Mini 1643: World of Mafiacraft (End)

[TroubledTownie]

I basically want an explanation for the VC. Why are TT and Titus exacrly the same. If it is sheeping than what about each other that makes each other trustworthy( especially since this started in Day 1) Why did you both( Titus and TT )move off Mathblades when she seems to be your biggest scumread for day 1 and 2. I dont think that I am asking too much.

You can ask titus for her reasons for her vote, I've outlined mine for Math and shos multiple times. I've outlined shos' misreps of what I've said multiple times. Apparently titus agrees that shos has been throwing crap, and if you agree, you should be voting for shos too.

I moved off of mathblade because another possibility showed up, and the math wagon didn't look like it was going anywhere. My read of math hasn't changed much.

[TroubledTownie]

my case on TT, in a nutshell can be something like attacking the lowest hanging fruit as a piniata. I haven't seen him attack anyone that isn't me or PM the entire last 40 pages. basically, it's like the 40 pages we weren't here weren't there. he keeps saying that is false but all he points out is to before that. Since then, his push against me has just been making me feel better with my read. and I'm not one to go OMGUS.

I never pushed pm as scum, so quit with linking you two together. I've already corrected you on that several times(and you've ignored them all)

Yes, I've been focusing on you since you started your lame dung-throwing against me, because your play has gotten more and more scummy. Your allegations that I was only focusing on mollie earlier, have been proven false. Once again, you ignore the points that have been proven wrong, and try a new tactic.

[TroubledTownie]

Honestly I disagree with Shos reasoning if he voted for TT based on TT push on Molly. This is bad reasoning but I do not nessarilly see this coming from a scum POV.From my view it seems like everything is coming from a frustrated town POV. If you can show me where I am wrong than I will be wiling to listen.

Alright, you disagree with shos' initial reason for voting me. Let's look at everything else:

shos accused me of only attacking those who scumread me. I posted an overview of all the players I had pressured during the game, and only 1 of those times actually fit that allegation(shos). Shos ignored this.

shos started the game with completely naked reads, and even after I challenged him to explain them. Shos ignored this.

shos accused me of only pressuring mollie, and trying to pass that off as scumhunting. I corrected him on that as well, I was very active with other players during the same time. Shos ignored this.

Shos asked me about my other reads. I gave them. Shos ignored this, and later pressured me again as not having any other reads.

Shos repeatedly says I have been scumreading mollie. I never scumread mollie. I corrected him multiple times. Shos ignored this.

Shos accused me of misrepping him(didn't bother to say how or when), but I've been quoting him. I pointed that out, shos ignored this.

Shos accused me of trying to policy lynch mollie, because I said I would rather she contribute or replace than having to resort to a policy lynch.


Do you think there is real town motivation behind consistently making shit up, ignoring when it's been corrected, and making new shit up? Sincere townhunting doesn't work like that. If I accused you of only having OMGUS scumreads, and you replied showing me how only 1 of your scumreads had been scumreading you, I would acknowledge that. I would say something like 'Oh, my bad'. I wouldn't just ignore it and attack you from a new angle.

[shos]

TT, tying us together is precisely correct, because it was that way when you pressured mollie, and then she just disappeared and replaced out, so I was the only one left.

my point was that you ahve been focusing ONLY on me. during the time I was here, I don't remember you scumhunting anywhere else. it's the easy lynch, and it's the only lynch you've been pushing. I could go and find the first time you started calling me scum, and quote your "reasons" for that time, which obviously only built up when I kept ignoring you because I was busy/disagreed; but you're just playing like shit regardless of what I say, and your posts clearly show you have more time to spend here bickering, so I have no intent to do that.

go through my posts. see how much attention I brought to myself, and what I did that for. now think if scum would do that, and then, if by any chance you still think that yes, then think if scum ME would have done that. I have like 80% winrate as scum.


TLDR: bullshit

[shos]

Alright so ive been thonking in bed and i think this deserves the immediate phonepost.

Amount of time and effort invested by TT is way too much to be faked.
Im thinking scum should be on my wagon but less active. Of my wagobers, i remembet only titus but he is active iirc. Then thetes ozgin.

So I tbink my vote belongs eldewhete.
VOTE: ozgin

[TroubledTownie]

shos, if you're town, it's going to make me cry. You have to ignore the entire thread("You're only attacking people who scumread you"), or take the opposite of what I say(Please start posting real content or replace out if you can't get engaged = LETS POLICY LYNCH THIS LURKER!!!)... if you're town, you're lazy as hell to just make shit up instead of paying attention to what's actually happened.

I'm focusing on you because on a scale from 1-10, you're acting like an 11. There's no town motivation behind your pathetic attempts to paint me as scum.

"I just ignored your posts because I was busy(bull, you still had time for posting new shit about me every time I refuted the old shit), or disagreed(bull, if you're town, and you accuse me of scum because X, and I show how I've been not-X, then you would not ignore that)".

[kiwieagle]

zzzz
yeah this is not how I play sorry
Incoming tirade:


I am NO ONES BITCH CMON

unvote

VOTE: OZGIN

TITUS

take your manipulative shit elsewhere


OZGIN COME AT ME

You pussy you can't just "target someone else"
Thats now how BEING TOWN WORKS

IF YOU ARE TOWN AND THINK I AM SCUM YOU SHOULD NOT FEAR A CONFRONTATION
even though you saw the
"kiwi is making better points"
you shouldn't be like "damn I better stop before I get negative rep"

Yeah fuck this Ozgin is my vote
TT and Titus will call me scum but FUCK THAT BULLSHIT
I am not Ozgin the pacifist who tries to appease the others so as to avoid being lynched

TWICE he already has done actions to save his ass

Avoid fighting with me?
Thats not how it works

If we enter lylo its GG I AM NOT GOING TO LOSE LIKE THIS



(also prophet time: "OMG KIWI YOU SO EMOTIONAL... SCUM DERRR HURRRR")

[kiwieagle]

"kiwi where the fuck are your sources? waaaahhhh"
"stfu bitch"

Yes it does Ozgin is scum. And pretty damn sure you are scum as well for not seeing what was an obvious slip by Ozgin that he pretends to explain but can't. If I am going down Ozgin better be next but I'm doing my damndest to make sure either Ozgin or you are lynched. I'd prefer Ozgin as he scumslipped.

Ugh, I really don't want to take my vote off you, because you're just harping on a "scumslip" that doesn't exist. But I know I'm town, and I see how convicted kiwi is that I'm scum and how convicted you are and... Bah. I dunno.

I'm a vanilla townie, I'm going to die today probably. So fuck it.

Math is a scum.
Kiwi is town.
Titus... null.
TT town.
AP is lean scum.
shos is lean scum.

I can't think of anyone else. This game is giving me a headache, it fell to shit so quickly. I'm telling you the most truthful thing I can. If you assert that I'm scum after this post I'm switching my vote to you, Math, and if I get lynched everyone will understand everything. The mafia will probably still win, but I don't care. I'm laying down my cards. My kimono is open. Take it or leave it, but I know you're scum and I'm only voting shos for the sake of progress with the people I think are probably town.

@kiwi - My name is Ozgin, not Ozigin... I just noticed you've been saying Ozigin. It gave me a small chuckle in this swamp of frustration, and for that I thank you.

yada yada its one mislynch from lylo but I am going to sheep the shos wagon even though I don't think shes scum (next day: See I TOLD YOU GUYS! GIVE ME THAT LOVELY TOWN REP!)

@Ozgin -- I take it you're not a man of your word. It looks like you want a simple mislynch and when I didn't roll over and play dead.

I take it you're a moron.

Like I said, I'm only looking at shos because Titus and TT seem to really see something scummy in them, and not so much in you, so I won't be able to get much backing for a wagon on the real scum here (you).

"Well see shos flipped town and here I, OZGIN, CLEARLY SAID SHE WAS PROBABLY TOWN. Titus and TT scum? YEP!"

[kiwieagle]

But to be honest I'm pretty damn close to replacing out here because I don't give a shit anymore.

This sounds like a frustrated town. As much as I wanna peg you as scum, I can't because this describe almost exactly how I feel at this point.

I feel like there's just no fighting the mislynch on myself because you and kiwi are all but convinced that I'm scum, and it's frustrating as hell.

I just dunno how to do this game anymore, and it's killing me (literally).

These are my reads of the remaining players (excluding myself) as far as I know. I have no clue what's going on with piratemollie, if her slot is dead or replacing or what.

So in order of Townie-est to least townie-est

TroubledTownie - I think is almost 100% town. Active scumhunting, never has really given me a reason to read him as scum, always provides decent points to his arguments, etc. I agree a lot with his arguments against shos.

MathBlade - Until recently I've been 100% convinced she was scum, but I relate so strongly with her post about being fed up with this game and not making progress, it feels a lot like the same frustration I'm feeling as a town.

AP - Lean town, recent posts have led me to believe that they weren't necessarily lurking, just thrown off by the nature of the game and probably with some R/L distractions making strong play hard. I'm leaning town because of these latest few (fairly decent) posts.

TFL - I'm pretty null with TFL, and that makes me a little bit wary. I haven't interacted enough with TFL, and now I feel like they're lurking at this point and it's making me doubt them even more.

Titus - Lean scum. Something in my gut is making me want to feel like Titus' directing of mine and kiwi's fights are a little bit controlling, and perhaps Titus is masterminding a scum directive to run a mislynch on shos (or a good lynch on shos to secure trust in the remaining players). While I think shos is pretty scummy, I also think the way Titus is interacting with kiwi and I is a little bit like a scum manning the helm of this sinking ship.

kiwi - Somewhere between scum and lean scum. I really am having a hard time letting go of our past disputes, especially because I feel like every engagement with kiwieagle leads to an explosion of emotions (particularly anger) and it's a pretty good way to turn an argument into something really confusing and hard to read.

shos - Scum. I think TT literally hit the nail on the head with points against shos, and I agree that his posts are shallow and his arguments don't make much sense. shos seems to be responding to points with either "meh, whatevs" sort of posts, or by just raising a different argument against his accuser (primarily TT), but never really dispelling or shutting down standing arguments against him.

And the way that I've made these reads in my head (I'm at school and don't have time to comb the ISOs for examples), it's a readlist such that if I'm dead wrong about shos, if he's lynched and pops up town, then my reads will completely flip upside-down and that list would then be ordered scummiest to least scummy, because my reads are centralized around the conflict observed between TT and shos, and the middle stuff is more or less gut. TFL is null and will be that way until I get more content (or read ISOs). kiwi and Math will probably interchange on that list too if I'm wrong. The only person who I think would stay leaning town would be AP, but likewise I think Titus will stay leaning scum.

"please math get off the wagon, I think you are town <3"

[kiwieagle]

please get off my wagon^ *

[shos]

@TT: I was phoneposting from work, man. and i'm reminding you I haven't read pages 1-40.

[MathBlade]

V/LA today due to RL.

Lynch Ozgin please as IMO he is scum.

[shos]

I'm in for that one.

[TroubledTownie]

@TT: I was phoneposting from work, man.

So? irrelevant.

and i'm reminding you I haven't read pages 1-40.

Here's a problem. A huge problem.

Say I replace into a game at page 50, and I don't read the thread. Then I notice playerX scumreading playerY, and later playerY scumreading playerX.

If I'm town, I think to myself "hmmm, is that valid, or is it OMGUS? I wonder if he's done that before?" So, I pull up his ISO, see who else playerY has been attacking, and checking to see if they were scumreading him first. When I find that this isn't the case, I realize that's not a valid path to pursue, and drop it.

Where would the town motivation be in attacking playerY for 'only attacking those who scumread him', when I've only read 1/20th of the thread, and really have no idea whether or not that's right?

If I'm scum, and lazy, then I might just try and push that angle and see if it sticks.

Which motivation do you think was behind shos pushing me for exactly that reason, without bothering to check the thread to see if it even applied first?

[Titus]

V/LA today due to RL.

Lynch Ozgin please as IMO he is scum.

Bad. He is town.

[Titus]

please get off my wagon^ *

Kiwi, Ozgin's vote changed right after I highlighted Math's meta. Math despite being town will not vote scum.

I need you to vote shos today. We have to have all town agree but for Math because she refuses to vote scum.

[shos]

TT.
I'm sorry. but you'll have to accept that many people don't read up the entire thread when they replace into a game.
when I defended mollie that was while knowing your 'case' on her,because you literally spelled it out, so yeah, I assumed I didn't need to read for that.

Also take a look at titus' posts of late, tell me what you think.

[shos]

OH CRAP HOW DID I NOT SEE THIS

VOTE: TITUS

oh gawd

[AngryPidgeon]

@AngryPidgeon, please fucking vote. No more words without taking a stand.

I am voting.

vote out the scums based on something more than a slip and disagreement.

I dont see why you think Ozgin is town. And more worrisome, I dont see why you are snubbing a slip-case.

I like Kiwi push on me. I have been kinda lurking though it has been bc I have been kinda stuck. I don't see scum going after someone who is harder to lynch, I don't see me being likely lynched today. The push honestly feels like he suspects me for some reason.
I am thinking Kiwi might be town but I am not too terribly sure right now. His push on me seems to be from a town POV inho.

This is a ton of words but no real reason for them.

Deadline is in about 4 days I believe as I think deadlines are one week long...

Uhhh, why are you blatantly misrepping the DL with shos at L - 1?

[TroubledTownie]

TT.
I'm sorry. but you'll have to accept that many people don't read up the entire thread when they replace into a game.
when I defended mollie that was while knowing your 'case' on her,because you literally spelled it out, so yeah, I assumed I didn't need to read for that.

Also take a look at titus' posts of late, tell me what you think.

Yes, I get that, but that wasn't the point I was making. The point I was making was you pushing me as scum for a reason, without even bothering to check my ISO. There's no town motivation to do that. If I think you might have been consistently behaving in such a way, I'm going to pull your ISO and pull quotes, rather than just accusing you based off of the 2 pages I have read.

And I never had a 'case' on mollie. This is what, the 4th time I've corrected you? Mollie's play was anti-town, but I wasn't reading her as scum.

Titus seems to understand that we could have a pretty hard time getting a lynch today, and is trying to move town in that direction.

You've changed your vote, but not once...

not once

have you acknowledged when I have corrected you. Every. Single. Time. you've just ignored it.

[shos]

that's because I don't think you are correct. no point in arguing, and some of the responses by you were subjective, so then again, no point in arguing.

[TroubledTownie]

Lol, subjective. Yeah, it's real subjective whether or not I was pushing a policy lynch or trying to avoid one. Oh wait.

Yeah, it's real subjective whether or not kiwi was scumreading me before I scumread him. Oh wait.

Yeah, it's real subjective whether or not I called mollie scum. Oh wait.



You should run for office, you'd fit in pretty well.

[kiwieagle]

Wait you guys were talking about me?

[kiwieagle]

If your talking about the e-word fiasco that was dumb as fuck and shos is right about whatever claim against you she has concernimg that event

[shos]

*ignores*