Open 581: Making Friends and Enemies! (Game over)

[Green Crayons]

By mason fishing, are you referring to his hypo-claim scenario from D1?

I didn't think that it was a bad idea, but not one that I would ultimately endorse. And while I can see how having everyone claim mason and their targeted recruits could potentially reveal the masons (but... not really?), I don't think that makes the idea ultimately one that would come from scum.

Also, not sure why scum would put forward such a strategy.

[Heartless]

alright, i think tth is on the right track

VOTE: green crayons

[Heartless]

Mala, I'm leaning town due to circumstances surrounding her,

i am too

since this is tth's trouble spot i took another look at awesomeusername+mala and it wasn't NEARLY as bad as i remember it being.

re: awesome. yeah, true, the dude hedges a lot, but he hedges A LOT. "pros then cons" seems like a motif in his iso. check out the read on green crayons in Post 166. i mean...there's really no reason to be that way as scum on a read like gc. gc wasn't a marginal case. same for dave in Post 410

re: mala. she didn't hedge so much as she didn't really do anything, which is to be expected given v/la

[Heartless]

Yes, I had reservations about the elle suspicions. That's why I talked to her about my suspicions, and ended up deciding against voting her. Your problem with my play is that I didn't say "hey I have some doubts about my suspicions of you, just a head's up as we go into this conversation"?

There's a balance between being open with the town and sabotaging one's suspicions. I choose not to completely undermine my suspicions.

As for "resolv this doubt," it's there if you want to look for it. Post 573 and Post 574 was the tipping point where my elle suspicions started to deflate. I was much more secure in reading elle as town by Post 659 (was phone posting at night so didn't feel like going into a blow by blow), and I made explicit this development in my elle read in Post 880 back when your other half had a hardon for calling elle scum.

well that leaves us w/ a problem. namely that the only thing that coincides w/ your elle read is the rise and fall of the wagon.

[Heartless]

I don't really know how to respond to your "lack of refined" criticism. Mainly because I disagree with it.

My posts explained who I thought was town, and why, and who I thought was scum, and why. I interacted with players who I thought were scum, and my opinions either shifted (Corpses, elle) or they did not (dave, Ranger). I don't know what this something "else" is that you're faulting me for failing to have done. This is just how I play the game.

Also, dave, Fairies, and NJAC votes all occurred after I started to, or had already, smoothed over my suspicions on elle. (There's a Ranger vote that was made in there, too, that you seem to ignore.) That's why they took priority over elle. She wasn't an interesting lynch when I voted elsewhere, because she was looking increasingly more town.

ooooo yeah, make a big deal out of tth missing yet another low-profile, low-impact vote on a wagon that never got past "vanity" status. all the votes d1 are on marginal cases and you never pumped the gas on any of them. and it's not like you don't know how to, you're cranking up the rhetoric for mala right now.

[Whatisswag]

It is probably Kaboose+ Green + (Mala/elle)

I believe that there are two scum out of this four.

[Whatisswag]

Since there is no reaction on Kaboose, I would have to move my baseline back a bit. I would be happy with a Mala or elle lynch too.

[Green Crayons]

Yes, I had reservations about the elle suspicions. That's why I talked to her about my suspicions, and ended up deciding against voting her. Your problem with my play is that I didn't say "hey I have some doubts about my suspicions of you, just a head's up as we go into this conversation"?

There's a balance between being open with the town and sabotaging one's suspicions. I choose not to completely undermine my suspicions.

As for "resolv this doubt," it's there if you want to look for it. Post 573 and Post 574 was the tipping point where my elle suspicions started to deflate. I was much more secure in reading elle as town by Post 659 (was phone posting at night so didn't feel like going into a blow by blow), and I made explicit this development in my elle read in Post 880 back when your other half had a hardon for calling elle scum.

well that leaves us w/ a problem. namely that the only thing that coincides w/ your elle read is the rise and fall of the wagon.

This is a pretty big bullshit line, so I'll let you rethink it.

[Green Crayons]

I don't really know how to respond to your "lack of refined" criticism. Mainly because I disagree with it.

My posts explained who I thought was town, and why, and who I thought was scum, and why. I interacted with players who I thought were scum, and my opinions either shifted (Corpses, elle) or they did not (dave, Ranger). I don't know what this something "else" is that you're faulting me for failing to have done. This is just how I play the game.

Also, dave, Fairies, and NJAC votes all occurred after I started to, or had already, smoothed over my suspicions on elle. (There's a Ranger vote that was made in there, too, that you seem to ignore.) That's why they took priority over elle. She wasn't an interesting lynch when I voted elsewhere, because she was looking increasingly more town.

ooooo yeah, make a big deal out of tth missing yet another low-profile, low-impact vote on a wagon that never got past "vanity" status. all the votes d1 are on marginal cases and you never pumped the gas on any of them. and it's not like you don't know how to, you're cranking up the rhetoric for mala right now.

Big deal? Hardly. But it is worth noting that, in the process of analyzing my D1 votes, TTH ignores my D1 vote with the biggest back and forth attached to it. This is a weird defensive thing for you to jump on.

lol at failing to pump the gas. People won't give the time of day to even comment on my suspicions, and that makes me scummy? That's a laugh.

Also I love this imaginary world that exists where I've created this huge push against Mala that differs from my votes on Dave, Fairies, and Ranger. It's the same situation. I lay out my suspicions. If people ask about them, I respond. Nobody joins me. Ta da.

[Green Crayons]

I feel strongest town is Grib, elle, and Picard.

Lean town is swag, Kaboose. I have yet to see a case on either that'd actually convince me that my town reads are incorrect.

Heartless is null/lean town, as half of the hydra raises my hackles but the other half looks like genuine reading.

Titus is null/lean town, as I was reading Riddle as town and Ttus is hard for me to read - I wouldn't know what her scum game would look like.

That leaves Mala, Ranger, and dave. I doubt I'm right on all three, but this case has been mostly spot the town rather than find the scum, for me.

[Green Crayons]

Mala, I'm leaning town due to circumstances surrounding her, but nothing regarding her own play.

Mala wasn't V/LA at the end of D1 as far as I remember.

She can confirm or deny, but her limited access didn't happen until after D1. And so after her suspicious play.

[Whatisswag]

I feel strongest town is Grib, elle, and Picard.

Lean town is swag, Kaboose. I have yet to see a case on either that'd actually convince me that my town reads are incorrect.

Heartless is null/lean town, as half of the hydra raises my hackles but the other half looks like genuine reading.

Titus is null/lean town, as I was reading Riddle as town and Ttus is hard for me to read - I wouldn't know what her scum game would look like.

That leaves Mala, Ranger, and dave. I doubt I'm right on all three, but this case has been mostly spot the town rather than find the scum, for me.

dave is town. So something about your null and town is wrong.

[Whatisswag]

I feel strongest town is Grib, elle, and Picard.

Lean town is swag, Kaboose. I have yet to see a case on either that'd actually convince me that my town reads are incorrect.

Heartless is null/lean town, as half of the hydra raises my hackles but the other half looks like genuine reading.

Titus is null/lean town, as I was reading Riddle as town and Ttus is hard for me to read - I wouldn't know what her scum game would look like.

That leaves Mala, Ranger, and dave. I doubt I'm right on all three, but this case has been mostly spot the town rather than find the scum, for me.

And I dont quite understand why picard is town. You were scumreading corpses until he replaced in. And he barely said anything.

[Whatisswag]

Shoot, I mixed up my replacements. Wait for a while...

[Whatisswag]

Ok.

Cptpicard is ILF replacement.
Mala is awesome replacement.
heartless is corpses replacement.
Titus is riddle replacement.

I need to refer to this more.

[Whatisswag]

LR, I want your reads.

[Lone Ranger]

Scum: GC.

[Heartless]

Big deal? Hardly. But it is worth noting that, in the process of analyzing my D1 votes, TTH ignores my D1 vote with the biggest back and forth attached to it. This is a weird defensive thing for you to jump on.

it's also worth noting that you're using rhetoric like "ignore" and "weirdly defensive" to make this weird omgusy read that's not really based on anything and doesn't really say anything

[Green Crayons]

You're defending TTH on something that doesn need defending. That's weird.

She ignored a big D1 vote of mine. I noted it in one sentence. You called that making it a big deal. That's weird and defensive.

Sorry bud.

[Green Crayons]

@swag:

dave is town. So something about your null and town is wrong.

You can keep saying this until you are blue in the face, but it doesn't make it true.

Give me something to work on other than your conclusory say so.

And I dont quite understand why picard is town. You were scumreading corpses until he replaced in. And he barely said anything.

Fairies was replaced by Picard. But, yes, I was finding Fairies suspicious in D1.

The reason why I find Picard solid town is because, after having an initial knee-jerk suspicion reaction to it, I can't fathom scum posting Post 831. It's too blatantly "hey look I'm town" for scum to hope that people would take it at face value, so scum would need to rely upon a too-scummy-of-a-lie-for-scum-to-post mindset - that is, everyone else would have to think that it's just too obvious of a scum ploy for it to be a scum ploy. That certainly does happen, but that type of double think was unnecessary in the context in which 831 is made. The simplest answer, then, is (likely) the correct one: 831 comes from town.

[Whatisswag]

I believe dave is town more than I think anyone else here is town or scum.

[elleheathen]

VOTE: Lone Ranger

[elleheathen]

elle, join me on swag. We can sort Grib tomorrow. Once everyone's producing content or lurking, it will become much easier for me to sort Snowvon.

Oh, make no mistake - I'm absolutely with you that he needs to die.
But there's still info I want from today.

Great so I'll try to stay out of your way. I tend to fuck up any sort of gambit by being too literal.

And because I can't contain my curiousity anymore...
Titus, what were you thinking with this?

[Titus]

@GC, Yes. Hypo claiming there is mason fishing. Someone says they recruited a scum, scum know they are not a mason OR said mason would not be believed in lylo. Second, scum shoot someone who liked Swag's plan. If they shot a mason, scum have an idea on who was recruited. Swag fishes on Kaboose to try and draw the last mason (or masons).

Swag's mislynch pool is dropping dramatically. I caught him as scum. Sad thing is no one believes me that I caught him. His reaction is textbook caught scum.

@LR, Your resonse to Swag indicates you have read the thread. That means you deliberately avoided giving content. You know I need reasons to read you with. Maybe time for some incentive.

VOTE: Lone Ranger


@Elle, I mean exactly what it says. I don't see how that's complicated.

[Heartless]

You're defending TTH on something that doesn need defending. That's weird.

She ignored a big D1 vote of mine. I noted it in one sentence. You called that making it a big deal. That's weird and defensive.

Sorry bud.

I just failed to put it in the list of votes because I forgot to. But as Anti said, it was a more of typographical mistake on my part than anything. I didn't ignore it, and that has a pretty inflammatory and accusatory meaning attached to it. You fully well know that.

That's

weird.