Mini 1626: Duck Tales Mafia (Game Over)
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- EXAKT Science
- EXAKT Science
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EXAKT Science
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- Not_Mafia
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Not_Mafia
- Smash Hit
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You unvoted
Also, what is Not_Mafia doing? This is some of the worst play I’ve ever seen.
I will SEARCH for games with you and N_M to help you policy him.
I can't remember the last N_M post that wasn't bland, unimaginative and lame. Some shitposters are at least somewhat funny. You are the epitomy of the type of poster that nobody would miss if you were to suddenly disappear. You never add anything of value.
- Bulbazak
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↑ EXAKT Science wrote:↑ Bulbazak wrote:
Domo is scum for the timing of his pushes and how they always align with me being under heavy suspicion. His reasoning is also nonsensical and just looks like a quick justification for why he's pushing and to show that his reasoning is different from everyone else's. The next scummy person on the wagon is Double, due to their hiding behind TW. After I flip town they can then claim no responsibility, because they were only following up on TW's reads and non-existent guilty.
so your scum reads are the people who are pushing you? why would both of the scum be on you this early in the day?
You asked me who the possible scum on my wagon were. I told you. Domo is a strong townread. Double I just didn't like his push and found it opportunistic and convenient. Normally I'd think there was probably scum off my wagon, but given that there's essentially blood in the water when it comes to me, they might both be on there assuming that such a lynch wouldn't come back to bite them. Essentially, you need to see who is hiding behind dead townies.
↑ EXAKT Science wrote:
I thought I read where it took 4 to lynch. But you're right, given 9 players, it would be 5.
This doesn't make any sense.
both of these points read as attempts to generate fake content that still seems like contribution to the game. one of them might well be an honest mistake, but the second is less forgivable. why doesn't it make sense? why are we even bothering to speculate on whether or not TW was concerned with a site ban? does it advance scumhunting? absolutely not!
On the first point, I really did get confused, and that's not something I'd try to fake as scum. There are too many people who would catch crap like that. On the second, the suggestion that TW would think outing an investigation result would get him site banned is absurd, and the only reason Domo would suggest such a thing is so that he could push the "TW got a guilty on Bulba" angle if he so chose. I'm showing that the reasoning is off, which is consistent with all of Domo's pushes.
↑ EXAKT Science wrote:
↑ EXAKT Science wrote:Hey anybody want to switch to KCC? Her recent posts are giving me ~vibes~, and I'm getting a serious scum read from her right now.
Kitty's town.
yeah? why? calling people town like this is dangerous, and arguably even scummy! I'm not willing to accept that Kitty is town just on your word.
Well, there's the typical reasons of she's actually scumhunting and trying to figure the game out (well, except when it comes to me. That actually bothers me a bit.). However, there are other reasons that I just can't get into. You'll have to trust me on this one. We are never lynching Kitty.
I've already explained why this meta case is bad, and I even offered for you to use the games in my wiki to double check your theory. You have refused to do so, which means that you were never interested in doing so in the first place.
You mean your attack wasn't serious? But if that was the case, then why are you using it as one of your points above?
Quick hammers are bad, and I'll lynch them all day, every day.
What fake crumb? You have refused to say what I supposedly crumbed. Just because you say something repeatedly doesn't make it true.
My response to you was null. And why was I supposed to think you were rolefishing when there was no crumb and no reason to even think you were rolefishing? This line of reasoning makes no sense.
Um...what? Let's say, for argument's sake, that I were to flip scum. How would swinging for you be safe if it's so "obvious" that you're not scum with Pine, especially if I were to flip? There's no way you come up with this as town. This feels like you just made up a new point, because you didn't want to be accused of not adding anything new.
↑ DOMO wrote:
Ok that pretty much sums up why I think bulba is scum. However, I was very wrong yesterday about wreck, and I've put less effort into figuring bulba out. That said, bulba is clearly our best lynch today. mastin demanded my vote today (and tomorrow for that matter) and I owe her at least bulba before stopping to reassess.
He says that he is not trying to figure me out, but that he wants to lynch me anyway, probably because the majority wants to. He then hides behind Mastin.
↑ Paschendale wrote:↑ Bulbazak wrote:Domo is scum for the timing of his pushes and how they always align with me being under heavy suspicion. His reasoning is also nonsensical and just looks like a quick justification for why he's pushing and to show that his reasoning is different from everyone else's. The next scummy person on the wagon is Double, due to their hiding behind TW. After I flip town they can then claim no responsibility, because they were only following up on TW's reads and non-existent guilty.
Domo has been making well founded arguments the whole game. You haven't been. You've been mostly flying under the radar and now you come out swinging because there's a popular move against you? No way Domo is scum unless this is some kind of mutual bus.
What are you smoking?! Domo has not been making well founded arguments at all! I just got done showing everything wrong with his arguments! I have shown that his pushes on me only come when I'm under intense pressure. I've shown that his stance is opportunistic and that he's hiding behind the reads of dead town. And how have I been flying under the radar? I have been heavily scrutinized since day freaking 1! I've been extremely vocal about my reads. Sure, I was not moving my vote from TW d2, but that was because I was determined to lynch him for that quick hammer. I absolutely hate this post. There's no way town Pasch even thinks this, because I know you're much better than this. The only reason you'd say this would be to buddy Domo.
Come to think of it, I didn't like you saying that Mastin was scumread the entire game, as he was pretty obvious town d2, as I pointed out.
↑ EXAKT Science wrote:
Otherwise, some of these points are good. I didn't like the fake crumb bit either. But being mad at a hammer without a claim seems pretty normal to me. A lot of people, usually town, get pissed off at that. And it seems odd that most of the rest of this case is based on his reaction to you specifically. I don't see why talking to you as if you're town while criticizing you makes a difference (some people just talk as if everyone is town), or why accusing you is scummy. I think you're town, but it has nothing to do with Pine. I think a much better reason to suspect Bulba is the way he pretty much coasted through day 2. You want active lurking, there's some active lurking. Bulba didn't stick his neck out on anything throughout the day and cast pretty safe votes.
↑ KittyCupCake wrote:
By default, people have about a 25% chance of being scum. Today, we're at 22%. 50-50 isnota null read. On the contrary, 50-50 is the ideal baseline for a lynch. If a town can manage to do 50-50 lynches every day, they win.
If you flip a coin 100 times, the odds of a single flip being heads or tails doesn't change. Now you can do certain things to the coin to effect the odds, but saying that it being flipped a certain number of times changes the odds is ridiculous. Same here. You say the odds of me flipping scum is 50/50. That means I'm at the same state as I was at the beginning of the game, with my individual odds being 50/50. Depending on the information you have, the odds change, but you saying that I have a 50/50 chance to flip scum means that to you those odds haven't changed, ergo, I'm a null read. So again, why are you trying to lynch a null read instead of one you think is scum? And I don't accept the reasoning that the game has gone on too long. That is crap reasoning.
↑ KittyCupCake wrote:
-Do you see the common theme there? -All day, TW was saying, "Bulba is scum, who is his scum buddy?"
Is it definitely a result? -No, clearly. And if that's the only reason someone has for voting Bulba, that's a terrible reason. But there's nothing in TW's posts that rules it out (although, the fact that he didn't just come out with it with only 1-shot makes it less likely), and several things that do hint in that direction. Anyway, together with all the reasons Bulba was a good lynch Yesterday, he is just a slightly better lynch Today.
If TW had a guilty on me, he would have stayed on me until the end of time. When you are an investigative with a guilty, you don't move off your guilty.
@NM: So you just showed Pine WKing me, which suggests that I'm town. I don't get your vote at all.
I'm Duckworth, VT.
Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.
- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street MafiaV/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!
Your whole post is just you pretending to be dumb, but this quote here really sums it up the most.
You were pretending to crumb a mastin clear so you could later claim cop. And if you don't claim anything then it's just an innocent comment saying you think mastin is town.
The rest I can't be bothered to counter right now, it can wait. I'm not getting lynched, not today anyway.
This is your fake town mindset, I believe. You were alone in being annoyed with the hammer. That suggests to me that your reaction is forced, as opposed natural. I didn't give a fuck if a PR was killed, I was glad the day was finally over. That's a natural town mindset.
My meta case is certainly tenuous alone. Why didn't you question my motive at the time?
Oh and no I was never interested in metadiving you. Laziness is a null tell for me. I looked at those games because wreck made it nice and easy for me.
More playing dumb.
My point is that you are trying to minimise interaction tells after your eventual townflip. I'm not getting lynched, I'm a future NK. You're swinging for me because whoever you try to get mislynched to save your own ass will end up being cleared as a result. Well I'm already virtually cleared if you flip scum. That's what I mean by a safe push.
Um...what? Let's say, for argument's sake, that I were to flip scum. How would swinging for you be safe if it's so "obvious" that you're not scum with Pine, especially if I were to flip? There's no way you come up with this as town. This feels like you just made up a new point, because you didn't want to be accused of not adding anything new.
More playing dumb.
My point is that you are trying to minimise interaction tells after your eventual townflip. I'm not getting lynched, I'm a future NK. You're swinging for me because whoever you try to get mislynched to save your own ass will end up being cleared as a result. Well I'm already virtually cleared if you flip scum. That's what I mean by a safe push.
Also, the fact that the rolefishing concept totally went over your head betrays your true mindset. If you're town, you *should* consider my comment to be potentially that of scum trying to figure out if you dropped a crumb or not. That's what I'd think if someone accused me of dropping a fake crumb when I didn't. The fact you said you didn't shows you're not thinking like town. You're thinking like scum, trying to play down what I found, rather than town trying to figure out the motive behind my comment.
- Perpetual Nonsense
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- KittyCupCake
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-With the following VT claim, I can't imagine what this could mean. -If I have any say in the matter, I'd prefer you
do
get into it.↑ Bulbazak wrote:↑ KittyCupCake wrote:
By default, people have about a 25% chance of being scum. Today, we're at 22%. 50-50 isnota null read. On the contrary, 50-50 is the ideal baseline for a lynch. If a town can manage to do 50-50 lynches every day, they win.
If you flip a coin 100 times, the odds of a single flip being heads or tails doesn't change. Now you can do certain things to the coin to effect the odds, but saying that it being flipped a certain number of times changes the odds is ridiculous. Same here. You say the odds of me flipping scum is 50/50. That means I'm at the same state as I was at the beginning of the game
No, that's not how it works. -Mafia isn't balanced like a coin. Coins have only 1 head and 1 tail. Mafia, on the other hand, has larger, and more importantly,
uneven
teams, with far more town than scum, generally at about a 3:1 ratio. If you pick a player at random as soon as Day 1 starts, they'll flip town about 75% of the time, and scum about 25%. And as the game progresses, and we gain info, those odds absolutely change for each player, otherwise, mafia would just be a game of random luck with no strategy that we're all wasting our time playing.Ideally, yes, but I have seen people do things worse than this. But, again, I'm just assuming he didn't to be safe since there's no way to know for sure.
- Paschendale
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Paschendale
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You're the only one conversing with me. And you're one of my strongest townreads.
↑ Bulbazak wrote:You asked me who the possible scum on my wagon were. I told you. Domo is a strong townread. Double I just didn't like his push and found it opportunistic and convenient. Normally I'd think there was probably scum off my wagon, but given that there's essentially blood in the water when it comes to me, they might both be on there assuming that such a lynch wouldn't come back to bite them. Essentially, you need to see who is hiding behind dead townies.
Domo is a townread now? And now backing off your contention that there's scum pushing you?
On the first point, I really did get confused, and that's not something I'd try to fake as scum. There are too many people who would catch crap like that. On the second, the suggestion that TW would think outing an investigation result would get him site banned is absurd, and the only reason Domo would suggest such a thing is so that he could push the "TW got a guilty on Bulba" angle if he so chose. I'm showing that the reasoning is off, which is consistent with all of Domo's pushes.
And now Bulba wants to push you for a duplicitious reason? This is very inconsistent.
Well, there's the typical reasons of she's actually scumhunting and trying to figure the game out (well, except when it comes to me. That actually bothers me a bit.). However, there are other reasons that I just can't get into. You'll have to trust me on this one. We are never lynching Kitty.
All she's done is sheep the loud players and complain about me. How the hell do you get a townread on her?
What are you smoking?! Domo has not been making well founded arguments at all! I just got done showing everything wrong with his arguments! I have shown that his pushes on me only come when I'm under intense pressure. I've shown that his stance is opportunistic and that he's hiding behind the reads of dead town. And how have I been flying under the radar? I have been heavily scrutinized since day freaking 1! I've been extremely vocal about my reads. Sure, I was not moving my vote from TW d2, but that was because I was determined to lynch him for that quick hammer. I absolutely hate this post. There's no way town Pasch even thinks this, because I know you're much better than this. The only reason you'd say this would be to buddy Domo.
You think his attack on you isn't well founded. The rest of the game, which you have largely coasted through, has been much better. I actually agree with some of your points about Domo's case, especially the bit about the crumbing. I don't know what's going on there. But to suggest that Domo isn't making genuine arugments is a bold-faced lie. You have not been heavily scrutinized. You've been casually called scum without much examination. TW was heavily scrutinized. Shiny was heavily scrutinized. I was heavily scrutinized for a little while. And then you call me scum suddenly, because I think that someone has a good point about you? Please, spare us the bull.
Come to think of it, I didn't like you saying that Mastin was scumread the entire game, as he was pretty obvious town d2, as I pointed out.
I stopped arguing for Mastin being scum after her soft claim at the start of day 2. You would know that if you were paying half as careful attention to day 2 as you claim to have been.
I'll be honest, I didn't see this at all. I think maybe you're succumbing to confirmation bias here.
I've seen a lot of people genuinely flip out over quickhammers before. What do you think about his quietness during day 2, though?
↑ KittyCupCake wrote:No, that's not how it works. -Mafia isn't balanced like a coin. Coins have only 1 head and 1 tail. Mafia, on the other hand, has larger, and more importantly,uneventeams, with far more town than scum, generally at about a 3:1 ratio. If you pick a player at random as soon as Day 1 starts, they'll flip town about 75% of the time, and scum about 25%. And as the game progresses, and we gain info, those odds absolutely change for each player, otherwise, mafia would just be a game of random luck with no strategy that we're all wasting our time playing.
This kind of certainty, not even about someone's alignment, but the ODDS of someone's alignment, smells like a big, steaming pile of bullshit.
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↑ Paschendale wrote:Come to think of it, I didn't like you saying that Mastin was scumread the entire game, as he was pretty obvious town d2, as I pointed out.
I stopped arguing for Mastin being scum after her soft claim at the start of day 2. You would know that if you were paying half as careful attention to day 2 as you claim to have been.
Domo was referring to when I said mastin's flip wasn't a surprise and you pretended you were shocked by her being town.
↑ Paschendale wrote:
I'll be honest, I didn't see this at all. I think maybe you're succumbing to confirmation bias here.
"I'll be honest." -Because you generally haven't been.
↑ Paschendale wrote:This kind of certainty, not even about someone's alignment, but the ODDS of someone's alignment, smells like a big, steaming pile of bullshit.
How many scum were there at the start of the game? 1? 12? -No. I'd guess 3, maybe 4,
maybe
2, but normally 3. 2/13 = 15%; 3/13 = 23%; 4/13=31%; but, generally, about 25% is the number in mafia or the game is broken. This isn't a secret. This basic mafia.- KittyCupCake
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Oh, that first quote was Bulba, not Domo, but the point stands.
This:
And this:
Plus this:
Just doesn't work.
This:
↑ Paschendale wrote:This isn't even a little bit true. Mastin and TW were two of the most contentious players and were consistently near the tops of many scumlists.↑ KittyCupCake wrote:We're almost exactly where we were Yesterday, to the point where I'm looking at this as Day 2 Part 2, post-intermission.
And this:
↑ Paschendale wrote:
↑ KittyCupCake wrote:The flips we've gotten since then are unsurprising and don't add much info that affect Today's decision/would've affected Yesterday's.
I was certainly surprised.
Plus this:
↑ Paschendale wrote:I stopped arguing for Mastin being scum after her soft claim at the start of day 2. You would know that if you were paying half as careful attention to day 2 as you claim to have been.Come to think of it, I didn't like you saying that Mastin was scumread the entire game, as he was pretty obvious town d2, as I pointed out.
Just doesn't work.
- Paschendale
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Paschendale
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Sure it works. It works easily if you think about it for more than two seconds. Many people were scumreading Mastin, myself including. I didn't argue the point because, despite most of her actions being counterproductive to town and her arguments wrong and poorly substantiated, her claim wasn't countered or contested. I stopped pushing for her, despite her really looking like scum. Turns out it was just really poor play (which is still surprisingly uncharacteristic for her), instead of malicious motives. I would still not have been surprised if the claim was a lie and she really was scum.
Seriously, how is this difficult?
Seriously, how is this difficult?
- Bulbazak
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I reevaluated my Mastin read during the night based on the Pine flip and determined there was no way Mastin-scum would bus a player like Pine, especially when Pine was the encryptor. Ergo, Mastin was town, and I announced that at the start of the day. But you want to talk about town mindsets? A town mindset would have been to ask me about why I was suddenly reading Mastin as town, not to say I was faking a crumb. A town mindset is inquisitive, not accusational.
Do you want to know how I know this is fake? Because you've seen my promise to quick lynch anybody who quickhammered in NY165. I was town and you were scum, so for you to say that my reaction was not natural is huge lie.
Because you were making a theory based off of two games, hence why I said why you were wrong and invited you to do more research to get a better read. Your subsequent attack was what I had the problem with, not the initial meta case.
↑ DOMO wrote:
Um...what? Let's say, for argument's sake, that I were to flip scum. How would swinging for you be safe if it's so "obvious" that you're not scum with Pine, especially if I were to flip? There's no way you come up with this as town. This feels like you just made up a new point, because you didn't want to be accused of not adding anything new.
More playing dumb.
My point is that you are trying to minimise interaction tells after your eventual townflip. I'm not getting lynched, I'm a future NK. You're swinging for me because whoever you try to get mislynched to save your own ass will end up being cleared as a result. Well I'm already virtually cleared if you flip scum. That's what I mean by a safe push.
But that was not what you were saying at all. You were saying that my attacking you was meant to draw attention to you after I flipped scum, which doesn't make any sense. I just can't see this argument coming from a town PoV.
↑ DOMO wrote:
Also, the fact that the rolefishing concept totally went over your head betrays your true mindset. If you're town, you *should* consider my comment to be potentially that of scum trying to figure out if you dropped a crumb or not. That's what I'd think if someone accused me of dropping a fake crumb when I didn't. The fact you said you didn't shows you're not thinking like town. You're thinking like scum, trying to play down what I found, rather than town trying to figure out the motive behind my comment.
Why wouldn't town clarify if a comment was a crumb or not? If it's not, then you simply say it's not and explain, which allows other players to see your mindset. That's why town wouldn't vote afterward, because it could very likely be a misunderstanding, and saying "Fake crumb!" is not a reason to vote someone. The better question should be why would town vote someone that accused them of faking a crumb?
↑ KittyCupCake wrote:
-With the following VT claim, I can't imagine what this could mean. -If I have any say in the matter, I'd prefer youdoget into it.
Kitty I'll say this: I notice a lot more than people think I do, and I don't always say anything about it. This is what was annoying me about Mastin, because she should know my scum play well enough to know better. She should have known that if I was scum and thought she was a PR, she would have been dead n1. In fact, if I'm scum and I think anyone is a PR, then they're a night kill target. I figured you out d1, and it wasn't very hard, and the fact that you are still alive and questioning me should speak volumes to you. So if I were you, I would stop asking me why you're a town read. Understood?
↑ Paschendale wrote:
You're the only one conversing with me. And you're one of my strongest townreads.
↑ Bulbazak wrote:You asked me who the possible scum on my wagon were. I told you. Domo is a strong townread. Double I just didn't like his push and found it opportunistic and convenient. Normally I'd think there was probably scum off my wagon, but given that there's essentially blood in the water when it comes to me, they might both be on there assuming that such a lynch wouldn't come back to bite them. Essentially, you need to see who is hiding behind dead townies.
Domo is a townread now? And now backing off your contention that there's scum pushing you?
I think it's fairly clear that I meant scum read. It's disturbing me that you are honing in on a nitpicky wording mistake and using it as a means to discredit me.
↑ Paschendale wrote:
What are you smoking?! Domo has not been making well founded arguments at all! I just got done showing everything wrong with his arguments! I have shown that his pushes on me only come when I'm under intense pressure. I've shown that his stance is opportunistic and that he's hiding behind the reads of dead town. And how have I been flying under the radar? I have been heavily scrutinized since day freaking 1! I've been extremely vocal about my reads. Sure, I was not moving my vote from TW d2, but that was because I was determined to lynch him for that quick hammer. I absolutely hate this post. There's no way town Pasch even thinks this, because I know you're much better than this. The only reason you'd say this would be to buddy Domo.
You think his attack on you isn't well founded. The rest of the game, which you have largely coasted through, has been much better. I actually agree with some of your points about Domo's case, especially the bit about the crumbing. I don't know what's going on there. But to suggest that Domo isn't making genuine arugments is a bold-faced lie. You have not been heavily scrutinized. You've been casually called scum without much examination. TW was heavily scrutinized. Shiny was heavily scrutinized. I was heavily scrutinized for a little while. And then you call me scum suddenly, because I think that someone has a good point about you? Please, spare us the bull.
First, I have not been coasting, and a good read of my ISO should prove that. If you are going to continue to attack me in such a manner, you better back it up, because that is such a weak and easy attack and is very scummy. Second, I have been heavily scrutinized. Heck, all of the focus of d2 was on me and TW, with me taking the lion's share of the attention. Saying that I've been casually called scum is a lie. Finally, I'm disturbed that you are slipping into calling points lies a lot, because the last time I saw you do that in a game, you were scum.
↑ Paschendale wrote:
Come to think of it, I didn't like you saying that Mastin was scumread the entire game, as he was pretty obvious town d2, as I pointed out.
I stopped arguing for Mastin being scum after her soft claim at the start of day 2. You would know that if you were paying half as careful attention to day 2 as you claim to have been.
But your point was that Mastin was a contentious read and was scum read throughout the game, which is clearly not true. Here you say it's not true and then accuse me of not paying attention, even though that statement goes against what your original argument was.
I would be open to a Pasch lynch.
Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.
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↑ Paschendale wrote:Sure it works. It works easily if you think about it for more than two seconds.Many people were scumreading Mastin, myself including.
Oh, really? -Because it looks like pasch disagrees with that assessment:
↑ Paschendale wrote:
This doesn't even make sense. The entire town is definitely not saying you're Wreck's buddy.You're pretty universally townreadfor your incredibly vague PR claim earlier.
I'm sorry. -Keeping up with contradictory, whatever happens to be convenient, bullshit scum logic has never been my strong suit.↑ Paschendale wrote:Seriously, how is this difficult?
↑ Bulbazak wrote:↑ KittyCupCake wrote:
-With the following VT claim, I can't imagine what this could mean. -If I have any say in the matter, I'd prefer youdoget into it.
Kitty I'll say this: I notice a lot more than people think I do, and I don't always say anything about it. This is what was annoying me about Mastin, because she should know my scum play well enough to know better. She should have known that if I was scum and thought she was a PR, she would have been dead n1. In fact, if I'm scum and I think anyone is a PR, then they're a night kill target. I figured you out d1, and it wasn't very hard, and the fact that you are still alive and questioning me should speak volumes to you. So if I were you, I would stop asking me why you're a town read. Understood?
Not really. -I haven't breadcrumbed anything; that's generally not something I do except in
very
specific and rare situations. So, whatever you think you're seeing, please share.