Open 560: Tit for Tat (Game Over, 4/12 alive)

[Malakittens]

Krystal Bald - I was leaning town early but some things have seemed to be buddying like here and here but we aren't ready to make an alignment call just yet.

Wake88 - At first we thought Tammy/Mala could be scum together because the argument felt manufactured. But the fact that Tammy replaced out (i.e., followed through with the threat) makes us think she just didn't want to play without SKrew and did manufacture the argument but just for different reasons than we initially thought.

Scum:
Malakittens - Her play is completely off to us. Both of us have played recent games with her, she was town in both of them. Her reaction testing of Tammy feels contrived. The fact that she has explicitly referred to herself as "town" here, here, and here is also coming off as odd/unnatural.

insanity018 - Read her ISO, this is just fluffity fluff fluff with some questions sprinkled in. Moratorium describes it as "inoffensive beige questions that will quickly be forgotten" and I think that pretty much sums it up perfectly.

To be fair the Krystal Bald read is kinda weak. You are going off "pregame" things to give them a null read, since, then they have posted things that are town. Town because while me ignoring that this is my second game with Nik that I have played with and have hydra'd with Krystal (Mantis) to a point that I believe I can point out her scum-play from her town-play. With that, I'm confident to say that Krystal is my strongest town read.

My second strongest townread happens to be the Tammy/Wake slot. Even though he's done fuckall since he replaced in to get shit going. (yes, the tammy thing is a meta thing.)

Obv, you are forgetting in the newbie queue I play absolutely different than I do outside of any game on site and within the micro. I had a decently familiarity w/ half of the players in that game also not to mention my hydra partner and I share a special bond that can not be broken. If you take all those factors into play you can see why my play between these three games are different and has nothing to do w/ any possible alignment speculation on your part.

Yet, Tammy did the same exact frisking thing through pregame and even during my 'argument' with her yet you are ignoring that.

I have to agree with the Insanity read though. I have a recent completed scum game to hers and a post by her felt reaaaaaaaaaaaally similar to some of the questions she brought up there. Although, I think I want to see more from her before I give a definitive read on her. I haven't had any completed town games with her and haven't looked to see if she has any onsite.

Also, I'm going to guess your scum reads/reads in general aren't in any type of strength, right?
(Unless your bottom is your weakest part, while your top is your strongest)

[Malakittens]

/confirm.

Hi Nikanor!

Also hey guys guess what? This slot is now confirmed town. Sleepy told me I'm not allowed to post in the game if we drew scum after I told him how much I hated scum and sucked at it. So, I'm posting ergo town. Aren't we all lucky!

Because if there's anything TSO is lacking, it's balls.

Tell me, what's the town motivation for ignoring everything and not scumhunting?

I am scumhunting and I think we've found an obvious one.

My previous other head took things too seriously. Why does that look like scum to you?

(I'm practically an innocent child right now, btw, 10 golden Tammy's beacon of town tickets to use whenever you want to anyone who can tell me why.)

[Elmo TeH AzN]

Oh look Mala made a few good posts. Ill give credit where it is due. And if your saying that Tammy slot is town because of something that was said 'pregame' as a confirm. It makes me question everything. So your telling me at that same note if I made a Hydra and used the exact same logic I would be confirmed town then?

What I can't stand is this "Pregame talk" Its pregame does it mean anything and can it be taken at face value? Personally I don't see why you would as anything can be said at that moment to sway opinions.

What really bothers me about Jules is her list. Its crap. Am I surprised I am picked as scum with them. Not at all if you ever read any of my games Im always on a scum list.

And as for the bad cases

Jules

Why wouldn't someone like Mala refer to themselves as town? This is just bad case work once again. Yes because the scum are going to come out and say

HEY IM SCUM VOTE ME OUT OF THIS GAME RIGHT NOW BECAUSE IM DOING A TERRIBLE JOB!!!

I think not.

So my question to you Jules is why not vote Insanity then? Wouldn't you think a pressure vote would be better then placing what you could look at as an easy vote?

Side note: Hyrda's make me laugh.

And Jules Ill do your hard work for you since you can't seem to get it done.

VOTE: insanity

[Julatorium]

To be fair the Krystal Bald read is kinda weak. You are going off "pregame" things to give them a null read, since, then they have posted things that are town. Town because while me ignoring that this is my second game with Nik that I have played with and have hydra'd with Krystal (Mantis) to a point that I believe I can point out her scum-play from her town-play. With that, I'm confident to say that Krystal is my strongest town read.

You are hard-buddying Krystal Bald on a null read? really? And stuff that happened pregame is relevant since we all had our roles in pregame.

Obv, you are forgetting in the newbie queue I play absolutely different than I do outside of any game on site and within the micro. I had a decently familiarity w/ half of the players in that game also not to mention my hydra partner and I share a special bond that can not be broken. If you take all those factors into play you can see why my play between these three games are different and has nothing to do w/ any possible alignment speculation on your part.

What does any of that have to do with your play this game? You have made a point over and over to say explicitly you are town. It comes off as forced and unnatural.

Yet, Tammy did the same exact frisking thing through pregame and even during my 'argument' with her yet you are ignoring that.

The difference is 1) Tammy didn't "reaction test" you and 2) I didn't really care for that either at the time thus why we said one or both of you were scum. The fact that she followed through and quit the game makes me think she just didn't want to play the game without SKrew.

Also, I'm going to guess your scum reads/reads in general aren't in any type of strength, right?

They are only in order as far as what column they are in.

What I can't stand is this "Pregame talk" Its pregame does it mean anything and can it be taken at face value? Personally I don't see why you would as anything can be said at that moment to sway opinions.

We had our roles pregame. Everything from the moment we could post is relevant.

What really bothers me about Jules is her list. Its crap. Am I surprised I am picked as scum with them. Not at all if you ever read any of my games Im always on a scum list.

There you go again applying a label ("crap") to our post without any commentary to back it up other than you are in the scum column. The problem with you is you appear to have "little dog syndrome". You are TRYING to sound aggressive and come off like you are on the attack but it's missing the mark because you don't have the reasoning to back it up. Compare that to T S O's aggression which comes off as genuine.

And as for the bad cases Jules Why wouldn't someone like Mala refer to themselves as town? This is just bad case work once again. Yes because the scum are going to come out and say HEY IM SCUM VOTE ME OUT OF THIS GAME RIGHT NOW BECAUSE IM DOING A TERRIBLE JOB!!! I think not.

We didn't notice any unnatural proclamations of town in our previous games with her. Townie is townie by actions, not by self-proclamation.

So my question to you Jules is why not vote Insanity then? Wouldn't you think a pressure vote would be better then placing what you could look at as an easy vote?

Wait, I thought our list was "crap", why are you now saying that information is good? Is it maybe because now two people have mentioned/shown interest in insanity? Which is it Elmo? Are our cases good or bad?

[T S O]

Wake/Justin/Riddle/N_M is my townbloc.

[T S O]

Julatorium's readlist is quite accurate, actually. Either he's bussing, I'm giving bad townreads, or he's not scum.

[T S O]

hgh and xfda are lurking like fuck and need prods up their holes.

Scumbloc is Mala, Krystal. Very slight town lean on Elmo. I need to look at Infinity, as well as the lurkers.

[T S O]

I cannot find anything indicative of town whatsoever in any of their ISO's.

[T S O]

So, 5 people I'm reading as scum?

great

[T S O]

I ...could see Krystal being Town.

[T S O]

At a stretch. Mantis is either a good scum player or town. I don't really think Nikanor's screaming scum either.

I'm not clearing them, before you ask.

[T S O]

We can guarantee at least one lurker is scum.

[T S O]

It's like Mala is just forcing her play and I don't like it.

[Elmo TeH AzN]

So your telling me that I could have said in my first post WOO I'm town and it would have been relevant pregame. Obviously not therefore I say Pregame means absolutely shit. It shows nothing aside you getting your panties in a wad and then saying sorry later. Or did I obviously misread that somewhere along the lines? And beside that why is it relevant? Please enlighten me. Because I see nothing relevant before the first "Official post" Where you can do what you want and vote then.

First and foremost what information have I said was good? Congrats you posted a list and made some waves in this game among all the fluff posting you did. Lets face the facts when you post a list people talk. That's what happens Its not hard. And your cases are still complete shit. Lets put it that way. And Jesus its not hard to look at someones ISO and realize there was nothing there. Moreso what you did was prove Insanity is lurking and boom! Hell I figured I could do something you seem to be unable to do. Not fluff post the shit out of this game and what have you. Sitting here with your vote where it is isn't doing much just proving nothing more useful then not voting.

Oh look someone can read into a Meta. WIth unnatural proclamations. Why not do a meta search on everyone else in this game then? But obviously her self proclamations had something to do with it I'm also assuming or am I just a crazy person.

What's there to back up with your case? You posted a list. It doesn't make you look any more town to me and all it does it get people to talk about reads and look who shows up. Half the town that actually is here doesn't help when you have lurker city up in here.

If you want town credit for the list. Look elsewhere you're not getting it here. And what would being aggressive be moving my vote to you to prove your point? All that would show is something later down the line for people to do a VCA if anything to see if there was a pattern.

[Elmo TeH AzN]

It's like Mala is just forcing her play and I don't like it.

So what's your read on her then?

Oh and the
TL;DR on my last post: Jules is scum grasping for towncred with the list

[Malakittens]

Wake/Justin/Riddle/N_M is my townbloc.

Deff can see Wake. Riddle is maybe, but prpbable.
I don't get N_M, explain por favor? Mucho gracias.

Julatorium's readlist is quite accurate, actually. Either he's bussing, I'm giving bad townreads, or he's not scum.

Nope, only thing accurate in the scum reads is maybe Insanity. Elmo don't have a deff read, but right now in the null area. Your KB scum read is wrong, your read on me is wrong. I think it's possible both Justin and likely N_M townread is wrong.

hgh and xfda are lurking like fuck and need prods up their holes.

Scumbloc is Mala, Krystal. Very slight town lean on Elmo. I need to look at Infinity, as well as the lurkers.

Confirmed not scum with Insanity~

On a serious note. Your scumbloc is wrong, wrong, wrong~

I cannot find anything indicative of town whatsoever in any of their ISO's.

Look harder.

I ...could see Krystal being Town.

At a stretch. Mantis is either a good scum player or town. I don't really think Nikanor's screaming scum either.

I'm not clearing them, before you ask.

Mantis has a pretty damn transparent scum game to her town game. She's screaming bloody town as of right now.

It's like Mala is just forcing her play and I don't like it.

... Or I'm just trying to hunt.

[Julatorium]

So your telling me that I could have said in my first post WOO I'm town and it would have been relevant pregame. Obviously not therefore I say Pregame means absolutely shit. It shows nothing aside you getting your panties in a wad and then saying sorry later. Or did I obviously misread that somewhere along the lines? And beside that why is it relevant? Please enlighten me. Because I see nothing relevant before the first "Official post" Where you can do what you want and vote then.

First and foremost what information have I said was good? Congrats you posted a list and made some waves in this game among all the fluff posting you did. Lets face the facts when you post a list people talk. That's what happens Its not hard. And your cases are still complete shit. Lets put it that way. And Jesus its not hard to look at someones ISO and realize there was nothing there. Moreso what you did was prove Insanity is lurking and boom! Hell I figured I could do something you seem to be unable to do. Not fluff post the shit out of this game and what have you. Sitting here with your vote where it is isn't doing much just proving nothing more useful then not voting.

Oh look someone can read into a Meta. WIth unnatural proclamations. Why not do a meta search on everyone else in this game then? But obviously her self proclamations had something to do with it I'm also assuming or am I just a crazy person.

What's there to back up with your case? You posted a list. It doesn't make you look any more town to me and all it does it get people to talk about reads and look who shows up. Half the town that actually is here doesn't help when you have lurker city up in here.

If you want town credit for the list. Look elsewhere you're not getting it here. And what would being aggressive be moving my vote to you to prove your point? All that would show is something later down the line for people to do a VCA if anything to see if there was a pattern.

Last we checked, conversation in a game is a good thing. Again, all this says is "your cases are shit" (which cases?) "you looked at someone's iso, anyone can do that", and "you didn't vote insanity". I see nothing in these bit of words you threw together that says "Julatorium is scum because....". You ask what I have to back up my case...I have posts! Lots of posts I reference. See if you click those words that are underlined, they go to other posts and those posts are the ones that are my evidence of my cases.

And what would being aggressive be moving my vote to you to prove your point? All that would show is something later down the line for people to do a VCA if anything to see if there was a pattern.

That quote deserves its on block. See, you didn't vote us, in fact you unvoted us. Why, if we are such crappity crap scummy scum scums did you unvote us? You're a funny little monster Elmo.

TL;DR on my last post: Jules is scum grasping for towncred with the list

Well meta me (Juls) then cause I post a town/null/scum list in just about every single game I play in. Scum, Town, whatever. Come up with new ways to say crap though next time you post...k?

[Julatorium]

That quote deserves its on block

own*

[Riddleton]

One thing I would like to address is it doesn't matter what my opinion is regarding this site's meta. Everyone has a different strategy and it shouldn't thus be forced upon someone to think the same way. I'm sorry, but I don't really care what you think. I like to think the way I have played on other sites has been successful thus far. I don't want to change the way I play just because some people disagree. As stated, everyone's different.

---

Here's my opinions as to the alignment of everyone thus far:-

Mafia

Krysten Bald

: Scum. Made a few odd posts here and there. He was trying to claim TSO was mafia based on his pre-game with somewhat flaws logic. And then dodged my question regarding his theory.

Mala

: Likely Scum. Her play is unnatural. I don't like how she's claiming to be town. I also don't like how she's voted someone who's barely posted.

Town

HGH

: Town. The list was stupid, but it doesn't really matter. He had reasons on another post though they were not really tells in any way.

TSO

: Town. I stated why I think you are town earlier. You wouldn't do what you did pre-game if you were mafia as that would make you look suspicious.

Justin Playfair

: Likely Town. Post #203 is justified and town-motivated.

Julatorium

: Likely town. I don't agree with you forcing what appears to be the norm, but nontheless you are trying to be an asset to this game.

Not_Mafia

: Probably Town. See Juls' explanation on him because I pretty much agree in line with what they said.

Wake88

: Probably Town.

Undecided

xfdagentx42

: Lurking doesn't do any good.

Elmo

: I would like to see examples as to how you claim Julatorium is "a hydra which has no idea what is going on".

Insanity

: Haven't seen too much from her to make a judgement. I'm undecided as there are arguments that she could be in either alignment.

[Malakittens]

Déjà vu ~

[Malakittens]

Also if you think someone is scum please vote. Don't pussyfoot around it.

[Riddleton]

I already made my vote.

@Mala: I would like you to explain your vote against xfdag. It seems like a vote with little-to-no basis. I don't believe there is any major logic behind it.

[Malakittens]

I already made my vote.

@Mala: I would like you to explain your vote against xfdag. It seems like a vote with little-to-no basis. I don't believe there is any major logic behind it.

Right now it's more of a pressure, but now that you asked it kinda ruins it.

[Wake1]

We can guarantee at least one lurker is scum.

Not sure I buy this. Lurking's an act of intentionally not posting. Link Some people are just busy, or can't keep up with the river of posts.

As for Riddleton, his 95 piques my curiosity. He states Not_Mafia's behavior is Scummy, because he doesn't like his "So how do you plan on moving the game forward." Riddleton then responds by saying it looked to him like a prod to try and get more information from him. Forgive me, but that doesn't seem Scummy in itself, because Townies do in general try to get information from other players.

Riddleton

Dislikes random voting.
Doesn't appear to like being prodded for information.

Since I'm curious, VOTE: Riddleton.

(invalid vote format found)

[Riddleton]

Doesn't appear to like being prodded for information.

I think you misread my post there; it's not that I don't like being prodded for info, it's that I thought N_M's prodding was wagon-like. I was wrong there as I clarified in a later post on a different page. You are correct in that I don't like Random Voting, though.