Mini 1567 - Such Unusual Pretermen... ...Evil Too!

Empking · Post Post #225 (ISO) » Sat May 03, 2014 6:57 am

Vote Count Ten: Here we go again

Not Voting: geists, Kagami, Zephyrus, FormerFish, Cho, MTD, PhDScar, Belisarius, Juls, Nobody Special, Who

With Eleven alive, it is Six to lynch

(expired on 2014-05-17 13:57:32)

Kagami · Post Post #226 (ISO) » Sat May 03, 2014 7:06 am

I'm presuming that was a vig shot, and that any scum NKs were prevented.

VOTE: Belisarius

fferyllt · Post Post #227 (ISO) » Sat May 03, 2014 10:35 am

It probably was a vig shot. A suboptimal one.

geists · Post Post #228 (ISO) » Sat May 03, 2014 10:36 am

In post 227, fferyllt wrote:It probably was a vig shot. A suboptimal one.

yeah me

geists · Post Post #229 (ISO) » Sat May 03, 2014 10:51 am

Hi Beli

In post 180, Belisarius wrote:What, because Kagami stipulated "that means vanilla?"

Stipulation rejected, and even were it to be accurate,
we've established that there are likely to be role-altering mechanics in play, so that makes it irrelevant.

^^ This

[post]I don't know what the fuck kind of gambit shit Who is trying to pull, but I'm far from confident that Josh will flip scum.[/quote]

^^ and this

appear to be a disconnect. What made you think Who's guilty claim details were gambit shit and not role-altering mechanics?

geists · Post Post #230 (ISO) » Sat May 03, 2014 11:22 am

Unsynched ffery reads

Town

Who - gunsmith guilty on josh b. off chance it was a bus, but IMO very unlikely. The amount of scrutiny he was coming under prior to that wasn't at cut-your-losses level.

Juls - never played with her. Synching on a bunch of points (mostly after my stances were in the thread, which is the only reason to downgrade my read) early in the game suggests both a similar approach to mafia and a shared wincon. I await the usual objections to this sort of thumbnail.

Cho - the relaxed pushback about prolonging rvs felt town to me (compare to Zephyrus, Formerfish). She was first to put a vote on josh. The vote hit the thread prior to who's reveal.

MDT - liked the directions of his questions and his reactions as the who-claim stuff unfolded. This is a slightly weaker read than the others mostly because of timing. A scum player who anticipates town herd movements well would have been right about where and when his posts were, and would have produce pretty much that content.

Maybe Town

Kagami - her push against the weakish points made early on Josh_b's first couple of posts could be scum-motivated, but overall meh. Also the rvs-meta convo seemed pretty meh from her end. It was an oddity to push no matter who had posted it.
Belisarius - the pushback about Who's claim doesn't bother me, but I am a little bothered by the disconnect I asked about earlier. Overall, it's not what I'd think scum-Beli would do about a scumbuddy twisting in the wind.
Nobody Special - early involvement isn't typical of his townplay IME.

Not So Town

FormerFish - short day 1, but he has not impressed so far.
Zephyrus - defensive about rvs vote being questioned. Ignored non-rvs content already in the thread, late-ish vote on Josh with no commentary on the claim and the discussion it kicked off. Only question he asked really was "why mass claim so early"

Put aside for now

PhDScar

Belisarius · Post Post #231 (ISO) » Sat May 03, 2014 12:08 pm

In post 229, geists wrote:Hi Beli

In post 180, Belisarius wrote:What, because Kagami stipulated "that means vanilla?"

Stipulation rejected, and even were it to be accurate,
we've established that there are likely to be role-altering mechanics in play, so that makes it irrelevant.
^^ This

[post]I don't know what the fuck kind of gambit shit Who is trying to pull, but I'm far from confident that Josh will flip scum.

^^ and this

appear to be a disconnect. What made you think Who's guilty claim details were gambit shit and not role-altering mechanics?[/quote]

It would be a disconnect if gambits and role-altering mechanics were mutually exclusive; I didn't think that Who's claim was actually based on role-altering mechanics at the time, although given Josh's flip, I have to let go of that belief. I thought it was a gambit.

Maybe I'm just not understanding why you think it has to be one or the other?

geists · Post Post #232 (ISO) » Sat May 03, 2014 1:10 pm

In post 231, Belisarius wrote:
In post 229, geists wrote:Hi Beli

In post 180, Belisarius wrote:What, because Kagami stipulated "that means vanilla?"

Stipulation rejected, and even were it to be accurate,
we've established that there are likely to be role-altering mechanics in play, so that makes it irrelevant.
^^ This

I don't know what the fuck kind of gambit shit Who is trying to pull, but I'm far from confident that Josh will flip scum.
^^ and this

appear to be a disconnect. What made you think Who's guilty claim details were gambit shit and not role-altering mechanics?
It would be a disconnect if gambits and role-altering mechanics were mutually exclusive; I didn't think that Who's claim was actually based on role-altering mechanics at the time, although given Josh's flip, I have to let go of that belief. I thought it was a gambit.

Maybe I'm just not understanding why you think it has to be one or the other?

It was noteworthy to me that you reacted "gambit" to something that I felt pretty sure at the time Who was describing as an altered role. And I thought if you were expecting role-altering mechanics you would have picked up that implication. And that if you thought it was a gambit, you would have seen it as a gambit involving role-altering mechanics, if that makes sense.

And I didn't get that from this post.

Kagami · Post Post #233 (ISO) » Sat May 03, 2014 1:10 pm

I'm fine with the possibility that you thought it was a gambit, but for me the oddity is the lack of confidence that Josh was scum. Josh was terribly obv-scum and whether or not the investigation was real, he seemed almost certain to flip scum to me.

Agree with geists on who, juls, cho, MDT town. I think NS belongs in there too.

Don't think beli should be in maybe town. Zeph is null to me, but I agree that formerfish doesn't look good; and replacing firestarter is even more damning.

Disagree that the vig shot was bad, though obviously suboptimal. Vezok was a good choice, imo.

geists · Post Post #234 (ISO) » Sat May 03, 2014 1:12 pm

In post 233, Kagami wrote:Disagree that the vig shot was bad, though obviously suboptimal. Vezok was a good choice, imo.

Why do you think Vezok was a good choice?

Kagami · Post Post #235 (ISO) » Sat May 03, 2014 1:15 pm

It's hard to answer that because of site-wide rules.

Kagami · Post Post #236 (ISO) » Sat May 03, 2014 1:17 pm

I guess it's safe to say that I think he was indeed possible scum who legit was trying to protect a buddy. I know it seems crazy that someone would be so overt, but I think it's possible. I also would rather he not be around as the game progresses, and I think it's unlikely that he wouldn't remain alive.

Belisarius · Post Post #237 (ISO) » Sat May 03, 2014 1:30 pm

In post 232, geists wrote:It was noteworthy to me that you reacted "gambit" to something that I felt pretty sure at the time Who was describing as an altered role. And I thought if you were expecting role-altering mechanics you would have picked up that implication. And that if you thought it was a gambit, you would have seen it as a gambit involving role-altering mechanics, if that makes sense.

And I didn't get that from this post.

I'm too thick to work out how gambits work ahead of time. I saw no link between role alteration and gambits then, and I see none now.

Formerfish · Post Post #238 (ISO) » Sat May 03, 2014 2:36 pm

I don't give a shit if I'm not impressing anyone. We basically had a guilty all day yesterday and before I had much of a chance to do anything the day was over. At this point I think the best thing we can do is go back and see who stuck up for josh in anyway, like seeing who voted Who after he claimed. I would hazard a guess that one of them are scum trying to discredit the guilty to save a scumbag from a d1 lynch.

Nobody Special · Post Post #239 (ISO) » Sat May 03, 2014 2:45 pm

That would be you, Josh, and vezok.

Now what?

Belisarius · Post Post #240 (ISO) » Sat May 03, 2014 3:32 pm

In post 239, Nobody Special wrote:That would be you, Josh, and vezok.

Now what?

And me. I stuck up for Josh. I just didn't vote Who.

Formerfish · Post Post #241 (ISO) » Sat May 03, 2014 3:55 pm

In post 239, Nobody Special wrote:That would be you, Josh, and vezok.

Now what?

Do you selectively read usually? I voted for Who during rvs, and then unvoted after the guilty. I guess my idea isn'tgoing tto go anywhere though since the only other person to vote Who was night shot. Guess it wasn't that bad of a shot when you think about it.

geists · Post Post #242 (ISO) » Sat May 03, 2014 4:03 pm

I think bussing is something to consider.

Formerfish · Post Post #243 (ISO) » Sat May 03, 2014 4:11 pm

Are we ignoring Who's claim on changing roles?

geists · Post Post #244 (ISO) » Sat May 03, 2014 4:22 pm

In post 243, Formerfish wrote:Are we ignoring Who's claim on changing roles?

what are your thoughts?

Formerfish · Post Post #245 (ISO) » Sat May 03, 2014 4:33 pm

I am inclined to believe something happened with him. I know that the role I chose has nothing to do with my role pm. I have to believe that we had a night startfor a reason, and his stated original role, and what happened to him would fit well with a n0. I don't know if alignment changes could happen here, was this a bastard game when it was put out there?

Formerfish · Post Post #246 (ISO) » Sat May 03, 2014 4:44 pm

Actually, the more I think about it the more I believe that alignment isn't something that would change. It would have potential to break the game in such q fashion that one scum switched to town would probably be game over. So it looks like it is going to cone down to whether you believe that scum would come out of the gates bussing one of their own for no discernible reason. I do not think they would do that here without a predicating event.

geists · Post Post #247 (ISO) » Sat May 03, 2014 4:48 pm

this is where we start.

vote: kagami

amazing synch by phone achieved.

Formerfish · Post Post #248 (ISO) » Sat May 03, 2014 5:14 pm

Just ran through Kagamis iso and I'm not seeing whatever you are seeing.

Zephyrus · Post Post #249 (ISO) » Sat May 03, 2014 5:56 pm

Does anyone actually know the setup and how many roles their are? I can't seem to find it or it was provided.

Seeing as Josh B was scum, the people who didn't vote for him - Not Voting: PhDScar, Belisarius, FormerFish, Who. Thats assuming that their was no bussing involved and scum wasn't on the Josh B wagon. Thoughts?