Tales of You (Endgame)

[AngryPidgeon]

Has there ever been a game where mastin, as engaged town, has really been so lost in herself while simultaneously attempting to keep everyone else's egos in check? I have trouble imagining her not making ego checks every once in a while when she says things like what she said to BRO earlier.

Are you referring to the post where she told BRO never to play with her again if he was town? I just remembered that; that post left a bad taste in my mouth at the time.

[Nachomamma8]

THESE TWO THOUGHTS ARE.
HAVE BEEN.
AND ALWAYS WILL BE.
MUTUALLY. FUCKING. EXCLUSIVE.

He was town, you are scum.
Guess it's not mutually exclusive!

ffery threw her diplomat hat on the ground, and stomped on it. Repeatedly.

How so?

As scum, there is a detachment from the argument. I might curse, I might shout, but there is an agenda to my words.
WHAT IS THE AGENDA.
WHAT IS THE PLAN.

You want ffery to run interference between the CF-JSU crowd and you, since she's acted as mediator earlier in the game for a pretty long time. She starts to turn against you, you start to turn against her.
You know, like what happened with me?

AP's post about the wall was horrible, though.

Your wall was worse.

[Nachomamma8]

Has there ever been a game where mastin, as engaged town, has really been so lost in herself while simultaneously attempting to keep everyone else's egos in check? I have trouble imagining her not making ego checks every once in a while when she says things like what she said to BRO earlier.

Are you referring to the post where she told BRO never to play with her again if he was town? I just remembered that; that post left a bad taste in my mouth at the time.

Yep.
Why would mastin-town be make that post? Initially, I thought it was because mastin was frustrated with the gamestate and pretty much snapped, but I don't really think that makes a whole lot of sense at this point.

[Nachomamma8]

And I hate how she talks about her emotions instead of shows them.

[AngryPidgeon]

And I hate how she talks about her emotions instead of shows them.

, this is actually one of the things I look for a lot. People talking about how they feel without expressing it. It makes for shitty literature and scummy posts. I thought mastin has felt fairly emotional at places, but its possible Im misremembering that. IDK, I was extremely involved in the whole mastin v AP debacle that led to Cf calling us scum theater and I felt mastin was fairly equally involved, so I may have been biased? I'll keep thi in mind though; I dont think Ive ever actually seen anyone mention this as a point on anyone and I almost always look at this behind the curtains in my games.

[Nachomamma8]

Is that scummy though? Ranting about peripheral nonsense in the thread isn't exactly a scumtell and I really really -can- see Mastin thinking this way as town. I'll give you that yes it CAN be scum motivated, but I dont think there is any reason to assume that is the case or the only case. What recent things make you think this is just blatant bulllshit from mastin?

When he goes "Nacho isn't sorting me, my #1 priority is to sort mastin", then doesn't sort or engage me and goes on a dream rant, yes, it's scummy. I don't think town-Mastin procrastinates in digging into me when he has a goal and he has a need. I think scum-Mastin procrastinates, produces bullshit in the meantime, and then goes for it.

What's also wonderful is that Mastin's apparently gotten that the case I've provided on him is that he's spamming + repeating the same thing over and over again. Do you think that's my case on him?

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho, why did you roleblock me last night?

If I were scum, I would have roleblocked you for obvious reasons.

[AngryPidgeon]

Nacho, why did you roleblock me last night?

If I were scum, I would have roleblocked you for obvious reasons.

Uhhhhhhhh, is this a claim then?

What's also wonderful is that Mastin's apparently gotten that the case I've provided on him is that he's spamming + repeating the same thing over and over again. Do you think that's my case on him?

TBH I had no idea what your case on mastin was until like 5 minutes ago. Now you are arguing that mastin is being opportunistic in sheeping people's doubt on you for easy towncred and that shes not actually made any effort towards scumhunting you. I don't really have a good response for either of those.

--

I tried to find that MAstin post about BRO to remember the context, but I cant seem to find it. God I wonder why that is.

[Nachomamma8]

"I don't really trust anyone" *next line* "I'm basically trusting you".

Why do you think that's scummy?

And again. Really, really. Don't think. AP would ever truly consider. An actual policy-lynch.

Why not?

And his posting really doesn't seem to be reflecting these as his scumreads.

Again, why not?

Thus, why focusing on what was obviously a typo was...
...Nothing but a distraction.

The distraction would be nothing but a waste of time for scumAP: why would he pursue it?

[AngryPidgeon]

Thus, why focusing on what was obviously a typo was...
...Nothing but a distraction.

Wait to be clear, since Nacho just requoted this.

Are you SCUMREADING me over this? Realizing of course that Im not the only person to mistake it for a serious post.

[CarbonFiber]

@ RedGyarados

:

I don't remember anything from Bro indicating the italicized portion. The issue I have with JSU is them hiding out in their neighborhood and not really bleeding anything into the game thread until AP showing up. And when AP did show up, Bro comes up with some half-assed reason to townread AP. I still don't like it but you guys say he's been town as shit in his neighborhood.

Notty still hasn't given me an opinion on what alignment he thinks RBD is (or some of the other slots for that matter, still don't think he's fully caught up), even though I gave him that assignment like 4 days ago. I was townreading RBD yesterday, and I don't think my opinion is going to change without a full reread (not happening anytime soon unless I feel like giving up my Friday for it) or the person with his alignment information comes forward (not something I'm interested in pursuing right now).

JSU have been more active since their slow entrance into the thread and have been increasingly vocal and active as time goes by. I do think that some of their intermediate thought processes and read progressions are hidden in the neighborhood but the trend has been towards more openness. I think more than AP's replacement, it was Rancid's response to their vote on them that spurred them into action.

This is one of the things that I brought up to Notty when he said he thought Nacho was scum. His reasoning is 90% spite for recent games (10% reasoning that I actually agree with). I just think Nacho is more likely to deflect onto easy mislynches when he's scum. The timing of the Orci wagon was terrible and something I don't think would have benefited town at all.

Do you think that his showing up near deadline makes him town or scum? Can you clarify this? I think in more recent games, Nacho has been whiteknighting townies a lot towards deadline. For instance in NY169 (I think this happened after you replaced out), he spent quite a bit of time defending both me and Varsoon-Mac hydra and then left and the deadline lynch was decided by the people who were online a few hours before deadline.

---
Brian's post resonates with me and re-inforces my townread. Posts like the following are good points:

I still stand by that comment, by the way (even if it's something I won't be giving any credence in the future). Although, it was more of me just removing GiF from my Day 1 lynch pool. I liked the way Pie came in and immediately pushed Mastin upon replacing in (and that was where my actual read came from, I'm pretty sure I stated something along these lines at the end of Day 1), but that's pretty much dissipated. I know Pie tunnels, but his lack of anything Day 2 aside from going after Mastin is dissipating my read on him.

I was townreading Pie for the same reasons and the read going stale is reasonable. BUT, he's still been town-town-town in the neighborhood so I guess you should just wait for him to return.

This is actually one of the things I brought up to Notty when I was catching him up about a week ago? We both agreed that you coming out of the gates and hard scumreading AP and AP to just continue townreading you was really weird. Especially after AG where he was gung-ho about lynching you for it.

I agree. I was scumreading Mastin at that time and I thought AP's reaction felt off which led me to think they might both be scum.

I'll revisit your case on him later. But it's kind of hard to agree with you when I've been agreeing with a lot of Mastin's and RBD's points this game.

What specifically? I had the opposite reaction to most of their posts.

Also, can you please get those Notty walls in thread. I'd love to see where you guys are at.

I'd like details on what's actually going on in that neighborhood of yours. It's annoying me that I can't see it and I want to know what Nacho's been up to in there.

Give me specifics on what you want details on. There's about 20 pages in there. I explained my read on BRO-Desp read in that wall. I am actually unsure about my read on Nacho-Bork and they haven't posted a lot in there. It is mostly me, BRO-Desp, and PieInFreezer.

Regarding people you won't miss (Kagura, Clyton, PV, Cupcake), I would miss the last two quite a bit but I am unsure about the first two. Also, you seemed to disagree with Mastin quite a bit in your wall. How does that affect your read on him?

[CarbonFiber]

Why are these townreads? PV I can almost see. His frustration with mastin at places made me waver on my read a bit (although Im concerned I just WANT to agree with it). I havent read too much of PV v Tammy in depth Today although I dont see why PV would necessarily stick his neck out like that if he didn't have to.

Panda though? Why panda?

I explained my Panda read to PV a while ago but you said you didn't like it because it was based on meta. I doubt you'll like it now because it is still based on meta.

[Yggdra Union]

ok so there's a few things I got from the past few pages

-Nacho is town and I'll never support anything resembling a lynch on him
-I don't like anything AP did recently. his entire push on CF sucks ass
-mastin has spent this entire game day calling AP scum but he keeps looking for excuses to get off the wagon or vote someone else. personally I think this points towards mastin x AP team, but it could also make sense as mastin scum not wanting to antagonize AP town
-mastin has literally ACKNLOWLEDGED she's been flooding the thread with bullshit and her response to that is? continue flooding the thread with bullshit. sounds legit
-THIS GAME HAS TOO MUCH DAMN NOISE AND AD HOMINEM AND YOU ALL NEED TO CUT IT THE FUCK OUT. I'd pay cash money for a vig shot on mastin right now just to stop all the fucking posts

I really just wanna lynch mastin already and be done with it. plz and thx

-Y

[CarbonFiber]

Players claiming to be doing NKA and to some extent VCA are liars if they don't take that into consideration for their read on me. 'Cause that?
Is not some trivial fucking statistic. That is extremely relevant to the whole core of the game.

Mastin, while I disagree that the reads of dead players who are familiar with you should be trusted (I've said the same thing as both town and scum so HMMMM), actually attacking people for not agreeing with you is pretty ridiculous.

also in case it wasn't clear, the uh???? was in reference to you not wanting to intereact with mastin at all this day phase while simultaneously believing that sorting mastin is the key to unlocking the gamestate fypov

I feel really similar to ffery to be fair. I mean theoretically I should be reading mastin's posts closely/interacting with her so I can either decide that I agree with Ceph's recent town thoughts about her or confirm my scumread so I can better discuss the read with Ceph, but am I actually going to do that? I don't think so.

I think with mastin it's gotten to the point (at least in my mind) where there's just SO MUCH posting and a lot of it to me feels like what I would expect from scum, but a lot of it also feels like it could be from town and makes me doubt my read. Being my almost-zero-confidence self I don't know whether or not I should be trusting that, and with all the conflicting content, trying to figure out whether it's scum faking town-ness but slipping up at times, or just me calling things scummy that aren't, has become such a chore that I'm pretty done with it myself. Obviously the confidence thing doesn't apply to everyone, but not really being up to interacting with Mastin is completely understandable imo and I think some of the above may be reasons for others as well.

Ceph has other obligations at the moment and I won't push a vote without him unless I feel that it becomes necessary, but where

I

am at is that I have a legitimate scumread on Cupcake which I'd probably be more ok with lynching now than I was when I voted, but I'd also be quite willing to lynch Mastin. Obviously Ceph thinks Mastin's town though and I haven't heard back from him about the former so I don't know where we'll end up.

What are the rest of your reads looking like at the moment? Also, have you played with Cupcake/Katsuki before?

[Yggdra Union]

vote: mastin

here's how this is going to go. if you are not voting mastin, your next post must contain a vote for mastin, or else a counter to this:

mastin's reaction to BRO was

100% a scum reaction

. town actually gives a shit about the other players in the game. he does not.

because he is deliberately trying to induce apathy and feelings of despair in town.

he's scum who doesn't know how to react to it going to o far, so he jsut ignores it and hopes he can just skate by.

for anyone who has any doubts, note how mastin literally has no defense for it. so he tries to write it off my misrepping the situation:

Oh, you meant BRO's wall.

Bluntly, I didn't read it all. I skimmed.

I saw him having a meltdown for having been suddenly scumread.

That's the part of the meltdown that would remain even if he changed his mindset, though he's not getting lynched anymore meaning even then he's going to be less stressed.
I also saw the remaining being ranting about how Rancid and I are obvscum and manipulating everyone and that he's right and getting lynched again in spite of that, again.

If I missed something that doesn't fit into one of those two categories, let me know. Because the first is no longer relevant, and the second I addressed by simply pointing out him changing his erroneous read would fix. 'Cause he's wrong. I know that sounds bad to say to someone having an emotional breakdown, that bluntly, they're wrong. But he is, soyeah. It needed to be said.

the bolded is a

literal and direct misrep of what happened

. in no way was BRO's meltdown in response to being "suddenly scumread" - that was just one factor among many.

"fixing an erroneous read" doesn't change the fact that mastin and zmuffin have pulled every fucking emotionally manipulative trick in the book and flooded the thread with their bullshit mist

the italicized directly proves my point - he literally does not give a flying fuck about how much he's pissed off another player. QED.


also, mastin, if you respond to this post I'll take it as a scum claim. if you're town you will gain literally nothing from responding to this, and if you're scum I don't wanna give you easy material to keep BS'ing about (bc it's obviously what your strategy has been so far). your responses to me have all been deflective, manipulative, or otherwise not remotely town and I've had enough of your shit. plz and thx

-Y

^ I still want responses to this

the fact that no one has been able to counter this should demonstrate to you all how obvscum mastin is at thisp oint. but let me take it a step further:

put yourself in BRO's shoes and try to imagine what you'd feel in his position. now imagine someone COMPLETELY NOT GIVING A SHIT ABOUT YOU WHATSOEVER. don't you imagine that'd have a really adverse effect on your feelings towards the game? mb I'm biased bc I've had similar problems before, but just fucking try it

this holds true for any townie, but with mastin especially.

he literally does not give a shit about working with town and the health of town as a collective. this is not a town mastin.

[Titan]

Brian - it doesn't matter if scum know what or where I am right now. Claiming had a potential upside and very little downside if he was scum as well.

Okay. It wasn't alignment indicative for me, I just thought it was weird. You two also have a QT all to yourselves, so it's no different from if it were a designed two-person neighborhood, in my opinion. And I'm also pretty sure the next time I claim to Desp in a neighborhood unprompted, he's going to tunnel the shit out of me.

Ah well. He claimed to me and his claim was pretty townish, there's just the every so slight paranoid hair standing up on the back of my neck but it's nothing too worrisome, so I claimed partly in return due to that, partly because even if he is scum it doesn't matter a whole lot and potential upsides/downsides available.

Also - I'm not town reading desp ro or ap, but I wouldn't really lynch either today, I guess anyway. I don't even remember making that post but the karate kid quote suggests wine was involved :p

Tbqh, I don't even know if you made that post to begin with. And I don't know what Karate Kid quote you're referring to. I don't quote movies so it can't be me.

Oh no it definitely came from me. That post had me written all over it. I just don't remember making it

(It was the post that said strike first strike hard no mercy sir)

~~~~~

So, a couple years ago, in two separate games in which Mastin was scum in both. At the same time, he had dreams about the game and they both involved him being the hero of the game. Now a lot of people dream about mafia. I dream about mafia all the time and reference in it games when it happens, but I can't help but remember the last two times I saw Mastin have these grandiose dreams which were metaphors for what he was supposed to do in the game, he was scum.

[CarbonFiber]

Another concern I had about Mastin was that his whole development into the town leader persona felt like he was telling a narrative about himself which was the same thing he did in ETL's resistance where I was scum with him.

[Titan]

Another concern I had about Mastin was that his whole development into the town leader persona felt like he was telling a narrative about himself which was the same thing he did in ETL's resistance where I was scum with him.

That was where part of my resolve that he was scum at the time started to falter. (I wasn't joking when I told Pere my read on him has changed every five minutes.) But I was like would he, as scum, construct this whole narrative? I mean it kinda reminded me of him in the scum qt of Anything Goes, but in game, I've never seen it.

But, his whole scum don't make/like noise point is trash. Scum love noise.

~~~~~

Pie - Find a new point. That one's been beaten to death by you. If it hasn't convinced people, it's not going to by you yelling it again.

[Titan]

Falcon - What did you think of nacho's posting today?

[Yggdra Union]

I found two

-mastin has spent this entire game day calling AP scum but he keeps looking for excuses to get off the wagon or vote someone else. personally I think this points towards mastin x AP team, but it could also make sense as mastin scum not wanting to antagonize AP town
-mastin has literally ACKNLOWLEDGED she's been flooding the thread with bullshit and her response to that is? continue flooding the thread with bullshit. sounds legit

-Y

[CarbonFiber]

Another concern I had about Mastin was that his whole development into the town leader persona felt like he was telling a narrative about himself which was the same thing he did in ETL's resistance where I was scum with him.

That was where part of my resolve that he was scum at the time started to falter. (I wasn't joking when I told Pere my read on him has changed every five minutes.) But I was like would he, as scum, construct this whole narrative?

Yeah, scum love noise. But wouldn't he create a narrative? He has in the past:

I quite like the narrative that I built.

You might be thinking about the narrative showing a masterful RC-SC-DS scumteam. But I'm not talking about that narrative. That narrative, while masterful, is not the true piece of artwork, here. I've told a story, here, a story that involves that story, and that story, that masterful piece of writing I consider to be a piece of art, which I worked hard and long to tell? Is the story of Me. Mastin. Slowly but progressively. Growing back into being me. You can see the narrative grow over time.

The posts start out random, with little order to them. Guesswork. Fragmentations. Representing my broken mind. But as the narrative of my catch-up continues, you progressively can find me growing back into my role. I slowly find a direction. The pieces become more focused. I begin to hone in on things. And then, I make a discovery. A discovery that in a game would cause me to "flip the switch", and from there, I go into top-form. With everything being right on the point. Everything tying together. Instead of being the story, I begin to tell a story of my own. (Thus, why the RC-SC-DS scumteam story is part of the narrative, but isn't the entirety of it.)

And at the end, there's the realization. That I've grown. That I'm back. That I am who I am meant to be. That I've gone from the slums and picked myself back up, into the person I really am.



...And THAT, my friends, is why I'm a storyteller. (I love writing. ) Most people seem to think you can only tell a story in certain mediums, like a book, like a movie, like a comic. Maybe in a game from the flavor side of things. But me? I can tell a story INSIDE the game, entirely separated from whatever flavor there is. I told the story of RC-SC-DS, but that story is within the story I created of ME.

And I think that's where the true skill of me comes in as a player. In that while other players can see individual "characters" involved...I can see the entire "story" of a game play out in my mind.

It might seem confusing, but it's really awesome once you grasp the concepts I'm talking about.

[Titan]

LOL

[Titan]

I found two

-mastin has spent this entire game day calling AP scum but he keeps looking for excuses to get off the wagon or vote someone else. personally I think this points towards mastin x AP team, but it could also make sense as mastin scum not wanting to antagonize AP town
-mastin has literally ACKNLOWLEDGED she's been flooding the thread with bullshit and her response to that is? continue flooding the thread with bullshit. sounds legit

-Y

I'm pretty sure everyone who thinks Mastin is scum is right here with these points.

[Yggdra Union]

speaking of spinning narratives, what would be the first thing scum mastin who has a townread from RBD does?

if you guessed "spin narratives about 'omg RBD is townreading me, they never misread me, etc. etc.' and keep bringing it up every time someone scumreads me", congrats. now look at what he's dong here. QED

this angle is complete bullshit coming from mastin anyway. it's just bad play to completely trust RBD's read - even if RBD is town, there's still a good chance mastin was able to fool him. it also directly contradicts his stance he's been pushing all game about being successfully able to manipulate people as scum.

-Y

[CarbonFiber]

I'm almost ready to have another go at this.

It looks from these two pages like PV is scum.

Can you elaborate on this?