Ikaruga Mafia (Game Over!)

[TiphaineDeath]

Wait, waitwaitwaitwait, hold everything.

Everyone look at post 3118 right now and tell me if you see what I just did.

[TiphaineDeath]

Ah fuck, nope as usual TD thinking he spotted a scumtell is a misread, go about your business people Q_Q.

[Thor665]

Thor, you look like the SK because you've been going with the flow and no so much arguing multiple wagons all game as being happy to be on multiple wagons. The only strike against you I can see other than that is that you are alive. Honestly the only reason I'm not voting you right now is because I'm pretty sure I know who the SK is, I'm just not going to get a lynch on them today so it's not worth outing just yet.

[TiphaineDeath]

I am unimpressed by your eyebrows sir.

[Thor665]

I'm unimpressed by your case wherein you're basically noting that I haven't hard focused (neither have many) and the old, 'Thor is alive' saw, which you should be well experienced enough to know is bunk.

[TiphaineDeath]

I'm not voting you, I don't think you're scum, I don't even think you're the SK, chillax mr. smurf.

[Jordan_Downey]

First, no one is treating you like a scumbuddy and you are treating no one like a scumbuddy. This whole "Thor is scum for being alive" thing is so stupid, especially with this being functionally multiball now, that I can't see a universe where one of the people pushing that angle isn't scum. Thus Thor is not faction scum. The Thor attitude of push everyone who is suspicious and the SK attitude of push everyone that I can without looking scummy are close enough that I'm not sure there's a difference, so I can't use that to prove or disprove my theory.

I just have to call out this part of the theory though. All of the points are bad, but this one is nonsensical.

He has made a town case on me.
He is using it to argue that I am SK.

I made a case for why your behavior is not group scum, yes. I do not believe you to be group scum. I do believe you to be solo scum. Those are not mutually exclusive.

@Jordan - your case is laughably bad. Why are you sheeping your SK read?

I think you're solo scum I shouldn't be voting the same person as you? How does that make any sense? I'm voting Jon because I think he's scum, not because you are voting him. I genuinely believe that you are voting him because you think he's scum as well. Of the two of you, you are the one I am more likely to be wrong about, and he has the larger wagon.

@ Jordan When I flip Town, are you still going to go after Tipthaine? What beside his supposed connection do you think makes Tipthaine scummy? I'm not seeing it. Could you flesh out your theory some more, I'm not convinced it's a Town push. As far as the "This whole "Thor is scum for being alive" thing is so stupid", and "that I can't see a universe where one of the people pushing that angle isn't scum.", prepare to eat your words.

If you flip town, I will reread to figure out where I developed my reads wrong. When you flip scum I will reread to try to find scumbuddies.

[RachMarie]

BTW if you want to know why early on I was scum reading Pere, it was the way he was posting and the attitude he had felt very much like games he was scum in. Later his posting style did improve and appeared more like the towny Pere. So I felt like I could put him in the town pile .

What's your read on Peregrine? He was your biggest scum read for the longest time. In the one post that you described your scum read, you really didn't say anything. You just alluded to some previous game, and a feeling. What exactly changed your mind on him?

I backed off a bit because I realized I was doing confirmation bias. He was scum in the following game which just ended:


http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=49438

[RachMarie]

By re-examining the ISO here, I realized I was letting the fact I knew he was scum in the other game influence reading in this one.

Sorry about that Pere

[Dry-fit]

@ Dry Fit Since Jordan's logic is "somewhat plausible", you give the impression you don't agree with all of it. My first question to you is, what's your read on Tipthaine? What are you going to do after you've been proven wrong? What's this push on Eddie you've put in the middle of your case on me, have to do with me?

Tiphaine has read town for me for pretty much the whole game. However with recent evensts I need to reconsider my scumreads. Saki and Rach look town all of a sudden and mala flipped town. I'm starting to feel Perpetual Nonsense may be town as well. So by process of eliminationish reasoning I need to consider that people I haven't been focusing on or previously townread may be scum.

If you flip town I'll have to reevaluate things as I've had to this entire game.

The Eddie thing didn't have anything to do with you. It was just part of my general reaction to Jordan's theory. I notice Jordan hasn't answered my questions about Eddie.

[Perpetual Nonsense]

Hello.

[Thor665]

I'm not voting you, I don't think you're scum, I don't even think you're the SK, chillax mr. smurf.

You said the only reason you weren't voting me was because you thought you knew the actual SK - now you're saying you don't think I am scum of any stripe. Clarify?

[Jordan_Downey]

@ Dryfit- I'm sorry, you asked me questions about Eddie? I assume this is the "Who has he been pushing today?" bit to which the answer is he hasn't done anything today. The reason Jon and TD aren't his scumbuddies is entirely on their end of the interactions.

Jon's scumminess is fairly apparent to me, but as a case for the nonbelievers, here goes:

Spoiler: Jon's Scum!

Scum
RachMarie
The Necromancers
Eddie Fenix

The Necromancers have pulled out of the game, and I don't know for sure what that's about. But I get this niggling they might be Town. Malakittens flipped Town, they were right on ZZZX, and a few other things make me think I've been wrong on them. I hope I'm wrong on them. Their interaction with Titus makes me want to lean Town on them.

I really get the feeling EddieFenix is Town. His interactions with Thor, as well as with Titus and a few others make me believe I'm right.

@ Rach I'll get around to reading your GTKAS, and I really, really do empathize. Though I don't have diabetes, I do deal with ongoing health issues that are unpleasant, and time consuming. Growing old, sometimes, sucks. I'll give your slot another look over, and I'll try to be open to being wrong.

I haven't read the thread through since back when Thor and I were the only ones voting ZZZX. I don't even know what happened to turn the Day back around to him. So, I'd best shut up and go read the end of Yesterday. Who knows, there may be things in that, that will make parts of this post obsolete.

TD brought this up and allowed it to be dismissed way too easily, which is the main reason I think he's Jon's scumbuddy. I could see maybe changing one of your reads over the course of a post, but these are the three people he names as scumreads and it doesn't sound like he's scumreading any of them. This kind of inconsistency does not come from someone who is actually trying to develop reads. This comes from someone who is trying to look like they're contributing, and pulling reads out of thin air to justify things. Who doesn't care about the veracity of their reads? That's right: Scum.

My utility ended long ago, so I'm disposable now. What's your reason for the vote?

This post is terrible. Just incredibly awful. There is no reason ever to post something like this as town. As scum, though, it's making himself a smaller target to any sk or vig shots. If he doesn't have utility, then they're not going to prioritize him as the kill. This just screams survivalism.

I've recently gotten home after a nice camping and fishing trip. I want to check on something, and I'll be back around.

I think it's about time to have Saki's flip. No sensible Town would want this big of an enigma at the end of the game. But the bad thing is, he's still a 50-50 flip. With no association tells, really.

Ok, I didn't really notice that. Does this mean you're seeing Saki as Town? Someone to keep around?

These two together are worth noting as Jon trying to push for a Saki lynch then abandoning the push immediately after any resistance whatsoever is shown. He's not pushing someone he thinks is scum, he's pushing someone he thinks will get lynched, then backing off when he sees evidence he was wrong. What is his opinion on Saki since then? Oh yeah, that's right:

wait are you suggesting that both Doublade and I are bussing Saki, Jon?

The game I played with Saki, he was Town, and acted like this all the way through. I haven't read any of his recent games. It's a possibility you're bussing him, or he's just Town

There's too many slots to go all out meta for this game. I know your meta, and yours seems off. It could be Meat World issues I'm seeing, but even then, why say you're more suspicious of Thor, but stop shy of calling him a scum read? It's the little things like that that keep me scum reading you. I realize that's the pot calling the kettle black, but it's the way I stand right now. If it makes you feel better, my scum read on you is wavering.

If you or Thor ever flip, I'd almost guarantee the other one will be a different alignment.

I

want

to go through and see who's scum read who, and check it against the voting record. Also I'd like to see who's Town reading who, and check out each scum case presented. I just need the time. Summer is the worst time to play Mafia for me. I just don't have the time like I do in the other seasons.

The hypocrisy is strong with this one. "I have town meta on Saki, but you might be bussing him." "I think you are playing dissimilarly to your town meta, but that might be RL." "I dislike your lack of conviction on your Thor read, but I'm beginning to waffle on my read on you." Combining that with his complaints about RL taking too much of his time, and everything about this post screams scum to me. All of his complaints about others are equally applicable to himself here. The Thor and Rach false dichotomy also makes sure he has somewhere safe to hide tomorrow should he get his mislynch.

I've started a post, then deleted it, rinse and repeated several times today. I haven't been at such a loss in a long time, if ever. I'm also going to be extremely busy until late tonight, so I need to post

something

right now.

Titus tried to make a connection to me earlier when she tried to make it appear she was coaching me.

She also bussed her partner Doublade.

Scum could be setting up Thor for a mislynch, but if so, they're being extremely cautious with it.

Saki has a bigger chance of being Town, not by anything they've done, but by Doublade pushing for their lynch.

I don't remember how Titus saw them, but I'll check later.

Those I have no intention of voting Today, Tipthaine, Peregrine, and SKOT. Probably not Jordan Downey either.

I'm glad The Necromancers are back, and I'd like to hear from them, even if it's only to call me scum.

Eddie, Dry Fit, and Xayzeck are all null to me. This is also the priority of the order I'd feel about voting for them.

I think Rach is scum, back pedaling.

Perpetual Nonsense fits somewhere, but ATM I'm not sure where.

This is the best I can do now, at least it gives some clue of where I stand.

As for a scum read on me, The Necromancers made an encyclopedia, Titus connected herself to me, and Thor has said my not noticing Doublade was wanting Saki lynched was scummy. Also I was on ZZZX's wagon, and firmly on it. Is there anything else (from anybody) that they think makes me scum? I'd be open to discussing it.

Here he is touting Saki town based on Doublade pushing him. Further, he acknowledges Titus bussing Doublade in one line, then says Saki is town because Doublade was pushing him two lines later, without any further analysis. Frankly, the inconsistency there gets to me. It reads like he's crafting reasons for reads and not looking for reads based on reasons.

The rest of the post is no better. This appears to be Jon making a scumcase for himself. I'm really not sure why anyone would ever do this, but all of the points he brings up are scummy things he does, and it adds up to a compelling picture.

I'm not going to bother prettying this up tonight, but if anyone has questions, feel free to voice them. We will get back to you when we feel like it.

[PeregrineV]

Here he is touting Saki town based on Doublade pushing him. Further, he acknowledges Titus bussing Doublade in one line, then says Saki is town because Doublade was pushing him two lines later, without any further analysis. Frankly, the inconsistency there gets to me. It reads like he's crafting reasons for reads and not looking for reads based on reasons.

Makes sense to me. Saki is town because scum-Duo pushed for their lynch. Not really inconsistent. Better question is did he follow up on the Titus/Ski stuff he said he would. And did scum-Duo push for Saki lynch, and if so, how hard.

[TiphaineDeath]

Thor, I haven't thought you're scum this game at all, you were displaying sk-ish tendencies that along with your level of play and current game state made me suspect you a bit, however nothing you've done remotely pings as scum to me, and since I think I have a bead on the actual SK voting you as SK would be silly.

Make sense?

[jon_h61]

Here are some of Doubleade's posts about Jordan

he's both in my "i don't care" pile and my "i kind of hate mastin's 'case' against you" pile. i want to say i'd be ok with the lynch but i want the xayzeck lynch and dry fit lynch so much more for me to be willing to compromise on that -or- aegor

don't drag me into this shit i distinctly remember saying i had bad feelings about and didn't like the jordan lynch because of how it started in the first place

lol jordan is town

jordan is town. aegor is town. please lynch xayzeck we were so close to it

more importantly as scum jordan is apparently much more into the game and less detached. they're making much longer and more involved posts there; it makes sense with heads being the kinds of players who prefer scum to town. jordan is active now, but it feels like they've stopped caring as much about this game.

jordan is town but it's going to end up being an "wow lots of people like this wagon time to sheep it" lynch.

jordan is town, but he was forced to out himself in order to derail the wagon on him

because jordan totally didn't already claim with a "lock" keyword earlier right

Let's look at what Doublade said about Saki.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: saki

quack

Sorry! I'll try to make occasional short posts (pretty much same as always) and not dumb silly dodges like Saki.

hihi

SAKI I SWEAR TO GOD

[caled]

UNVOTE: VOTE: saki yeah, titus is town.

To add insult to injury, a totally viable and justifiable Saki wagon didn't even get more than 5 votes, while ZZZX is probably going to be lynched today. ZZZX has actually done things and played his usual town meta, while Saki is... well, you know. I don't even know or care anymore if he's town or scum, but why is the ZZZX wagon so much better than his? Because Saki has an earlier join date or something?

Doublade never pushes Saki (really) until the end of Yesterday. They called Jordan Town long and loud though.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Jordan Downey

[Thor665]

Thor, I haven't thought you're scum this game at all, you were displaying sk-ish tendencies that along with your level of play and current game state made me suspect you a bit, however nothing you've done remotely pings as scum to me, and since I think I have a bead on the actual SK voting you as SK would be silly.

Make sense?

Not when paired with the 'only reason I'm not voting you' comment.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

hmm... has jordan followed through with anything from their "grand plan"?
I don't think so
I could be persuaded to go that direction I believe.

[TiphaineDeath]

..... If I did not have a better SK suspect, I would think you were SK, and thus voting you, not sure how much more clear I can be.

[Thor665]

So you do scumread me then, because I'm an SK suspect except that there is a better SK suspect.

[Saki]

But your utter uselessness makes for an easy case on you. Want to help sort that out? Or replace out so we can have someone who'll play the game in your slot?

Never.

I posted links to town Saki games, Thor. His play here is clearly active lurking and not at all helping town, whilst in those games I linked, and the one that Titus linked, show a very different Saki the TOWN Saki. Where he actually tries to figure out who the scum are.

The game I played with Saki, he was Town, and acted like this all the way through. I haven't read any of his recent games. It's a possibility you're bussing him, or he's just Town

@Saki - want to address that?

My erratic playstyle is my pride. I quite value being random and hence unable to have meta used against.

Hey Saki, who do YOU personally think is scum?

RachMarie. Dry-Fit.
In light of a recent game, (I believe) anyone who scumreads me with only meta to justify the read is scum.

Wait, waitwaitwaitwait, hold everything.

Everyone look at post 3118 right now and tell me if you see what I just did.

Bringing something like that up repeatedly is a good way to end up with a rope around your neck.

*cough* your scumread on me *cough*

Since Rach keeps going on about suspecting Thor for being alive it makes me think she is likely town.

Doesn't mean she's town. Really.

I think she keeps talking about it because it's a genuine feeling she has.

In spite of counter-evidence and discouragement? I'm just an easy place to park a vote on.

[Saki]

VOTE: RachMarie

[Thor665]

My erratic playstyle is my pride. I quite value being random and hence unable to have meta used against.

Brilliant work - you have developed a playstyle that prevents people from town reading you, and also disinclines scum from ever killing you because you're functionally useless. I see your playstyle being immensely helpful to you when scum, and of no help whatsoever when you're town. Great work, why can't more people play like that? It's a shame, really, these goofy players and their idea of 'helping town', nothing much to take pride of there, really.

[TiphaineDeath]

No, you are being intentionally obtuse, Scum and SK play very differently being very different roles and thus you look at different thing when attempting to find them.

[Jordan_Downey]

hmm... has jordan followed through with anything from their "grand plan"?
I don't think so
I could be persuaded to go that direction I believe.

Frankly I've done nothing recently. I was in the process of disappearing entirely, and now I'm getting ready for a major rescheduling at work. I plan on compiling the claims when I get the chance, but we've missed enough of them that I'm not sure the plan is still viable. It's definitely not useable without more information, and I don't think we're at massclaim stage yet considering no flipped investigatives or protectives. Probably tomorrow. With that said, anyone who wants to compile the list of polarity change claims would be my bestest friend ever.

..... If I did not have a better SK suspect, I would think you were SK, and thus voting you, not sure how much more clear I can be.

Who is this mysterious SK suspect? I don't see any reason not to at least name your suspicions.

Here are some of Doubleade's posts about Jordan

he's both in my "i don't care" pile and my "i kind of hate mastin's 'case' against you" pile. i want to say i'd be ok with the lynch but i want the xayzeck lynch and dry fit lynch so much more for me to be willing to compromise on that -or- aegor

don't drag me into this shit i distinctly remember saying i had bad feelings about and didn't like the jordan lynch because of how it started in the first place

lol jordan is town

jordan is town. aegor is town. please lynch xayzeck we were so close to it

more importantly as scum jordan is apparently much more into the game and less detached. they're making much longer and more involved posts there; it makes sense with heads being the kinds of players who prefer scum to town. jordan is active now, but it feels like they've stopped caring as much about this game.

jordan is town but it's going to end up being an "wow lots of people like this wagon time to sheep it" lynch.

jordan is town, but he was forced to out himself in order to derail the wagon on him

because jordan totally didn't already claim with a "lock" keyword earlier right

Let's look at what Doublade said about Saki.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: saki

quack

Sorry! I'll try to make occasional short posts (pretty much same as always) and not dumb silly dodges like Saki.

hihi

SAKI I SWEAR TO GOD

[caled]

UNVOTE: VOTE: saki yeah, titus is town.

To add insult to injury, a totally viable and justifiable Saki wagon didn't even get more than 5 votes, while ZZZX is probably going to be lynched today. ZZZX has actually done things and played his usual town meta, while Saki is... well, you know. I don't even know or care anymore if he's town or scum, but why is the ZZZX wagon so much better than his? Because Saki has an earlier join date or something?

Doublade never pushes Saki (really) until the end of Yesterday. They called Jordan Town long and loud though.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Jordan Downey

Any analysis you'd like to give with that information? You can try to make your OMGUS less obvious if you want, but your timing here could not be any more opportunistic.

PEdit: Shhh. Thor, Saki's pretending to be a real boy. Posting is marginally better than no-posting.