Heck! You mention Thor as someone you fought with? I controlled his scum nightkill in Walking Dead! You can't find a scum game of mine where I'm not the one controlling scum's kill, at least not when I'm alive, since that's just what I DO as scum. I create the path to victory--a path that nightkills are a part of.

Even if I'm ultimately not the one in control of the nightkill, I hold such influence over it that I might as well be. There's never a night where I let a kill go through that I don't agree with; even if it's not my primary nightkill, the kill will be a secondary or tertiary target of mine that I wanted dead anyway, just in a different night.

Neither Mac nor Rancid nor Kagura (if my theory is correct) fit this profile. Not this game, anyway.

I think RBD were town. I don't think they were the scumkill.

Then what killed them?

PV but not CF or BroDesp. Reads you also apparently disagree with RBD about.

Well, yeah, I disagree about the scumreads there on those two. Not a scumhunting god, albeit an elite scumhunter; he wouldn't be perfect. That's one area that I think he wasn't perfect in. (He totally gets a Tales-of-You card if he was, though. In addition to a Xeno-mollie card I now owe.)

I noticed you're not voting anyone. Would you be willing to vote PV?

I think he's disappointed that my read on AP took a turn because he thought gambitgate was prime scumposting.

Well, ask Beli about his other reads. I happen to agree about him on AP, but I'm not sure I'm willing to take that risk today.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

I may be leaving abruptly at any minute. Waiting for some friends to get their asses in gear so we can do an antique store run. I'll elaborate my read with some of RG's posts, but it may be a few hours before I get it into the thread. Not because it takes much time but because I may have approx zero time. I thought we'd be taking off much earlier than now.

Anyway you can probably figure at least some posts I'll pull based on my narrative in 3749.

[MastinSSK]

Do you think AP is dumb as town?

Do you think Im dumb as scum?

No. However, I

know

that you're a brilliant enough scum player to fake being dumb-as-town in a way that comes across as being really town.

[AngryPidgeon]

AP, your refusal to lynch RBD makes zero fucking sense.

Do you think that this could be alignment-indicative of AP?

You know what I'm capable of doing when I turn on.
Why the fuck aren't you working with me.

Why DO you think AP didn't work with you?

AP being strangely disconnected from me haven't helped, either.

Why do you think AP has been disconnected from you, BRO?

I feel bad trying to lynch people I'm close to.

Ask yourself if this could be interfering with your AP read.

Final questions:
What do you make of Rancid's death?
What do you make of Mac's death?

Wow. I dont think I've ever read a more thinly veiled attempt at getting someone turned against me. Especially since you are hardcore townreading BRO here so I know you arent trying to just refine that read.

What do YOU think of my refusal to lynch RBD, ffs? They were obvious town and still are. What is your point here; were my reasons for townreadingthem bad? Cause there meltdown and claim and gambits were pretty fucking town all game. I have one bit of doubt about their claim retract but the meltdown that followed that pretty well eclipses it. This is hedgy.

Also, wow. Since when have I tripped over myself to work with BRO? In hydra? Yes. Out of hydra? We have a trackrecord of butting heads that ends with me shoving his mislynch aggressively (as town) and him OMGUSing me, claiming confirmable role and getting me lynched. This thinly veiled attempt at getting BRO against me is really REALLY Xenosaga-Venmar-read levels of play from you if town.

And the main reason Im working against BRO is because I THINK YOU AND RBD ARE TOWN. JESUS. FUCK THAT THOUGH I GUESS.

[AngryPidgeon]

And like one thing at a time mastin. ONE THING. You want PV? Im willing to work with that right now. Your lack of focus IS distracting and why you are being accused of misting the thread. Its proscum.

I do appreciate 3764 though :3, you know how to butter me up. I did exactly that in GoC mafia

[AngryPidgeon]

Waiting for some friends to get their asses in gear so we can do an antique store run

This sounds intense.

[MastinSSK]

Wow. I dont think I've ever read a more thinly veiled attempt at getting someone turned against me.

Thinly veiled implies there's a veil in place when there's no cloth separating it at all. I DID say taking the mantle of town leader. I think that the townread there is wrong, but I want to understand it and see if it holds validity.

What do YOU think of my refusal to lynch RBD, ffs?

Not relevant--the bit in question is attempt to work with BROseidon. (Rather, lack thereof.) Bluntly, my take on it and your take on it is irrelevant, no matter how truthful it may be, because I'm asking what HE thinks of it. It's called a reach-out for a reason.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

I've hydra'd with Nati. I have some idea of his strengths and weaknesses in reads. When we disagree, it's not 100% that I'm wrong and he's right. It's a constellation.

This doesn't sound like someone trusting the song contest card.

I trusted it enough to unvote you in my next post. And I trusted it enough to do my utmost to kick the wheels off their wagon, which took precedence over digging into their reads.

kinda depends on who comprises who the scum team is IMO.

No, it really, really doesn't. Not for me, anyway. Out of all the players I have ever been scum with since 2010, there's only been one. One. Player out of all of them. That I have EVER considered my superior, and that's Nacho. Him? Him, I'd let dictate the kill. In every other game? It's always been me. For instance? I controlled the kill to a large extent in Attack on Titan, when BROseidon was my scumbuddy. I fought for control for the scum nightkill in Anything Goes (which has Sven, Tammy, Mina, and Katsuki as scumbuddies!), and ultimately, was the one with the largest influence there. Heck! You mention Thor as someone you fought with? I controlled his scum nightkill in Walking Dead! You can't find a scum game of mine where I'm not the one controlling scum's kill, at least not when I'm alive, since that's just what I DO as scum. I create the path to victory--a path that nightkills are a part of.

Even if I'm ultimately not the one in control of the nightkill, I hold such influence over it that I might as well be. There's never a night where I let a kill go through that I don't agree with; even if it's not my primary nightkill, the kill will be a secondary or tertiary target of mine that I wanted dead anyway, just in a different night.

Neither Mac nor Rancid nor Kagura (if my theory is correct) fit this profile. Not this game, anyway.

If we're ever on a scum team together, night discussions will be interesting. I agree with you about Nacho.

I think RBD were town. I don't think they were the scumkill.

Then what killed them?

My thought is vig. I've given some minor thought to 2 scum teams, and it might make sense of where the daytime lines get drawn, but I'm nowhere near convinced that's what's going on.

PV but not CF or BroDesp. Reads you also apparently disagree with RBD about.

Well, yeah, I disagree about the scumreads there on those two. Not a scumhunting god, albeit an elite scumhunter; he wouldn't be perfect. That's one area that I think he wasn't perfect in. (He totally gets a Tales-of-You card if he was, though. In addition to a Xeno-mollie card I now owe.)

I noticed you're not voting anyone. Would you be willing to vote PV?

Remote possibility unless Beli's read changes.

I think he's disappointed that my read on AP took a turn because he thought gambitgate was prime scumposting.

Well, ask Beli about his other reads. I happen to agree about him on AP, but I'm not sure I'm willing to take that risk today.

Thank you kindly for the advice.

[AngryPidgeon]

Not relevant--the bit in question is attempt to work with BROseidon. (Rather, lack thereof.) Bluntly, my take on it and your take on it is irrelevant, no matter how truthful it may be, because I'm asking what HE thinks of it. It's called a reach-out for a reason.

No, it is 100% relevant because at the point you start throwing the kitchen sink out without caring whether or not the kitchen sink is an actual point on me, you are trading good play for blatantly manipulative play which is scummy.

[MastinSSK]

And like one thing at a time mastin.

Gets dangerously close to confirmation bias.

I will focus on one thing at a time, and am--I am directing things towards PeregrineV. I am not focusing on him to the exclusion of all other things.

You want PV? Im willing to work with that right now.

Your (lack of) vote says otherwise.

[AngryPidgeon]

Your (lack of) vote

You're one to talk...




...

[MastinSSK]

Oh. Your post reminds me.
That's one reason I've felt you're scum.

You're playing far. FAR. More reactively this game than you should be, ESPECIALLY as a cop.
The town AP I know is more proactive and aggressive. That's not been absent for part of the game; it's been absent ALL the game.

I'll put it another way.
Town-AP is generating opinions.
Scum-AP is more concerned about opinions.
And your play this game looks like the latter. Not former.

But I digress. This is not a rock-solid tell. It's a potential alignment indicator but not a strong one. You have scum-games generating opinions and town-games being concerned about opinions, but they're bluntly not the majority.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Waiting for some friends to get their asses in gear so we can do an antique store run

This sounds intense.

cutthroat even.