Tales of You (Endgame)

[AngryPidgeon]

Pedit: that feels like a bad vote

Well, yeah. Quite explicitly. But I felt like I had to throw it out there, anyway. It felt like something that needed to be said.

It probably won't stay there longer than a day or two at most, but I kinda really want to leave it out there for a while. Because in spite of being what feels like a really bad idea, it felt good to make in spite of that.

I actually have no words anymore. It might be because its 5am. It might be because I just read what might be the most ridiculous thing I'll read on the internet. It might be because Im wondering if Mastin is the cheekiest scum player and just trolling around the thread for fun. I just. Nope. Im broke.

I do have words on the rolesotp thing though. Wouldnt a rolestop ALSO -stop a kill-? I dont see how the spec is really interesting anyhow (especially if <--- that is true) because it doesnt prove anything about KAgura. MAc wsa an extremely viable scumkill by himself.

[MastinSSK]

Oh. I'm entering into the same ffery spam I did about AP. But basically--
That thing I said about her being over-defensive would be best stated as her being more emotional than I would expect. Because I've never seen (at least that I can recall) ffery losing her cool. In every game I can recall, she's been the rational head of whatever hydra she was in, unless said event was of a much deeper personal level than it should be. (In which case she'd still have a fair chance of having been more rational. ) But here, her posting sounds like it has that, well...lack of control. Which I can't really recall seeing from a town-her.

I'm sure it exists. It'd surprise me if this was actually something of a tell for her. I've probably seen in some random hydra game or games of hers things that go against what I said, here. But it's still a large concern of mine anyway, since it IS what I feel. That this, well, burst of feelings isn't characteristic of her being town.

[Titan]

Pedit: that feels like a bad vote

Well, yeah. Quite explicitly. But I felt like I had to throw it out there, anyway. It felt like something that needed to be said.

It probably won't stay there longer than a day or two at most, but I kinda really want to leave it out there for a while. Because in spite of being what feels like a really bad idea, it felt good to make in spite of that.

I actually have no words anymore. It might be because its 5am. It might be because I just read what might be the most ridiculous thing I'll read on the internet. It might be because Im wondering if Mastin is the cheekiest scum player and just trolling around the thread for fun. I just. Nope. Im broke.

I do have words on the rolesotp thing though. Wouldnt a rolestop ALSO -stop a kill-? I dont see how the spec is really interesting anyhow (especially if <--- that is true) because it doesnt prove anything about KAgura. MAc wsa an extremely viable scumkill by himself.

Thanks ffery, that makes more sense. The link ffery posted has role stoppers as not stopping kills. But I wouldn't bet the farm on that because how would Bork know that's why it failed? It has to be something else.

[AngryPidgeon]

Oh. Another concern about ffery I should bring up.

It is. He's trying to ride what he thinks is a momentum change. It won't go far.

Is heavily implying suspicion on me. Which is sort-of supported with some in-thread reasons. But...

-Again, why no vote?

-Where did her read change from nulltown?
-This sounds an awful lot like something overly-defensive and quite frankly a bit omgusy from her.

Again, nothing absolutely concrete, here. But there's a reason I'm so concerned about her being scum.

Back, so can now explain.

that's why my townbloc is pretty small. my reads list has a few players I'm willing to lynch today.

Just mastin? Or literally 8 people? Come on, that doesnt cut it. Sitting back and cruise controlling is not getting anywhere . Try narrowing down who you want to lynch and actually, IDK, voting or otherwise talking to those people?

This is not treating Ffery as another player. This is saying a lot of things that are meant to sound protown but are really just derisive of her and accomplish nothing.

Waffling in the corner about who may or may not be OBVTOWN enough to be part of le club is not helpful and, like I said, you are never going to make the golden dream perfect townblock causem evidenced by literally every game ever.

Again. This is not an effort to work with the player in question, respecting their talents. This is not an effort to understand them. This is meant to do one thing: say, "you suck", while also encouraging them to make a reckless vote.

You have actually got to be kidding me. I call BWS out yesterday on being conservative with their vote and I get a whiteknight on them: "AP IS TRYING TO GET THEM OT MAKE A RASH VOTE" and now they are scummy for being conservative with their vote? Wow.

[MastinSSK]

Im wondering if Mastin is the cheekiest scum player and just trolling around the thread for fun.

*points to current avatar on mastin2*. Yes, as scum, I'm one of the cheekiest scumbags ever. Yes, I have a love of trolling as either alignment. (It's surprisingly addictive.) But there's no way you can possibly read that vote as being either.

[AngryPidgeon]

Thanks ffery, that makes more sense. The link ffery posted has role stoppers as not stopping kills. But I wouldn't bet the farm on that because how would Bork know that's why it failed? It has to be something else.

I missed your previous post. Ya, Mastin is specc'ing that Bork was rolestopped (and also the NK which is why Mac died). The wiki page said a rolesop may or may not work on kills. Im guessing that a BG/Stopper would probably NOT block kills cause that is self defeating.

Ya Bork was really weird about the situation though so I think this Mac-rolestopping-Kagura theory is not the only explanation for why I failed. I dont think its that worth specc'ing on cause the conclusion that mastin is trying to reach (Kagura was the NK) cannot be proven either way regardless.

[MastinSSK]

You have actually got to be kidding me. I call BWS out yesterday on being conservative with their vote and I get a whiteknight on them: "AP IS TRYING TO GET THEM OT MAKE A RASH VOTE" and now they are scummy for being conservative with their vote? Wow.

Right. And my opinion couldn't have changed in over half the games' worth of posts. (Seriously, how the fuck did you pull that up? That's literally half-way back in the fucking game. I certainly didn't even remember having made that accusation about you.)

That's the least of the problems with this quote sniping, though. I am not confident in Stalin being scum. I am not absolutely sure you are scum. Least of all am I explicitly tying your alignments together, even though I've seen interactions that make it possible you're both scum. (The reads are a good 95% separated from one another.) I'm pointing out concerns I have with her now. Among them was a lack of vote, yes. But while you also called out her lack of vote, tone is a biggie.

I asked about her lack of vote, pointing out my concern about them.
Your tone was derisive of her.

It's not the action, it's how and why the action was done. Circumstances, context, everything.

[AngryPidgeon]

Seriously, how the fuck did you pull that up?

I clicked the ISO button next to one of your posts.
I ctrl + f'd "reckless" and hit enter a few times until I saw your post about ffery making a reckless vote. I then un-selected that text, hit the quote button on the post, editted out some fluff, and posted it.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

I think there are a few players in this game who can attest to the fact that ffery-head doesn't always keep the diplomat hat firmly in place.

As far as our vote, there's no hurry. At the very least we won't be voting before we've synched about the last 24 hours or so worth of posts.

[The Fox and the Hound]

Btw, AP, BROseidon, and DV should all be posting soon, so have raised eyebrows if they don't within the next hour or two.

Seriously?

[Yggdra Union]

@Stalin
So you would townread me on one synchronized readlist?

-L

[Breakfast With Sandy]

@Stalin
So you would townread me on one synchronized readlist?

-L

Not would. Did.

Though I'd retract it in a heartbeat if I saw something later I didn't like.

I haven't. And at this point I doubt I will.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

@Stalin
So you would townread me on one synchronized readlist?

-L

Not would. Did.

Though I'd retract it in a heartbeat if I saw something later I didn't like.

I haven't. And at this point I doubt I will.

[Kagura]

But I wouldn't bet the farm on that because how would Bork know that's why it failed? It has to be something else.

It definitely is something else. If people need the long and short of it I can give it but I feel like I shouldn't do that at this point in the game.

Desperado actually brought up a good point in the neighbor QT though - it only proves that AP is some sort of investigative role, not that he is what he says he is.

-b

[Kagura]

Maybe they are town, maybe this is town!bork, but it's not unheard of that someone decides they're going to really try to put forth the effort and has the scum game of their lives even without practice.

Can we fucking kick this in the ass because you've been kinda weaving this suspicion of me all game in the form of this mild paranoia and I have no idea why.

-b

[The Fox and the Hound]

Ok, I may have skipped a few/a lot of Mastin posts and not really read other posts all that properly, but ignoring that I've read all of Day 2 and I'm here. Really tired though so what I'm posting might not make much sense, which is unfortunate considering I have things to say but you can always get me to clarify things later.

Reads (Probably some weird fusion of reads as a hydra and reads of DV):

I'm pretty sure the following are solid townreads for both Ceph and I (at the very least they are for me)

Yggdra Union
Titan
Breakfast with Stalin
Carbon Fiber
Just Sheep Us

Clyton? (? because I suspect he's less of a townread for Ceph than the others even though he's still a strong one for me)

And to be completely honest I feel like it could be anyone after that with the possible exception of AP since I think he's town in large part because of the CF thing. However, Ceph obviously didn't like the CF thing and while Ceph is open to moving our vote elsewhere we haven't really resolved our disagreement here and I don't know if we will, so AP doesn't get to go with the cool hydras + Clyton but maybe not. It's really sad I know.

I go through phases where I think Kagura is town, but ultimately I don't feel satisfied enough to put them in the top group.
I don't really know what I think of Orcinus after the governor thing. Probably needs an ISO but I'm not doing that tonight.
RedGyarados is again a slot I should probably ISO but my townread on them was stale a while ago and I haven't seen anything exciting since.
Cupcake, I don't know and don't really care that much right now.
PV is concerning, but there are town things about him too and probably doesn't match with mastin-scum (not that I've checked properly) so I'm probably waiting for when I actually decide what I'm going to do about my mastin thoughts. Look forward to those!

And then there's Mastin... So as I'm reading through I start questioning my mastin-read because she's actually sounding pretty town and not making me feel all tingly inside like she was before, but then there's the problem of how did this change happen??? It does seem odd to me that she earlier seemed pretty dead-set on scumreading us despite not really having any reasons apart from Ceph being good at scum and being unwilling to listen to anyone else about the reads (being quite open about her arrogance here), and THEN seemed to actually start listening to people and not pursue us relentlessly anymore. Other changes include more openness and actual reasons for votes and these all have me wondering whether these changes are a response to the suspicion she was gathering and an attempt to change that. I know that Ceph has severely reconsidered his read on her to the point where I'm not sure what would happen if I decided I wanted Mastin lynched, for example, so you couldn't say that it hasn't worked to some degree. As always though, there are doubts as to whether or not these are actually good reasons to reconsider my read, so when it comes to Mastin I'm really just a wishy-washy ball of nothing. I'm going to ISO her tomorrow to see if what I'm thinking is plausible, but I'm really not sure at the moment. There's also the fact that I haven't read a whole chunk of Day 1...

So yeah, that's where I'm at right now and I really do wish to be more involved but between this game being.. not the most fun of games to read through, and RL being RL, I'm not really that into it. I will keep reading and hopefully do the ISOs I've been promising and post my opinion of things, but I'm not too sure how that will go, especially when it comes to my opinion vs. Ceph's.

Oh also, Ceph's obviously free to point out if his reads wildly differ where I haven't said they do or I have his opinion on something wrong. We've only talked a little recently so it's definitely possible.

I will

Unvote: AngryPidgeon

too since I think our vote is there.

[Kagura]

If you want to see me back in this game spiritually 100%, you'd maybe actually give 2-shits when I explain why I think your Nacho read is shitty instead of trying to pin a case on me for it that doesnt even make sense.

So wait are you actually still thinking I'm scum?

Because that doesn't jibe at all with the conclusion I thought I saw you come to about me.

-b

[The Fox and the Hound]

Oh also, lack of communication on our part is definitely my fault and not Ceph's, to make things clear.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

there is an art to building suspense

[Just Sheep Us]

hey ffery i found your reads lists

towntowntown (nascent townbloc)

Mac
GiF - at the time he posted his reads list I was p amazed at how closely it matched my own thoughts. And I'd been pretty cagey with my thoughts at that point. I think the points of synchronicity were genuine.
kagura

Town

Rancid Broderick Drake
Fox & Hound
Titan
Carbon Fiber
orcinus

Maybe Town

Just Sheep Us - not scum with AP?
Red Garydos - strong townread went stale, but I do p much like the stuff that Brian has been posting today.
Cupcake Panda
AP - not scum with BroDesp? AP read has faded. I'm not sure if it's an influenced fade, but maybe.
Lord Business
Clyton
Peregrine

Not So Town

MastinSSK (scum read for beli, null/null-town for ffery)

list isn't seriatim

Not a lot of scum reads. :/

Right now I'd draw my don't-lynch-above-this line just below RG.

In answer to the question I asked GiF (and am still waiting for an answer), I would say that my most controversial read is GiF, given his very low level of activity so far. But, the reads list he posted mirrored my impressions at that point in time more strongly than anything else I've seen in the game thread.

revised reads list:

towntowntown

Mac - first bet the farm town read of the game

Yggdra Union/GiF - they've been town since GiF's first reads list, as I mentioned in our first reads list

kagura (with some mild reservations)

Rancid Broderick Drake - I'm not belaboring this read any more. I think it's a you get it or you don't and never will sort of thing

Carbon Fiber

Just Sheep Us - reaction to being run up

Titan - tentatively in top tier for now. may firm up with more reread

orcinus - so there are reasons why the proven governor ability isn't a for sure town ability, but my gut has a huge town reaction to how orcinus handled this, and the reaction crystallized when he asked us if we were ok with being invited to this shindig.

Lord Business - reaction to thunderdome looks pretty damn town to me.

Pretty Town

Fox & Hound
Red Garydos

Maybe Town

Cupcake Panda
AP - town because claim, without claim still pretty null
Clyton
Peregrine

Not So Town

MastinSSK (scum read for beli, null/null-town for ffery)

I question how many players are apparently somewhat immune to various sorts of violence in this game. One of the immunity claims is probably scum.

so i mean yeah, this is you copying down everyone's name and putting them into alignment tiers. cool. but you don't have a single scumread in either one? it's kinda disingenuous to claim that your stances are transparent and impossible to miss when for all intents and purposes your reads are just one giant fart in the wind.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

At the end of the day yesterday, I had nothing but shades of town and PoE starting with my "Maybe Town" group, including the line below which I said I was willing to lynch. I could have called that group scumreads, but they weren't and I didn't. And won't in any game while I don't have a strong scum sense from any players.

That is transparency. Claiming an assurance I don't feel is not transparent.


Beli had his Mastin scum read but didn't want to push it if I didn't also think Mastin's scum. I voted Mastin prior to Nati's Song trust card appeal.

[Just Sheep Us]

my point was more that you have/had no scumreads and you aren't/haven't been pushing any lynches

^this brings whatever transparency level you think you have down to zero because you aren't leaving a trail anywhere. you're just there, calling everyone various shades of town and participating in shitty deadline lynches after waffling all day on real wagons.

[Just Sheep Us]

ps i've seen you be transparent town several times before

this shit ain't it

[Breakfast With Sandy]

ps i've seen you be transparent town several times before

this shit ain't it

Oh but it is. It's a very clear view into confusion. And the confusion's center was to some extent still is disagreeing with people first on the fox&hound read and then later on the RBD read. I can't see the gamestate you're seeing, that would lead you to conclude RBD is scum. And that led directly to where I had you in my reads list prior to late day 1.

I still don't see the gamestate that leads you to that read, but I'm convinced you're town now.

To me, this game strongly reminds me of the Deaths Diner game in that there was stuff going on in the town (the neighborhood) that was impacting people's reads and stances, but it was like an iceberg. The reasons for those stances weren't visible to me.

[Just Sheep Us]

who is scum, ffery?