Mini 1577: Dangan Ronpa Mafia (GAME OVER!!)


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Post Post #950 (ISO) » Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:43 am

Post by Bookitty »

No, I think that we'll be at LYLO minus Skull. zMuffin has already said that he wants to lynch you tomorrow to test your claim.

But in any case, zMuffin is refusing to give any reads today. He wants to give them tomorrow after a no-lynch. So his whole attitude is based on his survival to tomorrow.
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."
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Post Post #951 (ISO) » Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:40 am

Post by Skullduggery »

In post 912, zMuffinMan wrote:
skull wrote:You said that I saw you "do that multiple times" in Xenosaga Mafia. Do what? What are you referring to?
exactly what you said you think looks "scummy". making assumptions about the setup. i did it far more blatantly in xenosaga, too, where i outright called SSK as a mafia tracker who was being truthful about his targets pre-flip, for example, among other things
No, you're talking about run-of-the-mill setup speculation (which is not scummy) while I'm talking about having inside knowledge that a Townie shouldn't have (which is scummy). You're comparing apples to oranges here.
In post 923, zMuffinMan wrote:(also theoretically if saki survives to 3p the correct play is to lynch saki to test the vengeful claim and then have saki decide the kill)
You're suggesting that we leave the fate of the entire game in the hands of
Saki
in this scenario. That is not a good idea. That is a bad idea.
In post 929, zMuffinMan wrote:the fact that i didn't say anything about my suspicions is a pretty huge fucking clue about my intentions today
Yeah, it shows that you wanted to see how I regarded Bookitty before you contributed anything of substance. Once it became clear that I wasn't going to play ball,
then
you suggest a no-lynch. That's what I'm seeing.
In post 933, zMuffinMan wrote:here's a general thought experiment, though: what do you make of the last two night kills and why are the people who are still alive alive?
I would love to hear your own answers to these questions.
In post 936, zMuffinMan wrote:actually, now that i'm thinking about it, pim siteflaked before the FoD kill, so if you think i'm scum, presumably you think pim siteflaked, came back during the night phase to perform the kill, then went back to siteflaking, and chose FoD because... what? he thought FoD was a doc for some reason?
No, don't try to use that as a defense. I'm inclined to listen to Salamence here:
Spoiler:
In post 647, Salamence20 wrote:
Are you certain about this? Pim's profile just has a dash next to "Last visited," so I have no idea when he last checked the site. I am hesitant to clear the Pim slot over something like this. It feels like something that could very easily come back and bite us in the ass.
WE ARE NOT CLEARING ANYONE BASED ON LAST VISITED. I WON AS SCUM DOING THIS.

In post 937, zMuffinMan wrote:keeping gameplay alive to push you and killing skull is more sensible than killing gameplay in an attempt to frame you. especially since no one has actually pushed that angle
You didn't push that angle because you would have needed my support to do so. Once I made it clear early in the day that I wanted to lynch you over Boo, you dropped that potential course of action and switched to your backup plan: pushing a no-lynch because of reasons-that-totally-make-sense-but-I-can't-share-them-until-tomorrow-honest-to-goodness-trust-me-you-guys.
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Post Post #952 (ISO) » Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:18 am

Post by gameplay506 »

Don't post after you're dead.
Last edited by caledfwitch on Sun Jun 22, 2014 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #953 (ISO) » Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:24 am

Post by zMuffinMan »

saki wrote:wait then nothing really changes even if we no lynch because you'll be at lylo tomorrow minus me
maybe
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Post Post #954 (ISO) » Sun Jun 22, 2014 2:05 pm

Post by Bookitty »

From Mafia Discussion forums, bolding mine:
In post 10, zMuffinMan wrote:
burning earth wrote:Misconception 1: Always NL at 4p Lylo
I'm not particularly bothered by this - there are some merits to lynching rather than no-lynching in an even-numbered MyLo, but most of the time it's probably better to no lynch

What does bother me is that some players think immediately no lynching without discussing anything is good play.
And the only argument I've seen for this is not giving scum additional information to make a night kill (excluding games with bankable deadlines where no lynching immediately is useful). Which has always seemed asburd to me, because any half-decent scum player already knows the pros and cons of each potential kill (outside of possibly some scenarios in an open setup where a mass claim hasn't occurred).
I'm an advocate of using the time allotted to you in a MyLo situation and then deciding whether or not you want to no lynch.
It looks to me like Muffin isn't playing by his own stated theories.
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"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."
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Post Post #955 (ISO) » Sun Jun 22, 2014 2:13 pm

Post by zMuffinMan »

actually i am
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Post Post #956 (ISO) » Sun Jun 22, 2014 2:15 pm

Post by Bookitty »

Where's the discussion? You're flatly refusing to participate usefully in it. According to you, any half-decent scum player would already know the pros and cons, so why not give your reads? Why aren't you using the time allotted to you in MYLO?
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."
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Post Post #957 (ISO) » Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:17 pm

Post by zMuffinMan »

it's not about the pros and cons of each kill that i'm worried about
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Post Post #958 (ISO) » Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:23 pm

Post by Bookitty »

No? Could you please elaborate? You know, that discussion we're supposed to be having before we go right to no lynch?
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"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."
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Post Post #959 (ISO) » Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:25 pm

Post by zMuffinMan »

nope
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Post Post #960 (ISO) » Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:35 pm

Post by Bookitty »

Yeah, that's what I thought.

I have a theory that you are scum and you don't want to give any reads because they would only come back to bite you tomorrow. So opt for no-lynch and hope you can swing opinion to your side then without that pesky Skullduggery to foil your evil plan.

I do have a confession, though; I found that post in Mafia Discussion and not in The Road to Rome. Weirdly enough, I had access to it. Who knew?
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Post Post #961 (ISO) » Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:38 pm

Post by zMuffinMan »

bookitty wrote:I have a theory that you are scum and you don't want to give any reads because they would only come back to bite you tomorrow
interesting theory

does it come in good?
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Post Post #962 (ISO) » Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:43 pm

Post by Bookitty »

There is no pro-town reason to withhold reads if you are advocating a no-lynch. If you are town, you should want to get your reads out there and on record even if you are nightkilled. You even say so, in your post I quoted above. Now you're stuck with that, because you put it out there in a public forum. You don't want to live up to it, fine, but don't pretend there's some pro-town reason for your refusal to discuss.

Every one of your arguments assumes you won't be the target of the nightkill. If you are, you're basically saying, "Screw the town, I'm dead, you guys figure it out on your own!"

By contrast, every one of Saki's arguments either ends in him getting lynched and doing a vengekill or in him being the victim of the nightkill.

Who do you suppose looks more town?
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."
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Post Post #963 (ISO) » Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:51 pm

Post by zMuffinMan »

bookitty wrote:There is no pro-town reason to withhold reads if you are advocating a no-lynch
you are wrong
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Post Post #964 (ISO) » Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:52 pm

Post by Bookitty »

Wow, you convinced me.

Oh, wait, no.
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"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."
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Post Post #965 (ISO) » Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:56 pm

Post by zMuffinMan »

if you want, i will write up a large explanation for why i do not want to talk about my reads today, either tomorrow or in post-game

and if you happen to be town, you can be sure i will be pointing out exactly why you're a complete fuckwit in post-game

so be patient
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Post Post #966 (ISO) » Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:59 pm

Post by Bookitty »

Sure, that will be awesome. Maybe you could post it in Mafia Discussion as an amendment to your previous post and an explanation of why you were all wrong about that theory after all.
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"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."
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Post Post #967 (ISO) » Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:07 pm

Post by zMuffinMan »

i'm going to be perfectly blunt with you

there is no contradiction in my stance here. i know my opinons on 4p mylo because *gasp* they happen to be my opinions. shocking, right? the issue i was addressing in that post was people who believe no lynching is a good idea for the sake of no lynching and therefore shut down completely. that's clearly not what i'm doing, though. and here's the thing, since you're obviously not bright enough to pick up on it. even if i did happen to be scum here, the opinions i expressed here re: theory-related matters would be the same opinions i'd express as town, because that is how you play scum. so you saying, "lol no town motivation" just shows you are not worth listening to and should be ignored

you're too dim-witted to realise this, or you're just not thinking critically. i don't care which. honestly, though, the day someone of your calibre catches me out as scum is the day i quit playing mafia. i would be absolutely fucking disgusted with myself if i were actually scum here.
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Post Post #968 (ISO) » Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:45 pm

Post by Skullduggery »

You no-lynch in four-player MYLO if you just have absolutely no idea who the last Scum player could be and you need a night-kill to remove a potential suspect from play. If you go into four-player MYLO with one player clearly standing out as a likely suspect, then no-lynching is just a waste of time. That player is still probably going to be alive tomorrow -- either because they're Scum or because Scum is keeping them around as the mislynch -- and Scum will now control 33% of the vote instead of just 25%. This particular situation does not call for a no-lynch. It will accomplish nothing.
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Post Post #969 (ISO) » Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:14 am

Post by Bookitty »

In post 968, Skullduggery wrote:You no-lynch in four-player MYLO if you just have absolutely no idea who the last Scum player could be and you need a night-kill to remove a potential suspect from play. If you go into four-player MYLO with one player clearly standing out as a likely suspect, then no-lynching is just a waste of time. That player is still probably going to be alive tomorrow -- either because they're Scum or because Scum is keeping them around as the mislynch -- and Scum will now control 33% of the vote instead of just 25%. This particular situation does not call for a no-lynch. It will accomplish nothing.
My point with the quoted post was not to suggest that we should no-lynch. It was to highlight the contrast between what Muffin suggested as proper play in a neutral environment and what he is exhibiting here. Even if he really believed no-lynch was the right play, by his own words he should be discussing and providing information for town.

What I find really odd is his unwillingness to engage with you. He's been arguing with me for what seems an eternity. He's not arguing with you at all, though you've also said there won't be a no-lynch. He's insulted, cajoled, said trust me guys and been downright rude. He hasn't done the same to you, though, and he's barely interacted with Saki at all. I guess he can't think I'm scum, based on his arguments alone. I don't really understand the lack of focus or comment to you or Saki, though.
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"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."
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Post Post #970 (ISO) » Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:29 am

Post by zMuffinMan »

skull wrote:You no-lynch in four-player MYLO if you just have absolutely no idea who the last Scum player could be and you need a night-kill to remove a potential suspect from play.
that is only half-correct

but yes, i am fully aware that no lynching is designed to remove a potential suspect from play
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Post Post #971 (ISO) » Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:31 am

Post by zMuffinMan »

skull wrote:Scum will now control 33% of the vote instead of just 25%
this seems irrelevant

so if the only valid argument is that it's a "waste of time" when it really isn't, humour me.
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Post Post #972 (ISO) » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:15 am

Post by Bookitty »

The valid argument against no-lynch is that it removes Skull from play.

I know I'm not scum. I'm sure Skull is not scum.

The same "fifty-fifty" scenario that you keep pushing for tomorrow already exists today between you and Saki (for me, I don't know about Skull). Now, I don't KNOW that Saki is not scum, but he's not playing like scum and he's asked to be lynched to get a chance to use his awesome power. I don't see any way scum does that.

If you think Skull might be scum, make the case on him. If you think I'm the last scum, make a case on me. For Saki, the same.

I'll tell you now that I'm not voting Saki or Skull tomorrow either. So your only shot is to convince Saki to go along with you to lynch me or to convince Skull to go along with you to lynch me. You may as well start that process now, no?

There is no good reason for you to withhold your reads, by your own theory and by all common logic. But, by all means, tell me how I'm stupid town again for not going along with your mysterious plan.

You're playing like someone with no fear of the night-kill and no interest in helping town. Why would I "humour" you when I think you're scum?
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"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
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Post Post #973 (ISO) » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:36 am

Post by zMuffinMan »

if you're town, you're wrong

if you're scum, i don't give a shit what you think

you've made up your mind today and decided you want to lynch me. don't pretend anything i say is going to change it today. that is why you're an extremely awful player if you're actually town
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Post Post #974 (ISO) » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:38 am

Post by zMuffinMan »

bookitty wrote:You may as well start that process now, no?
no is correct
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