White Flag Mafia [TM2015] (Game Over)

[Equinox]

Vote Count 1.12

theelkspeaks (4) - Regfan, Aeronaut, Zachrulez, Oversoul
Cheery Dog (3) - Cogito Ergo Sum, Llamarble, Psyche
Llamarble (2) - Ankamius, BlueBloodedToffee
Psyche (2) - Antihero, theelkspeaks

Not Voting (2) - ika, Cheery Dog

With 13 alive, it will take 7 to lynch.

The deadline is Monday, April 13, 2015, at 9:00 PM EDT (UTC-4), which is in (expired on 2015-04-13 21:00:00).

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Just noticed I've got a note from a little birdie that you may have used a scum token in this game, want to weigh in on that at all for me?

No alignment tokens for me. Like Oversoul, I haven't played a forum game in over 10 months and at the end then I was just playing badly as town and not drawing any scum roles. So part of me wanted to draw a scum role for the first time in ages and part of me wanted to draw a town role to get a chance to rekindle my town spark by reliving my finest hour. But then I was also pretty sure too I could quite easily screw up either as scum or town. I wasn't going to spend an alignment token when I didn't have a clear preference and if in doing so I would feel responsible for that choice.

Also any of your team following this game at all - if so would like to hear a bit of their discussion and thoughts on it - especially if there's anything on any of Oversoul/Psyche/Anak.

I remember Patrick saying some things about our game in our skype chat at some point but I've mostly forgotten what he said. Both Channel and Fenchurch haven't read my game at all.

[Regfan]

BBT, I don't think Llama and my play is as different as you're suggesting it is, a lot of your points can be easily attributed to me if you think they're scum-tells and he has objectively stated reads that don't involve tokens and are based of play now so I think your scum-read on him should really be reassessed.

Oversoul, I'm cool waiting till this weekend (I have Sat/Sun off work so I'll likely be doing a mass-reread of the game then myself) and I'd like anything your team mates have said about this game, really anything at all will suffice.

PEdit: CES, did you use a token to determine your games then?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Yarr. Obviously.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

BBT, I don't think Llama and my play is as different as you're suggesting it is, a lot of your points can be easily attributed to me if you think they're scum-tells and he has objectively stated reads that don't involve tokens and are based of play now so I think your scum-read on him should really be reassessed.

Oversoul, I'm cool waiting till this weekend (I have Sat/Sun off work so I'll likely be doing a mass-reread of the game then myself) and I'd like anything your team mates have said about this game, really anything at all will suffice.

PEdit: CES, did you use a token to determine your games then?

Simple question for you;

Is your scum read on Elk based on token usage?

[Regfan]

Is your scum read on Elk based on token usage?

Yes.

No.

I still think you're misunderstanding, say Llama has no one that he's "confident" that is scum (Which is the case here) but has several town reads and knows that person X statistically has a higher probability of being mafia then voting X makes sense for now. If he was pushing for a lynch right his moment on X for that reasoning alone then maybe you'd have a point but pressuring and throwing a vote there isn't an issue whatsoever. Can already tell this is probably a dumb discussion to continue since you're not going to change your mind here despite several of us telling you him using/considering them isn't a scum-tell.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I still think you're misunderstanding, say Llama has no one that he's "confident" that is scum (Which is the case here)

If he can't find someone he thinks is scum when we have 13 players alive then that's just another reason to lynch him.

[Cheery Dog]

Top scum-reads right now are Oversoul, Zach and Llama.

So you're going to bug someone else for reasons after being asked for reads without reasons about giving reasons, but not give any yourself?

I don't believe it will be particularly difficult to find why I am scum-reading each of those players.

Little homework task for you to do.

Go.

So it's that you consider them anti-town?
Well I guess you kind of made a reason on Oversoul, but I'm not seeing it as a strong point.

Motivation required there.

[Cheery Dog]

I still think you're misunderstanding, say Llama has no one that he's "confident" that is scum (Which is the case here)

If he can't find someone he thinks is scum when we have 13 players alive then that's just another reason to lynch him.

Logic does not compute.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Good try.

D for Effort and C for results.

Try again.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

^^ Was for 307.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Logic does not compute.

If he isn't a good scum-hunter as town, with the addition that I'm already scum-reading him, he would be a fantastic lynch.

[Zachrulez]

No we're not policy lynching someone because you don't like the way they play.

And yeah, I'm making a pretty hard statement on that because I don't think Llamarble is scum.

[Zachrulez]

It's part of the reason, yes. It's not the sole reason. P much where he's at is that he has a bunch of town reads and therefore is hunting via PoE (He doesn't have a strong scum-read and when he does he'll make it apparent) and there's nothing that he finds town of CDs himself so he's content to vote there. I know you're not a fan of meta but you're going to have to learn to accept that Llama taking statistics indicators of alignment such as tokens into account and hunting via PoE is how he plays, there's several of us that have brought this up too so at least trust me for now that Llamas not where you should be spending your time pushing. Also I wanted your read on Elk "bar the wagon speed" which I explained is a shitty reason to town-read him especially given his Psyche vote.

It's the base of his read. He wouldn't have a scum-read on CD had it not been for the initial token discussion. Also, voting scum via PoE on D1 is disgusting.

It's nothing to do with meta. Set-up spec (token spec) is scummy.

I gave you my read on Elk; I'm not town-reading him as you seem to be implying. His wagon was too quick, it's got people I am scum-reading on it so I want no part of it.

PoE is not scummy

Token spec is not scummy.

You should consider those two things and rethink your positions.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You're making a hard statement against something that hasn't been suggested?

That's just fantastic.

[Zachrulez]

Anyway where did elk go?

Was greeted to like 3 new pages today and elk isn't in any of them.

[Zachrulez]

You're making a hard statement against something that hasn't been suggested?

That's just fantastic.

In 311 you suggest lynching Llamarble for being a terrible scum hunter which is a policy based reason in my eyes.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Wrong.

That was an

additional

reason to lynch him on top of my scum read.

Nice misrep. Try harder.

[Zachrulez]

Ok.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why aren't we lynching this? ^^^

[Zachrulez]

Because you don't have the votes and you probably never will.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That's a bold statement.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Yarr. Zach is going to live forever.

[Llamarble]

You're right, reads can be based on shitty reasoning. But, I don't want the basis of those reads to be on tokens, I don't particularly want tokens to influence reads in any way, shape or form. Llamarble's reads-list pinged me because it was based around token speculation instead of actual scum-hunting.

I really like winning, so I don't ignore game mechanics. If you want to be a scumhunting purist and ignore what the setup / roles tell you, fine, but it will be hard for you to get a really high town winrate. Also about half my posts, including the reads list you found so offensive, include behavioral reads with explanations. Other posts include behavioral reads I did not bother to explain at the time. I have also provided behavioral discussion of both Regfan and Cheery. Claiming I am basing my play solely on tokens / am not scumhunting is so obviously wrong it's hard to understand how you got there.

258 - More self-meta, Llama. I'd lynch you for this alone. 'Hey look, I can't be scum because I can hand select games that show you I've done this exact same thing as town so therefore I must be town.'

That's also pretty good meta if you're scum, right? You can change direction with your reads whenever you feel like it. Nah. That shit will get you lynched.

I think I actually did get mislynched for being utterly insufferable once. I had just led 2 scumlynches in a 3 scum game, so I figured I was pretty safe, but the player I was expecting to play the role Regfan is playing here (Fate) was actually the last scum and surprised me. My only two other mislynches were the time I literally got bussed by town (I was role-confirmed town to Fate but he needed to prevent the scum from NKing him so he drove my lynch), and a time when a townie roleblocked me on a night with a no-kill. Anyway, I frequently get a player or two who is just so annoyed by how I play the game that they vote me even though it's probably obvious even to them that I'm town.

If he isn't a good scum-hunter as town, with the addition that I'm already scum-reading him, he would be a fantastic lynch.

Fortunately I'm a Paragon. Lolz.

[Psyche]

Oh, Fate.