White Flag Mafia [TM2015] (Game Over)

[Equinox]

Vote Count 2.07

Cogito Ergo Sum (4) - Tammy, Ankamius, ika, Antihero
Ankamius (2) - Zachrulez, Cogito Ergo Sum
ika (2) - BlueBloodedToffee, theelkspeaks
Cheery Dog (1) - Regfan
Regfan (1) - Cheery Dog

Not Voting (1) - Psyche

With 11 alive, it will take 6 to lynch.

The deadline is Saturday, April 25, 2015, at 4:30 PM EDT (UTC-4), which is in (expired on 2015-04-25 16:30:00).

Moderator Comments

Tammy is V/LA until April 20.

[Ankamius]

Tammy, while you're here; same question.

[Ankamius]

Unfortunate pagetop is unfortunate.

Tammy: Go look at CES' ISO and tell me what you think about how he speaks to/about CD and me.

[Tammy]

Not exactly sure what you're adking me ank.

Regfan - what makes this game any different than any other game where you're in a different time come and have to play catch up?

[Tammy]

*time zone

[Tammy]

UNVOTE:

Get to this later.

[Ankamius]

I'm asking you what you think about CES when you look at how he speaks to and about both Cheery Dog and me, especially how they compare to his reads.

[Regfan]

Ank, I'll reread CES later tonight; if you could bullet point your case on him in the meantime would be very much appreciated.

Regfan - what makes this game any different than any other game where you're in a different time come and have to play catch up?

Got promoted a few months back which has meant that I'm now no longer able to check the site at work/american day time other than in my 5 minute breaks ect. which isn't enough time to catch up or post, means that I only have from when I get home (7PM my time or later generally depending on my shift at the time) when no one else is generally awake or online which stopped me from playing mafia altogether until this TM. Fact that this is TM also means I have to try and keep up with other games as well as interact as much as I can with three team-mates who live on the other side of the world certainly doesn't help.

[Tammy]

Yay for your promotion.

Also, taxes, fuck. I forgot.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

The Ika-BBT interaction are really starting to piss me off, fairly sure you're both town here, you're both not helping anyone by taking snide little comments towards the other person and you're making the thread a) More frustrating to read and b) More inflated making it harder for players/teams to keep up with. Quit it out, please or if you're really convinced the other is scum (You'd very likely be wrong) then make a big case post on it rather than having one line back and forths.

I'm beginning to see that nobody is going to listen to me about ika. I'm also sick of Titus screaming at me in PT now so whatever.

UNVOTE:

[BlueBloodedToffee]

CES, can you walk me through your Aero scum read late D1?

I don't see much in your ISO. What I do see is you pushing CD and Ank pretty much exclusively and then jumping on the Aero wagon to 'end the Day.'

Also, I'm pretty happy to lynch Psyche if anyone is interested in that. Done the exact same as ika the whole game so far; nothing.

[Psyche]

that's not true
and i'll be around soon promise

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Top 3 scum reads Psyche?

[Ankamius]

Bullet point case will have to wait a while.

The main gist I'm getting at is that CES is much more dismissive and aggressive against me and a lot more calm and inquisitive against Cheery Dog throughout the game, yet apparently Cheery Dog was a stronger scumspect until very recently.

It all indicates to me that either he's scum with CD and willing to keep the option of finding a way out of his read open (watch, if somehow I get lynched, he'll weasel out of it somehow), or he found a juicy set people to mislynch and thought CD was the least threatening person.

The dissonance doesn't make sense to me.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I don't think I've been that dismissive of you, Ank. A lot of your play just feels unconnected to the game and I'm going to point that out when I see it. I did the same when Cheery Dog placed his ikavote.

CES, can you walk me through your Aero scum read late D1?

The main thing was just his lack of scumhunting. It is still the #1 scum tell for a reason. The SvT thing also felt a bit like scum getting his hand caught in the cookie jar (in a way that was consistent with the previous point).

But I was suspicious of Aero well before I became suspicious of Ank. I wanted to keep Day 1 going, keeping Regfan and' marble alive, until I felt there was a clear path to victory and the Anksuspicion made me feel that there was. There just wasn't that much to say about Aero late D1 because he wasn't posting.

Anti, I'll respond to your post when I get home from the meet on Friday and I'm no longer limited to this ipad.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

But I was suspicious of Aero well before I became suspicious of Ank. I wanted to keep Day 1 going, keeping Regfan and' marble alive, until I felt there was a clear path to victory and the Anksuspicion made me feel that there was.

Anti, I'll respond to your post when I get home from the meet on Friday and I'm no longer limited to this ipad.

I don't think you were suspicious of Aero before Ank.

In 145, you mention that you think CD's buddies are in Ank/elk/ika. I don't see any mention of Aero before this post.

Your first mention of Aero is in 217 and that's regarding Regfan's case on Aero in which you reply with "

I don't think it's that convincing at this stage

". I'm not sure that comment is strong enough to state this is where your scum read on Aero began either as you seem to agree with Regfan whilst dismissing it at the same time.

428 seems to be where your scum read on Aero started. After this, you start pushing CD and Ank...and then vote Aero. It doesn't make sense and the vote looks pretty opportunistic.

[Cheery Dog]

We have a large scumread on regfan.

This post triggered the need for the vote to be laid down, as it's just an excuse to lay away from the awful case that was there yesterday. (awful case being from my Post 462 where I called it out, although Gamma also didn't like the comment about elk that I said was fine). That post then goes about that something else should have been down instead of the aeronaut lynch, aka my lynch, aka a different townie dying earlier. My flip is not going top have changed the matters. I still fully expect to have been lynched before lylo because of the whole token thing - which is always worth considering.

Don't like nor can I follow any of this at all, doesn't read even remotely genuine (Nor does the fact that you have "team reads" that are severely outdated that weren't brought into the thread when they were "given" to you - looks more like a "Lookie here, I can fake having had team reads" to seem town). Still think the fact that Aero avoided commenting on anything really game-related other than the fact that he was being FoS'ed to be a massive massive scum-tell. Only thing I'm annoyed at is that it's now twice in a row (Last TM I forced through a lynch on Amrun who was the sole town player in my scum pool instead of joining CES and co elsewhere on actual scum) that I've been wrong and I hate being wrong, really really do.

I ignored being them earlier because they didn't feel worth it back then, and I'm not really sure they were worth having them here now, but I was bringing some up now, because I was happening to agree with the reasoning behind them, so I felt I may as well put the others in. It was also the first I'd had time for the Ank read from Gamma - the psyche and stuff could have been earlier.

I also don't really expect you to follow, you're not required to vote yourself for being scummy by excusing poor "egotistical" play from yesterday.

Cheery Dog, Regfan is not getting lynched unless he keeps living without winning us the game. He's not close to being a lynch option yet.
What's the basis of that read anyway? Just that one (genuine-sounding) post?

Can we just lynch Ank today? He is so scummy.

Who you say is getting lynched or not lynched doesn't concern my vote placement. The fact Aero flipped town and have gut feelings about the chances of other people also flipping town regardless of them looking bad, I think we need to start looking at lynching the stronger players to find our scum.

Well either ika's improved or I've just stopped caring about him, could still lynch psyche, and I'm just not sure on Ank actually being a good lynch either.

I'm already calling the burden of proficiency on regfan, who cares about waiting. He wasn't obvtown enough to me yesterday to be considered town, and with his start today, it's just gotten worse.

[Cheery Dog]

Reading futher, I'm fairly sure I have just switched ignore mode on ika, that pg31 interchange with BBT was bloody horrible to read.

Regfan, you must be able to see that 726 is a town-looking post. Can we just lynch Ank today? He is so scummy.

The issue I have with it was the lack of reads/stances from him, really really needed that, starting to see it in Post 772 and Post 784 and Post 786 and feel much better about him being town due to them, the first and third reading the most genuine. Also you're not reading CD's whole "my teams old ancient reads exist and are x/y/z" as a huge scum-tell and something that reads as faked (If they were legit he'd have mentioned them earlier). Still have a few reservations on Ank but I'm willing to concede that my town read that I had on him is completely dead and I may have been wrong there.

There's somewhere in my iso where I questioned asking for someone's teamate (I think someone wanted gif's opinion from ika) about why that was the case.
Also how I reacted to losing beer pong during the reckoning (not that any of you were there, but I went and blamed my brother on it)

What this means is I probably shouldn't be playing team mafia, as I'm not exactly a good team player - and therefore the reads will come late.
They were posted in the stuff to paraphase so you could follow gamma's mind through the game, and I tend to ignore stuff I can't work out how to phrase into my own typed language version.

[Regfan]

Reading the above two posts as p genuine, specifically the "I'm not a good team player" admission behind not outing team-reads and while it's super annoying and wrong I don't think he'd be attempting to use BoP on me at this point as scum especially when it's p fucking obvious that I'm not going to be mslynched here, think he'd instead be focusing on pushing someone that would have a legit chance of being lynched over him. STILL want reads and thoughts in more depth from him but really not feeling good about my vote on him anymore and think I need to step back here.

Unvote

CD, if there are any other thoughts your team have left you inside your PT (Either in the past or from now on) I'd like them posted in the thread, I don't care if they're not "phrased perfectly". Also would like links whatever games you're comparing me not being as 'obvtown' to since I don't actually remember playing with you at all? outside of marathon games which I play rather differently entirely.

The main gist I'm getting at is that CES is much more dismissive and aggressive against me and a lot more calm and inquisitive against Cheery Dog throughout the game, yet apparently Cheery Dog was a stronger scumspect until very recently.

I don't really agree with this being the case, the only posts I think he's like that with you in is Post 475 and maybe Post 653 and even then I don't read that as a scum-tell given that I was also annoyed by stalling of the day at that point. Gone over his ISO several, several times now and I'm still flat out not seeing the scum-read on him, don't get me wrong he's not in my 'ubertownbetthegameonthem' pile but I'm not seeing what others are here.

@BBT; Re; Psyche in Post 835 it's certainly something I'm considering right now. Want to check with my team first to make sure they also read CD's recent stuff as more genuine/town and then do a meta check on Psyche but that's probably where I'll be throwing down a vote, don't like him popping in every time he's mentioned promising content and reads 'later' and 'soon' without any follow through whatsoever like in Post 836. Also still think his team-mates comments re; the wagon yesterday and him using them as reasoning is a scum-tell too.

[Antihero]

Gone into it a few times already, it's a very weak town read but it's based of finding the tone on how he's referencing his past town games and how he wants to improve on that via winning this one as genuine examples of what I'm talking about are in Post 49, Post 384 and Post 494. I also liked his request of getting a feel for everyones scum competencies towards Empire in Post 147 and then towards Cadb in Post 164 and again in Post 383. His reads and thoughts mirrored mine for majority of the day (With the main exception being his Ank read) which I find to be a hard town tell for scum to fake convincingly.

null null null null null null null null

and more null

"mirroring my thoughts" is an unreliable towntell and depends on your reads being accurate and it's trap you seem to have fallen in. one that you should've snapped out of as soon as aero flipped town.

[Antihero]

The main thing was just his lack of scumhunting. It is still the #1 scum tell for a reason. The SvT thing also felt a bit like scum getting his hand caught in the cookie jar (in a way that was consistent with the previous point).

But I was suspicious of Aero well before I became suspicious of Ank. I wanted to keep Day 1 going, keeping Regfan and' marble alive, until I felt there was a clear path to victory and the Anksuspicion made me feel that there was. There just wasn't that much to say about Aero late D1 because he wasn't posting.

weak.

also, as bbt pointed out, this is constructing an alternate history that's not borne out by the posting itself

[ika]

i honeslty at this point want to lynch CES/CD and if the game isnt over from there (cus right now im gutting on 1/both bgin scums)

[Cheery Dog]

Reading the above two posts as p genuine, specifically the "I'm not a good team player" admission behind not outing team-reads and while it's super annoying and wrong I don't think he'd be attempting to use BoP on me at this point as scum especially when it's p fucking obvious that I'm not going to be mslynched here, think he'd instead be focusing on pushing someone that would have a legit chance of being lynched over him. STILL want reads and thoughts in more depth from him but really not feeling good about my vote on him anymore and think I need to step back here.

Unvote

CD, if there are any other thoughts your team have left you inside your PT (Either in the past or from now on) I'd like them posted in the thread, I don't care if they're not "phrased perfectly". Also would like links whatever games you're comparing me not being as 'obvtown' to since I don't actually remember playing with you at all? outside of marathon games which I play rather differently entirely.

The main gist I'm getting at is that CES is much more dismissive and aggressive against me and a lot more calm and inquisitive against Cheery Dog throughout the game, yet apparently Cheery Dog was a stronger scumspect until very recently.

I don't really agree with this being the case, the only posts I think he's like that with you in is Post 475 and maybe Post 653 and even then I don't read that as a scum-tell given that I was also annoyed by stalling of the day at that point. Gone over his ISO several, several times now and I'm still flat out not seeing the scum-read on him, don't get me wrong he's not in my 'ubertownbetthegameonthem' pile but I'm not seeing what others are here.

@BBT; Re; Psyche in Post 835 it's certainly something I'm considering right now. Want to check with my team first to make sure they also read CD's recent stuff as more genuine/town and then do a meta check on Psyche but that's probably where I'll be throwing down a vote, don't like him popping in every time he's mentioned promising content and reads 'later' and 'soon' without any follow through whatsoever like in Post 836. Also still think his team-mates comments re; the wagon yesterday and him using them as reasoning is a scum-tell too.

I think they did all post them, unless I skipped the llama-town based around his comment of me being 'netural at worse'.

I don't have any games I've based it on exactly, and it's probably only been in random games I've read that I've noticed anything (I think I read a few of my brothers games that you were in - but they're all old and I won't remember anything from them), so it's probably what I expect upon hearing your name, and it could be a false feeling. Gamma feels certain with that post I quoted anyway.

I don't actually know the level of obvtown I was expecting, and for all I know in comparison I could be wanting you to high jump over the pole vault.

[Tammy]

Ank, I'll reread CES later tonight; if you could bullet point your case on him in the meantime would be very much appreciated.

Regfan - what makes this game any different than any other game where you're in a different time come and have to play catch up?

Got promoted a few months back which has meant that I'm now no longer able to check the site at work/american day time other than in my 5 minute breaks ect. which isn't enough time to catch up or post, means that I only have from when I get home (7PM my time or later generally depending on my shift at the time) when no one else is generally awake or online which stopped me from playing mafia altogether until this TM. Fact that this is TM also means I have to try and keep up with other games as well as interact as much as I can with three team-mates who live on the other side of the world certainly doesn't help.

But this has pretty much always been your play style though. I always think of you as the come in at weird times with catch up thoughts and posing questions but not in real time interacting with people.

Why do you think you'd be less obvtown due to it (and didn't you think you were?)

Sorry if that sounds disjointed, I'm 12.5 hours away from my defense at this point and am going to pass out.

Ank - I will look back at what you asked me at some point. CES is still a suspect; I just didn't want him hammered before I could catch up with the game. Okay sleeping pill kicking in. Wish me luck!

[Equinox]

Bump.