Mini 1637- Pokemon Generation I uPick (Game Over)

[Bert]

Hello

[TierShift]

I first thought that formerfish might be the one scum I was looking for. In retrospect, I'm glad I didn't use my ability on him, because it would have been a waste. I thought formerfish slipped in 1545 where he said he knew scum took his vote away where he shouldn't have known that until vettrock's flip. I also thought vettrock's role PM stated that targets would be notified of losing their vote and that former was playing dumb, but upon reread I saw that that was another ability of his. I thought the taking away a vote from a partner might have been distancing. Later, I thought that it was perhaps obvious that scum took his vote away; taking away votes sounds like a scum ability. What made me think it wasn't former was how he played the vote losing; I'd expect him to make a big fuss about it and call himself town over it if his scumbuddy made him lose his vote. He didn't do that, so. Started looking at my next candidate for scum, boons.

[Bert]

Yeah FF kill narrows down a suspect for me.

I was thinking a lot about Pie and Tier along with FF last night. Well, I didn't think A LOT, I decided to think about it knowing day was approaching. Well, I thought about Seo a teeny bit too, but he isn't as scary.

[Bert]

Do you 'regret' the action you 'claim' to have taken?

[pieguyn]

That's how I felt about you and maybe formerfish. Weird NK, btw.

not really. even if you ignore the stuff related to Psychic, FF was basically confirmed town after vettrock flip bc of the fact vettrock destroyed his vote.

what happened to your magical town read on BBT that made you think I was "absolutely" town?

In my memory, you were very active in your townperiod and very inactive in your scumperiod (I culted pieguyn, ftr). Was that wrong?
Now that I think of it, you did lurk almostcas hard as I day 1....lol my memory.

it's not entirely wrong - I was active D2 and then started lurking again on D3 when you culted me. but yes, the point is that I basically did fuck all D1 of that game as town, and so you should know me doing the same this game is not a good reason for scum reading me

I've also demonstrated in my recent scum game that I can be active as scum, so how active I am is not an alignment tell either way. /shrug

the only thing I'm seeing that goes in your favor here is that what you're claiming matches the flavor to a T, and I'm speaking as someone who doesn't know the flavor and just looked it up 1 minute ago. however, I don't put any credence in that for obvious reasons. either way, I'll wait for mod/you to finish explaining your N3 thoughts

[Seohyun]

@_@

there's a few ways I can think of your action would have failed without you getting blocked. to name one off the top of my head, commutifier. I used Psychic last night, so it doesn't have anything to do with my role.

(incidentally, if I had decided not to confirm me/Seo having this ability, my other ability would have solved this immediately. -.-)

I don't have psychic
Maybe you misread the section of my mess up

[Bert]

6 now
Lynch
NK

4 to begin next day.

But, if Tier-scum, he may likely be lying about time of 'bomb' resolving.

[Bert]

If anything if he's scum, this buys him another day because everyone else assumes he's going to be suiciding with Pie.

[TierShift]

My boons story is going to be short. The start of his ISO looks very scum-motivated, but towards the end of his ISO he starts pushing the at that point completely impossible lynch pieguyn and defending possible lynch flames. It made me look towards you, pieguyn.

I looked at your game the previous day and it looked like you were just lurking your scum win out. You voted easy lynches (flames, for example) and did absolutely no effort to get in and change stuff. Vettrock sorted you into town super easily.

I started looking at BBT-notmaf interactions again and I didn't thnk BBT looked so town anymore. He mostly avoids giving a read on notmaf while notmaf is attacking him the whole time. That is weird, as you usually have a read on the people attacking you. He also didn't have a read on marquis...
I see notmaf as able to set up an elaborate bus to make his partner enjoy endgame as much as possible. In the end, it just clicked.

I'm still thinking you're the most likely scum, pie, but I appreciate the willingness to work together.

[TierShift]

No bert, we'd suicide

after

the mylo lynch.

[Flames682]

I'm thinking it's either Tier, Seo, or pie at this point.

[pieguyn]

I don't have psychic
Maybe you misread the section of my mess up

oh holy fuck

-.-

I completely derped and forgot about that. yay for me being dead weight this game

[TierShift]

Pie, can you please unvote? I don't feel comfortable being voted atm.
And I don't really care if you've demonstrated you CAN be active as scum. Afaik you still vastly prefer town and will be much more active as town, even if you avoided that behaviour for a single game.

[TierShift]

Seo, did you redirect my action?

[Flames682]

Leaning more to pie and Tier. Gonna look into them both later but what I remember about pie is the sudden vote on me without mentioning me ever before.

[pieguyn]

I looked at your game the previous day and it looked like you were just lurking your scum win out. You voted easy lynches (flames, for example) and did absolutely no effort to get in and change stuff. Vettrock sorted you into town super easily.

are you actually serious?

like, I literally wasn't here for a large part of the end of the last game day. I outright fucking declared a V/LA in the game thread. what exactly were you expecting me to do?

the reason I vote parked on Flames was exactly that - I was never in a position where I felt a strong need to change my vote, and on top of that I hadn't even fully read the stuff about the tracker claim. I literally fucking said at the end of the game day I'd just sheep whatever wagon was likely to go through, which included the vettrock wagon.

none of this makes sense unless you're going to argue that I'm scum pretending to be behind when I'm not. regardless, how exactly do you think me soft bussing vettrock makes sense from a "scum lurking the game out" POV? you don't fucking encourage everyone to lynch your partner if you're trying to lurk the game out.

[pieguyn]

Leaning more to pie and Tier. Gonna look into them both later but what I remember about pie is the sudden vote on me without mentioning me ever before.

as I said, POE

and as I also said, I alluded to just sheeping whatever wagon was likely to go through at deadline. and fwiw, I was planning on voting vettrock if the day didn't end before I got back after my last D3 post. I realize you only have my word to go on, but make it what you will.

if you want me to walk you through why I think TS's play yesterday was scummy, or explain anything else I did, I'm more than willing to

[Seohyun]

Seo, did you redirect my action?

Actually, I did. But it doesn't matter because I redirected it to.....pieguyn.

[pieguyn]

And I don't really care if you've demonstrated you CAN be active as scum. Afaik you still vastly prefer town and will be much more active as town, even if you avoided that behaviour for a single game.

that was more a tangent than my actual point

you're claiming I "will be much more active as town", when you've seen evidence that directly contradicts that. and you claim you didn't remember it, but you have now and are still pushing it anyway. /shrug

[TierShift]

@Seo...loool

@Pieguyn: I don't care about soft bussing or hard bussing or self-meta or whatever shit. You were in a golden position yesterday, with no one but boon even suspecting you and majority calling you close to confirmed town, with easy lynches in me and boon or fish. You had the towncred to completely lurk it out and not give a shit anymore. Yes, you could have bussed harder. No, it would probably not have mattered a whole lot. Everyone hard busses these days.

[TierShift]

Pie: You are generally more active as town than as scum. A single scum game doesn't change that. Sample sizes, bruh. Don't be dense.

[pieguyn]

@Pieguyn: I don't care about soft bussing or hard bussing or self-meta or whatever shit. You were in a golden position yesterday, with no one but boon even suspecting you and majority calling you close to confirmed town, with easy lynches in me and boon or fish. You had the towncred to completely lurk it out and not give a shit anymore. Yes, you could have bussed harder. No, it would probably not have mattered a whole lot. Everyone hard busses these days.

you're completely ignoring my point

you know what it _doesn't_ make any fucking sense to do when you're in a good position as scum? start bussing one of your partners for no reason. and your idea of site meta can fuck off - town reading partners is, and will always be, stronger than blindly bussing partners with no strategic value - so saying "lol, everyone busses" is not a good counterargument and completely ignores the point I am making.

this is even more so the case when I initially came in calling Marquis/vettrock-slot town. if I was scum trying to coast, exactly what benefit did I have for sometime later going "no wait, Marquis actually might have been scum"? there wasn't any pressure on vettrock at that point save a few scum reads here and there - I could easily have continued shutting down the possibility of a wagon on him. especially when if you choose not to bus, you literally need all 5 town votes to get a scum lynch.

these are the kinds of things I'd expect a town player to think about if they were legitimately attempting to form a read here

[pieguyn]

Pie: You are generally more active as town than as scum. A single scum game doesn't change that. Sample sizes, bruh. Don't be dense.

you are, again, completely ignoring my point

am I usually active as town? yes. am I also capable of not being invested in the game and generally being an apathetic fuck as town? also yes. and you know this.

soooooooo

[TierShift]

I did think about this. You could have tried to keep your buddy in at first, but when you saw he was going down you could have flipped your read, as to not get scrutinised too much if he would flip scum at some point (that dayphase, or this one). Hard bussing wouldn't have made much sense at that point.

It's perhaps not the most plausible of courses, but it's definitely a possible one and not implausible enough t make me reconsider my read.

And don't think I'm trying to convince you that you're scum or something, I'm purely explaining my thought process. I'm not really thinking you're scum anymore, but barring some extreme night actions, a mod error has occurred and shit will happen soon enough.

Something I'm thinking about if there isn't a mod error is a global 1-shot delayer, seeing flames didn't get a result.

[TierShift]

Look, pieguy, scumtells are something you are more likely to do as scum than as town. You lurk more often as scum than as town, so it's a scumtell for you. It's not something that makes you 100% scum, but it's a piece of the puzzle.

Let's say you had 10 scumtells and every single one would heighten the chance that you are scum with 10%. Would I lynch you for having one scumtell (lurking)? No. Would I poont it out and say it'd make you more likelyto be scum? Yes.