Open 581: Making Friends and Enemies! (Game over)

[Armageddon]

Vote count
Day 1.4

Players alive: 13

Players needed to lynch: 7

awesomeusername

- 1 - Grib - (L-6)

CorpsesInEthanol

- 3 - Kaboose, Green Crayons, Riddleton - (L-4)

elleheathen

- 2 - CorpsesInEthanol, Cheetory6 - (L-5)

Kaboose

- 1 - awesomeusername - (L-6)

Riddleton

- 2 - NJAC, I Love Fairies - (L-5)

Whatisswag

- 3 - Hannibal6, davesaz, elleheathen - (L-4)

Players not voting: Whatisswag

Mod notes:

CorpsesInEthanol is V/LA
Hannibal6 has failed to respond to his prod and will be replaced.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2015-01-14 20:45:00)

[/b]

[davesaz]

@Kaboose:

Town gains nothing by lynching town. I play as town with a primary objective of lynching scum and a secondary objective of becoming obvtown (ie not being lynched).

To do so, I try to anticipate how both town and scum might scum read me.
That scum do this too is immaterial, other than to say that doing it is not alignment indicative for me.

[Kaboose]

@Kaboose:

Town gains nothing by lynching town. I play as town with a primary objective of lynching scum and a secondary objective of becoming obvtown (ie not being lynched).

To do so, I try to anticipate how both town and scum might scum read me.
That scum do this too is immaterial, other than to say that doing it is not alignment indicative for me.

But you're attempting to do something that you, as town, can't know 100% how anyone will read you. You could say green while someone is thinking blue and you're scum. But in your head you were thinking green, and expecting everyone else to think white. I mean that's probably a terrible example but my point is you're trying to justify to me that your style is a good way to play town by you predicting other people which has to be one of the hardest thing to do in life, much less this game.

The only way your style would work is as scum, because they know most of the answers and would know much more what to expect out of what they say than a town person could ever expect.

[davesaz]

That doesn't make any sense at all.

Someone has found an action scummy in the past. The next time I do it, I anticipate someone will again. I'm not predicting which people will see a given action as scummy, I'm explaining anything I think it's a reasonably high percentage that anyone might think is scummy.

[davesaz]

You might plausibly say it's unnecessary for me to do that as town where as scum I'd think it is necessary, but you'd be wrong.
As I said, I have a secondary personal goal as town to be a town read so that fellow town don't waste their time trying to lynch me.

[Riddleton]

prodge

[Armageddon]

Lone Ranger replaces Hannibal6.

[elleheathen]

Give me a read on elle with reasoning, when you get the time. I know you were asked this recently:
She has almost 30 posts. Surely there's something in there that makes you think she's leaning town or scum?

Null leaning scum. At the point in time of my previous answer, she was null-town. Since then the only things she has posted have been to take my side in my push on swag. She even asked if I thought her defending me was town or scum. This doesn't seem very town to me, it's like she wanted to know if it was safe to continue or not.

1) It was never

your

push on swag. Telling someone to 'fuck off' isn't exactly a push on them.

2) Wanting to see if you'd actually commit to a read vs fence-sitting isn't town?

[Cheetory6]

@Elle, I had a line of questioning for you, but I feel like the response wouldn't be informative.
Basically, it seemed to me like:

What changed between then and now?

My read, obviously.

Was implying that you were scumreading him rather than trying to sort him, but the followup in response to me seemed more geared towards you saying that you were trying to sort him again. Realized on reflection that asking you about it wouldn't really yield anything productive because "oh I was just saying that I wasn't townreading him and am now nullreading him" was likely to be your response regardless of what your alignment is.

Let's go somewhere else from here. What do you make of Kaboose's softpush on you?

[davesaz]

@elle: I think you dodged the most telling part of the post of mine that you quoted. It doesn't look like you're doing anything else which isn't followup on the swag read.

[Kaboose]

@Elle, I had a line of questioning for you, but I feel like the response wouldn't be informative.
Basically, it seemed to me like:

What changed between then and now?

My read, obviously.

Was implying that you were scumreading him rather than trying to sort him, but the followup in response to me seemed more geared towards you saying that you were trying to sort him again. Realized on reflection that asking you about it wouldn't really yield anything productive because "oh I was just saying that I wasn't townreading him and am now nullreading him" was likely to be your response regardless of what your alignment is.

Let's go somewhere else from here. What do you make of Kaboose's softpush on you?

Oh good someone brings it up for me!

What did you think of the post of hers I quoted? I don't know what to make of it but it seemed weird.

[davesaz]

Let's go somewhere else from here. What do you make of Kaboose's softpush on you?

Does this go with the post it appears in, or did you perhaps intend to say more between the body of the post and this line?

[davesaz]

Disregard 336, I think I found the reference...
There are 3 of us converging on the same question btw.

[Cheetory6]

What do you think about my defense of you in #238?

Do you think I'm more likely to be scum trying to buddy you with it or town not wanting to see you lynched because of it?

Why do I hate this question? Like, why are you looking for a confirmation from just one person for a town or scum read? I just I don't know, I'm probably not smart enough to put it in to words but this question here just does something to me inside.

I see the scum-motivation in trying to prod people for their reads on you so you can adjust your play accordingly, however, I've seen some townplayers do stuff like this in the last few games I've been in, so I'm more inclined to nullread this particular post.

I think I'm more troubled by how safe her play up until her push on Swag has felt, but I admit this is more of a tone argument on my part and I won't be surprised if nobody will listen to me on this point alone.

[Kaboose]

What do you think about my defense of you in #238?

Do you think I'm more likely to be scum trying to buddy you with it or town not wanting to see you lynched because of it?

Why do I hate this question? Like, why are you looking for a confirmation from just one person for a town or scum read? I just I don't know, I'm probably not smart enough to put it in to words but this question here just does something to me inside.

I see the scum-motivation in trying to prod people for their reads on you so you can adjust your play accordingly, however, I've seen some townplayers do stuff like this in the last few games I've been in, so I'm more inclined to nullread this particular post.

I think I'm more troubled by how safe her play up until her push on Swag has felt, but I admit this is more of a tone argument on my part and I won't be surprised if nobody will listen to me on this point alone.

I guess it would be too obvious for a scum member to be like "If I said this, or since I said that, do you find it scummy or townie" but I just don't see why a town person who is scum hunting would make this a worry. Like do I worry that someone may read me as scum based on me trying to help solve the game? Sure, but I'm not going to be worried enough to stop what I'm doing to ask for confirmation before I proceed. Could you imagine if that's how we played?

Am I alone in my thought that scum are more likely to care about what they look like than a town person? Especially since there aren't any cops or doctors who need to alter their play a bit to make it to day 2.

I'm scum reading Dave, Elle, and still Corpses.

I will say though, maybe it's just me, but this game still seems to be suffering from a bit of holiday hangover. We need some more interactions in here to get people talking and slipping.

Grib! I'm starting at the top of the VC. Do you still find awesomeusername scummy and deserving of your vote? I'll research the answer myself, but if you get a chance let's talk about him. We have a bit of a connection, you're voting awesome, awesome is voting me. I think you also told me I was stupid once or twice in this game. I don't like you for that. Oh and I haven't forgot, I'm going to get to your Green Crayons inquiry as well.

[Grib]

UNVOTE:

Grib! I'm starting at the top of the VC. Do you still find awesomeusername scummy and deserving of your vote? I'll research the answer myself, but if you get a chance let's talk about him. We have a bit of a connection, you're voting awesome, awesome is voting me. I think you also told me I was stupid once or twice in this game. I don't like you for that. Oh and I haven't forgot, I'm going to get to your Green Crayons inquiry as well.

Hi there.

Not at all. In fact, I liked his response to me after I voted him and thought about unvoting him. But then I got caught up in trying to poke at other people (specifically you, dave, and elle (mostly by association, I'll interact with her directly at some point)), and sort of forgot about my vote on awesomeusername.

I believe I said one of your points sucked, not that you were stupid. Let's at least be accurate.

I'll be waiting.

[Grib]

Give me a read on elle with reasoning, when you get the time. I know you were asked this recently:
She has almost 30 posts. Surely there's something in there that makes you think she's leaning town or scum?

Null leaning scum. At the point in time of my previous answer, she was null-town. Since then the only things she has posted have been to take my side in my push on swag. She even asked if I thought her defending me was town or scum. This doesn't seem very town to me, it's like she wanted to know if it was safe to continue or not.

1) It was never

your

push on swag. Telling someone to 'fuck off' isn't exactly a push on them.

2) Wanting to see if you'd actually commit to a read vs fence-sitting isn't town?

Eh. I'm too impatient. I don't like this post, and there's something else I want to look into.

VOTE: elleheathen

Hi elle. Could I trouble you for your current reads on Kaboose, davesaz, and Green Crayons?

[elleheathen]

@elle: I think you dodged the most telling part of the post of mine that you quoted. It doesn't look like you're doing anything else which isn't followup on the swag read.

Nothing to dodge - it's not like you directed a question to me. You're stating an opinion and I don't really care what you think it

looks

like.

[elleheathen]

Let's go somewhere else from here. What do you make of Kaboose's softpush on you?

What's there to make of it - its a one question softpush.

And in it, he's basically just regurgitating davesaz's read on me from #316.

What's your read on Kaboose?

[elleheathen]

Let's go somewhere else from here. What do you make of Kaboose's softpush on you?

What's there to make of it - its a one question softpush.

And in it, he's basically just regurgitating davesaz's read on me from #316.

What's your read on Kaboose?

[elleheathen]

Hi Grib, lol

Kaboose and davesaz are in my not to be lynched today pile - GC is in my not to be lynched ever pile.

In other words, I have GC as a strong town read. I'm still holding to my feels that the first to confirms will be the least likely to be scums and would rather lynch outside of them today - unless they really just do something that starts absolutely screaming scum to me.

Yes, yes, it

is

super convenient that I'm one of those first to confirms.

[Cheetory6]

@elle

, so you think he's regurgitating things that dave has said, but you have no opinion on whether that's scummy or townish? Do you think he's being opportunistic?

Will answer your question shortly.

[Grib]

Why are Kaboose and davesaz in your "not to be lynched toDay" pile?

Who confirmed when is largely irrelevant. Especially when the game started around the holidays.

[elleheathen]

@elle

, so you think he's regurgitating things that dave has said, but you have no opinion on whether that's scummy or townish? Do you think he's being opportunistic?

It's more scummy than town but it can come from either.

[elleheathen]

Why are Kaboose and davesaz in your "not to be lynched toDay" pile?

. I'm still holding to

my feels that the first to confirms will be the least likely to be scums

and would rather lynch outside of them today - unless they really just do something that starts absolutely screaming scum to me.

Who confirmed when is largely irrelevant. Especially when the game started around the holidays.

It's right on 1/4, why not the others.

But yes, I get what you're saying and I even partially agree that it may be largely flawed due to the holidays. It's why I've amended that they're not in my vote pool for

today

unless I'm

reaaaally

sure they're scum.