Mini 1630: Edgar Allan Poe uPick GAME OVER!

[copper223]

@Krystal
You have a fence/leaning scum on Lynx? Can you explain that read in more detail?

[Ghatokaca]

3) we might not even end up using it because of how swingy it will make the game.

You should probably be using the ability because 1) we're on evens so it seems like game's balanced for your loverizing shot and 2) it makes you essentially confirmed town.

PL gets no townpoints for that opening, he literally went down the "what makes morph townread something on the first post" list and checked every box as he went. Which seems too deliberate and targeted at me?

Loverizer claim dn't do anything for you?

My lovely hydra partner just pointed out to me that kthx wasn't talking about lynx in the post I scumread him for, but about krystal bald. Luckily, copper is almost doing the exact same thing I was voting kthx for; discrediting lynx and blaming the wagon on lynx by asking if he drew jester.

VOTE: copper

I like medea.
-Tier

Calling people jester can be scummy for a multitude of reasons, but saying that it's "discrediting lynch and blaming the wagon on him" isn't even close to one of them, unless you'd be happy explaining this a little bit.

I think Krystal thingy's asterisk "body language" shtick is bullshit, by the way.

-TTH

I think you're probably wrong! Neither player are the types to fake this sort of shit for amusement's sake.

Copper side of copper/CoA interaction seems pretty fucking town to me, especially with his hidden "test" on KB's post restriction being true or false. It certainly rules out any possibility of a KB/Copper scumteam and seems an extraordinarily unlikely scum gambit on page 5.

Since you want to be lynched anyway, why not tell us exactly what it is?

Generally claiming town abilities is shitty because scum can play around them? I trust Lynx enough to be a good enough judge of whether his power is good enough to be lynched over: it takes either a pretty shitty player or a pretty long trip into delusional world to fuck that one up. There's also a matter of flavor and death being a giant mechanic rearing its head over the game, ffery being an unconventional moderator at times... I'm willing to take the plunge and I think your fears are you not thinking deeply enough.

1) The ghost status would be crippling for a regular-sized scum team and would prevent them from distributing votes the way I would think they'd want to. If I were essentially a tree-stump scum, I think I would announce my ghostliness immediately (something Letter didn't do) and then try to lead the town without voting by putting suspicions on people without any real risk to myself. Letter didn't do the second half of that either.

I think this is the strong reasoning for Purloined town.
My problem with the revelation of Purloined losing ghost status after a certain condition is met (X days, etc) which seems like a possible cover for "you are no longer a ghost after X amount of scum dies" meaning role is negative utility yes, but not too negative to be scum. I'm actually interested why keeping ghost information hush hush is such a big deal.

I'm trying to decide whether I'm townreading Brantz or not for basically having my reads bar Medea.

I wouldn't! The actual catchup was weak and reasonless, didn't actually address anything major that happened or give any reasons for those reads.

Lol, upset much

Is there a reason you just backed the fuck off here?
Or did you just not have anything else to say?

In summary they had done a lot of useless speculation while commenting/giving oppinions on nothing that is relevant to the game so far.

I have a lot of trouble seeing how you reached this conclusion. The push on copper made almost immediately early-game based on their opinion of Lynx (which was pretty much the only game relevant thing to talk about around the time of the posts you were criticizing) was one of the more substantive pushes in the game thus far: the useless speculation is an analysis of whether a player in the game is telling the truth or not and generally those things are pretty alignment in my world, don't know about yours. #103 wasn't a misrep at all unless you're saying *waves* is seriously a facial expression and please tell me you're not trying to argue that.

She did a very similar thing in Newbie 1551, this spirit of cooperation and trusting other fellow players would be very odd coming from scum, she could have done this to look like town but that would be kind of mean and she's a nice gal

Bookitty is town, yes.
This isn't why she's town.

Catastrophe seems fairly town considering tool's "hydra thread" quote posts, he doesn't seem like the type to fake that sort of shit (assuming toolenduso?).

Brantz. The weakest of my townreads, based almost entirely on Post 193. These reads are very close to mine.

Why not Catastrophe?

Since my vote wouldn't count, I would make my voice heard and influential.

This is the best play for either alignment.
Why is it townie when PL takes a less beneficial path?

From memory her posts are pretty town.

Then again, somewhat appeasing? Idk
Good read sunday or tonight, not sure yet.

This post sucks.
Probably no CoA/TS scumteam though.

[Ghatokaca]

ISOing Krystal Bald separately since I have to think about hand motions a lot to understand what the fuck they're saying:

*Holds her right thumb and pinky next to her ear and mouth respectively, speaking voicelessly. Appears frustrated while slapping her hand again and again, looking more irked with every iteration. Suddenly, with an enlightened look, she reaches to the top of her right hand and pulls up her middle finger. A look of understanding washes over her face and she passes the hand off to sthar8.*

I generally like this reaction to sthar's post because it's both hilarious and also highly highly unlikely to be coming from mantis-scum who for some godawful reason decided to fake a post restriction that could fuck her over later in the game if she messes up and mod doesn't punish. Although I think there's probably utility in breaking the restriction once or as many times a day you can before the day's over just so you can say some things you need to as clearly as possible.

*Points at PurloinedLetter's mouth. Touches left arm to right shoulder, and reaches into the hoop with her right forearm. Holding this position, she moves her hand around randomly, grasping at nothing. When she removes her right hand from the cavity, it is with an open palm, and she makes an effort to show you this. She shrugs.*

I agree pretty clearly, actually! I thought that the Catastrophe scumread for not explaining scumreads when Tier hadn't explained shit up to that point was pretty bad, as was backing off immediately instead of any acknowledgement like "oh whoops I fucked up" and Tier hasn't really accomplished or come close to accomplishing anything.

*Points at Catastrophe. Places her right hand palm-up and waits, staring.*

What was this about?

*Points at BRantz. Sits on an imaginary chair and pats his lap, beaming.*

Not understanding a townread here at all. Your other reads generally make sense.

*Points at PurloinedLetter. Reaches down and picks something up off the ground to show it off, then places it down again before climbing on top of it. Stretches arms and legs out to either side, as in the Warrior stance. Bends elbows and knees, and wiggles hips back and forth.*

Probably gonna need help interpreting this as well.
Also, what's your townread on CoA made out of?

[Ghatokaca]

Vote: TierShift

In other news, one of our abilities is a one-shot Neighborize of the Dead and we can use it on Lynx tonight if he wishes so he can deliver the information he gets in his reconnaissance mission and contribute throughout the day if he so wishes. If he doesn't need it, will dead neighborize Policy Lynch: that way, they can contribute as long as we live as opposed to being limited to once per night.

I'd like to test the unvoteable part of TierShift's claim just in case we can catch them doing something stupid, though I doubt we will. After ffery gives us a votecount, vote is likely gonna fall on Brantz or CoA, checking which one now.

[Ghatokaca]

BRantz. Why is anyone townreading that again? And CoA, why is BRantz's play somehow not as safe as kitty's?

For starters:

Spoiler:

FtL wanting a sample role seems strange.

Krystal post restriction?

Lynx seems to be somewhat intentionally antagonizing Policy Lynch, but I get more of a town vs town feel from their argument than scum vs town.

Don't like the talk about Lynx being a Jester.

I really like the points Policy makes in post 68.

I think maybe Lynx has a post restriction too? He doesn't, he confirms this later on by posting normally.

Why is PurloinedLetter a different color in vote counts?

Not sure I like Kthx both saying they think Krystal's post restriction is real, and asking her to prove it all in the same post 85.

I like coppers 94. Don't know why he didn't say it the first time instead of Jester speculation.

Really don't like FTL's role fishing in 111. Nor do I like 123.

I am almost certain Policy Lynch is town after post 126.

I have no idea how to feel about Lynx.

Also really like Bookitty for town.

I think Krystal actually has a restriction.

157 clears up Purloined being grey in vote counts. I think the explanation as well as the nature of it leans toward them being town.

Really like post 159 by FTL. It mirrors a lot of my own thoughts on kthx so far.

Whats the deal with egoposting?

This is probably the safest chunk of catchup reads I've seen in a good long while.
Highlights include "FTL asking for a sample VT PM looks strange", "I have no idea how to feel about lynx", "I'm almost certain Policy Lynch is town after post 126". His attempt at a case on you is something he puts out (and never votes because his vote on kthx for whatever the hell he votes kthx is about was so well-reasoned), he plays completely disconnected from his scumreads (CoA? Kthx? Why would I do anything to push those reads?), and the only townreads he talks about are gotcha townreads based pretty much entirely on claims. The only thing that gives me hesitation is that the townread on TS for claim seems a strange interaction for scumbuddies although it is horribly reasoned (I feel TS would have told us the exact number of days if scum so super town!!! is wrong because it's obviously wrong and doesn't make sense if he thinks the role is too negative utility to be coming from scum), so that bit's still up in the air.

[Ghatokaca]

CoA is not as bad as BRantz, although bad pushes on Bookitty and copper (although you seemed to have cooled down on that read?) seem not good to me.

And

even with the stated conclusion that we should lynch Lynx, the vote's nowhere in sight even though there's really nothing to wait for, which looks more like scum not wanting to look overeager than anything. She pays a lot of lip service to more discussion while not attempting to make much progress in developing more refined reads. They remain fairly skeletal.

-TTH

Looks more like "scum wanting to look overeager" as opposed to "townie forgetting they have to lynch the townie in order to advance wincon"? You're like a Bookitty vote means a hammer on Lynx, but really it's just a vote on a preapproved lynch that most people are going to go along with anyways (which is similar to a cop guilty!). And I'd also like to point out that there are 0 votes on Lynx at the moment where a number of people greater than 1 approve the kill Lynx plan, so are they all scum afraid they'll look overeager for that townie vote?

I agree her reads are still a bit unrefined, but this game hasn't really been drowning in next-level content unless I've somehow missed a whole bunch in my readthrough. Why are Bookitty surface reads special?

[Ghatokaca]

CoA's not as half as bad as BRantz, came down a bit hard thanks to a townread on Bookitty but I think a large degree of that is because of tone and because of her sharing similar perspectives with me. Still think that she's probably town and still lean scum on CoA but those two perspectives have weakened a bit after catchup is complete.

[Bookitty]

Assuming you can communicate after death, which seems to be an ability that some town players have, you use your self-watch tonight. If scum is as afraid of your dead-ability as you think, they will nightkill you, giving you a guilty result that you can communicate to a townie and effectively forcing scum to trade one of them for you, which is a positive outcome for town. If they're not willing to trade, we can always lynch you later for whatever value your death provides.

Lynx has said that his ability does not work if he is NKed. It only works if he is lynched. So your plan will in no way work.

I feel like you didn't even read my posts and just decided to scumread me, since you don't know this most basic fact of the discussions that have taken place. I already talked to Lynx about this. And to others.

[copper223]

@Boo
Lynx also has the other ability (which he considered negative...), which sthar8 calls self watcher, that tells him who targeted him during the night, assuming it works with faction kills, if scum targets him he can tell us.

[copper223]

Gatho's also seems pretty town but the vote ability on purloined was already tested (there's a votecount with a vote on him but 0 sctually counted).

[copper223]

phone posting

[Bookitty]

Why not Catastrophe?

I'm not sure, honestly. I get warm and fuzzy feelings from Cat's postings, but I guess I'm waiting for more? I know that Brantz putting Cask at the bottom was one of the key reasons I was developing a townread on him, because I don't think I'd said that in the thread but I was really thinking that Cask was scum when Brantz posted.

I don't really understand Krystal wanting to hear from both sides of a hydra before {reading them? This is a guess}. I usually just read a hydra from whatever side is posting.

@Krystal: Do you think you can read TSO better than tool?

@Copper: Lynx said he wants to be lynched because his power doesn't activate on NK. Only he can read his role PM. Either we trust him or we don't. I want to trust him.

[copper223]

Because lynching me D1 (or as early as possible seems to be the best use of my ability. As far aa negative utility, I'm not Miller, I can see what power role is used on me at night. Which is... nice? I'd just rather give town a fantastic reconnaisance opportunity through this lynch.

[copper223]

He claims he has 2 abilities, one always active at night and one he can activate by getting lynched.

[Bookitty]

It's only the second power that I'm concerned with (if we are making the right assumptions about his powers anyway). It's very unlikely that scum (or town, or anyone) would target him after he's dead imo.

[copper223]

Sure, but sthar8 was arguing for letting him live and use this to either trade or get a 1 for 1, imo you should all separate the moral question about supporting others from the alignment of said players, that's more of a playstile indicator.

[LynxKuroneko]

Copper223 can vote for me. Nice that he pays attention.

Krystal can vote, too.

[copper223]

Fine Lynx, hope you know what you are doing.

VOTE: Lynx

[Ghatokaca]

Copper223 can vote for me. Nice that he pays attention.

Krystal can vote, too.

Do you want to be neighborized after you die?

[copper223]

I still think that catch-up from kthxbye was ridiculously scummy btw.

[copper223]

Agreeing with everything I said but not updating his reads in any way, that nonsense about being really hurt about Krystal scumreading him which reads fake by itself and then he flips it around in the next post with the self conscious "I don't really care mate, you are just a town read of mine and we should work together", he is also trying too hard to stick to his I give no fucks D1 meta by constantly repeating he will lynch anything that moves other than his town reads.

[Bookitty]

I'm looking at a few different scenarios here while trying to sort what I'm thinking. Numbering them to make it easier to comment/criticise:

1. Lynx is town to me, so I'm not considering jester. That can be wrong but I'm sure it's not.
2. If we lynch Lynx, I feel like we're going to lose another of my strong townreads, probably one with a claimed power role. I don't want to lose even one, PR or not.
3. We don't know if we have a doc/protective in the game. THIS IS NOT ASKING FOR A CLAIM. Don't do it. If we do, that could be an argument for not lynching Lynx and trying to keep scum guessing about who to kill and who will be protected.
4. So if we don't lynch Lynx and we trust that there's someone out there who will make the right choice on who to keep safe then we might spook scum into NKing someone else. (I'm perfectly fine with trying to direct scum NKs, but I dinna think they will listen to me :p )
5. For me, lynching Lynx is giving up two townreads for the price of one. I hate this. But I'm still thinking about it, because if Lynx's power is all that, then maybe, maybe it's worth it. I simply don't know. I think scum would want to NK him given the things Lynx has said about his role.
6. So, I think there's no way we don't lose Lynx as a living player. I'm calculating odds on whether I think {the person I believe will be NKed if we lynch Lynx} will be more valuable to us for Day Two.
7. Ghato's plan seems really good to me if it will work. I prefer it.

@Lynx: If Ghato neighbourises you, will you still be able to use your power?

[LynxKuroneko]

My power would still happen if Neighborized. Neighborize me only if you feel I'm worth being a neighbor, obviously.

As for loverizer guy, you can either loverize two D1 non-voting players or wait one more day to find scummier targets.

[Ghatokaca]

Also, Ceph, if it helps, I'm about 95% sure I know what Lynx is claiming and he's absolutely 100% playing his role correctly.

3. We don't know if we have a doc/protective in the game. THIS IS NOT ASKING FOR A CLAIM. Don't do it. If we do, that could be an argument for not lynching Lynx and trying to keep scum guessing about who to kill and who will be protected.

There is very likely a protective in the game. This protective should probably 99% be on Policy Lynch tonight, considering they are very very confirmed town: giving town an extra killing role while taking a mislynch away from town and putting a town role in the game that should push for its own lynch is essentially the epitome of shitty setup design. The only benefit leaving town Lynx alive is maybe he won't be killed? But it actually gives the doctor two targets to protect instead of one and that's bad.

6. So, I think there's no way we don't lose Lynx as a living player. I'm calculating odds on whether I think {the person I believe will be NKed if we lynch Lynx} will be more valuable to us for Day Two.

If there were a player strong enough to be more valuable than Lynx's power, they would have solved the game by now.

[Ghatokaca]

My power would still happen if Neighborized. Neighborize me only if you feel I'm worth being a neighbor, obviously.

As for loverizer guy, you can either loverize two D1 non-voting players or wait one more day to find scummier targets.

Neighborizing you means that message + my neighborize guarantees the information from your Great Journey to Heaven comes to town, unless it's public and we have no need for that worry, in which case I'll find out when you cross over.