White Flag Mafia [TM2015] (Game Over)

[Tammy]

But to clarify, though I can't imagine you'd have those questions when reading the thread. I've been reading this game since the start. I'm on Oversoul's team and switched with Oversoul. I obviously was reading the game because Oversoul gave my reads in Post 408. There's been talk about me switching the game and what that means for my alignment. I'm not sure where you got that I only read iso's because I clearly read the game; I was double checking isos.

How was any of that unclear?

[Tammy]

Drink suckers.

[Zachrulez]

Catching-up episode cubic root 216

Spoiler:

(1) Antihero, 810 –

"THAT'S classic scum ika."

– Can you give me some details?

(2) Ika, 812 – Oh, this, including the readlist! (Re-formatted by me)

"i havent been really reading the game gif and i agree that CES is scum though –– other then that everything else is meh (im drunk also atm but soering and tired so im streamline mode) –– your town

(he meant Ankamius)[/i] –– anti prob town –– phyce could be scum –– reg might be town –– elk prob scum –– everyone else i dont really care to sort or even see if they exist right now"[/i] – I don't really get it. Where these GIF's reads? Why is BBT not on the list? What's that Elk-read coming out of ...nowhere?

(3) Tammy's 813 –

"I would have bet money on marble being the nightkill last night. "

But she got into this game later... Tammy, had you been reading this game frequently before you arrived?

(4) Meta-based reads from Regfan, 814. Both CES and BBT were hard townread by him here. I only mention it because I saw in his latest post that CES was weak-town and BBT undecided. I want to see his read progression in his later posts. Regfan, was it 1089?

(5) Tammy, 819 – where did this CES scumread come from?

(6) Ankamius, 824 and nearby – I know it's a minor thing in itself, but he wanted Regfan and Tammy to check CES's

ISO

how he speaks about him and CheeryDog. If he really wanted to get an answer, why didn't he link some posts about the topic? It looks as if he had tried to make it harder for them to answer his question. Aaand he answers his own question (if I'm reading the thread right) in 838, without references. Pigeon poop.

(7) CheeryDog, 841

"The fact Aero flipped town and have gut feelings about the chances of other people also flipping town regardless of them looking bad, I think we need to start looking at lynching the stronger players to find our scum."

– That doesn't make much sense. Especially if I read that part of the post further.

(8) Ika, 841

"i honeslty at this point want to lynch CES/CD and if the game isnt over from there (cus right now im gutting on 1/both bgin scums)"

– and this clearly contradicts (2) (where did the Elk read go?) and the whole interaction with BBT. (I've just had an intuition that he didn't push BBT because if BBT flipped town after his push, he would be in a very bad situation.)

(9) BBT, 872 to Ika:

"If you end up flipping scum in this game, I fucking promise you I will push for your lynch every single game we play."

– Because of these sentences I don't think BBT's scum. I think I've read similar sentences before when he was scumreading me. As for Tammy's reaction, 874, do you have the same experience, Tammy?

(10) ... [I wanted to post something that just came into my mind but I got IRL distracted and when I returned to the screen I forgot it. So, it's just a reminder for myself. The chat was opened about the post 878. Aaaaand here comes the kitty again!]

Intermission.
I know it's irrelevant but I think you're gonna love this story.
On my right, my Sweetheart is slumbering. On my left, our kitty. Both of them wants to get stroked. When my Sweetheart wants me to stroke her back, my kitty wants the same, obviously. And when my Sweetheart asks me for stroking her hair, the kitty meows and wants his head to get stroked too.
They're even mirroring each other as they're lying in a similar pose.

(11) And now the whole Ika/BBT interaction changed into something else! Am I too paranoid about this? After all, it seems to be stopped as soon as others started posting again.

(12) On these pages (36–37) the game seems to get stalled. Could this be the case of Aneninen#Unexpected_Gamestall? If so, Wgeurts may be right about CES and I may be wrong.

(13) On the other hand, CES's 945 –

"A friendly reminder to the people on the wagon that you're sharing it with this scumbag. One slot in my scumlist being town does make the rest more likely scum. That's how probability works. I'm not going to suddenly stop trusting my scumhunting process; being wrong occasionally is just part of the game."

– is scummy. It looks as if he had run out of new reasons. On the other hand, he's scumreading Ankamius and I too think he's scum. And his vote is there. Would scums bus in this Setup on Day2? Can someone answer this? And in 954 (answering Ika) – what if he's building up a mislynch here?

(14) Ika, naked vote for BBT in 968. It seems to be inorganic after his discussion with CES. (Could CES/Ika/Ankamius be scums together? If so, bussing is involved.) 972 is not a good reason. Because of the site rules I'm not allowed to explain, why. By the way, Ika, 987: if it disturbs you that this game is PR-less, why did you choose this game?

(15) Tammy, 984 – so, do you think that the whole Ika/BBT was a town-vs-town?

(I arrived at this point, but still need to see the posts I've missed so far.)

(16) BBT, 994 – Elk posted before that they needed to work on the team replacements. Do you think that Ika's 987 was AtE? I think it was simply contentless.

(17) CheeryDog, 1001 – did I missed something or is this that team-scumread on Regfan?

(18) Ankamius, 1005 – ...and I remember that I made a link-list like this in another game... as scum.

(19) Tammy, 1017 – if I assume that you ISO everyone instead of reading the pages, am I right?

(20) CheeryDog, 1018 – Wait-oh, weren't you scumreading Regfan? Did you just jump on the biggest wagon?

(21) Zach, 1029 – Good question! (Although it might have been a result of a token speculation somewhere else)

(22) CES, 1041 (and some related posts) – am I the only one who doesn't understand that CES and CheeryDog are talking about Cheery's Regfan-read while they're voting each other?

(23) Prods in 1048. Maybe I should check whether they were active elsewhere.

(24) Ankamius, 1065 –

"So basically, CES is town because nothing indicates scum."

– is that all about him?

At this point I'm very tired so I may miss things. If that happens, sorry in advance.

But I still want to finish catching up tonight

, because tomorrow I may have a busy day and the Deadline is getting close.

No, sorry, I'm too tired, it's 1:15 at night here. But I'm almost there and I hope that I don't miss a lot of things in the new posts now.

But, I remember this:
CES, you asked about the Ika. Because of the Site Rules I'm only allowed to say this: all the things I know about him (which is not much, I must admit) only strengthens my scumread.
As for his Day1-wagon. Because I think he's scum I'm more concerned about those late votes on the Aero-wagon, especially since he was on V/LA.

Short summary. I'll post a more detailed readlist tomorrow.

Ika and Ankamius seem to be the scummiest. I'd lynch any of them.
As for CES and CHeeryDog – I'm mentioning them because they're the major wagons now.
The scummiest thing about CES is his late-Day1 gameplay and there were other things too. But Wgeurts said that my read is bad on him.
I, myself, unsure about CheeryDog, although a couple of things about his recent play are scummy. (See above!)

Can someone summarize the case against CES and against CheeryDog for me?

Most preferably, Zach, BBT or Antihero – they look very town and they're on either of those wagons.

Before going to bed I'll ask Wgeurts in the Team Topic whether he has anything about Ika/Ankamius/CES/Cheery. Although, another team mate asked for his reads so I don't know whether he'll have time for me. (Or how many pages he's read so far.)

VOTE: Ika
Reasons above.

Your Ika vote is beyond useless. Only CES or Cheery Dog are truly viable this close to the deadline.

[Tammy]

I was about to say that!

Also, no I clearly am not town reading BBT.

Are you reading my posts?

[Zachrulez]

I swear if this ends in a CES lynch and a town flip there will be hell to pay tomorrow.

[Tammy]

I'm leaning toward a cheery dog vote myself.

[Equinox]

Vote Count 2.20

Cogito Ergo Sum (4) - Ankamius, Antihero, BlueBloodedToffee, Cheery Dog
Cheery Dog (3) - Cogito Ergo Sum, Zachrulez, Regfan
BlueBloodedToffee (1) - ika
ika (2) - theelkspeaks, Aneninen

Not Voting (1) - Tammy

With 11 alive, it will take 6 to lynch.

The deadline is Saturday, April 25, 2015, at 4:30 PM EDT (UTC-4), which is in (expired on 2015-04-25 16:30:00).

[Aneninen]

Tammy, 1150 Yes, I asked that too. I mean, whether you were reading this game while were you in the other one. Yes, there were those reads but it was unclear whether they happened after merely checking in the game or after reading thoroughly.
Knowing this, the ISO was a double-check, I see.

How was that unclear for me? In our team it's only Wgeurts who's reading the other games (as far as I know) and he just started it today or so.
Also, I started reading this game when I replaced in. It's no surprise that I missed posts and thoughts and whatever, because I wanted to finish my catchup before the Deadline.

Zach: yes, that'swhy I asked for a short summary.

But now I'm going because I'm really tired.

[Aneninen]

Zach, I meant the summary about CES and CD. In my previousn post. What I asked.

[Tammy]

Yes, I've been reading all of my team's games from the start as much as I can!

[Ankamius]

Tammy: Now that I look at his reads again, I think Aneninen is trying to stop a townbloc from forming. You and antihero aren't very attackable, but ika and I are easier targets. Thoughts?

[Tammy]

I don't understand Anenin's catch ups or how he's getting his reads or forming the opinions because they don't follow to me at all. Here and there the comments don't seem to follow the context of what he's reading and I don't get the questions that arise either.

I doubt if Anenin is scum that he's thinking that far ahead to stop a town bloc though.

His vote and reasoning on Ika don't make much sense though. And it's problematic that he's voting off wagon less than 24 hours before deadline.

[Antihero]

I swear if this ends in a CES lynch and a town flip there will be hell to pay tomorrow.

bring it

there's still nothing town from CES. the wagon on CES are the SAME NAMES that formed the core of the aero wagon. check it.

what's the thing about doing the same thing, expecting a different result, and insanity?

[Antihero]

what's your issue w/ cheery dog's CES vote, zach?

[Antihero]

another scumread tth and i are syncing on is CES.

elaborating on this

there are a few things:
>Post 128, psyche's being "open" about something apparently doesn't float w/ cheery dog and the token. lol

>he's been HAMMERING on the same people over and over and over this game. wait for it... "but anti, you've been doing the same thing." yes, yes i have. however, i cannot boast 50 relatively chunky posts (so it's not like he just hasn't been here like i haven't). and the reasoning behind the rabid ankamius push is disappointingly anemic and reads on literally ANYONE else in the game just simply don't exist. the reasoning on cheery can pretty much be distilled to "he's more likely to be scum b/c of token" which is a really easy argument to shove and it's a really conservative move. same thing for ank. he's not an especially high risk push here, so it's really convenient that the "scumreads" fall on these two players. the third fell on the em player who already flipped town, so there's that too.

>his reaction to tth's initial accusation was a "i just shat my pants" reaction. Post 197. like the rest of the trendy crowd, he wanted to know why tth and i swapped, but he didn't bother to follow up on that train of thought. he just responded to tth's unexplained push with "OMG, how are people townreading her?" (shit his pants) and nothing else. why? because he wanted to gauge her credibility and wondered if she had the juice to actually pose a threat. what, is he going to say he was "sorting"? lol, no. that would've involved follow up and a stated read. neither of which are present in his iso

>the whole "i'm getting nk'd" routine is an old trick and it ain't foolin' me Post 608 especially given that he has no reason to be nk'd. it's overplayed.

i'm going to repost this, say that since then we still haven't seen a legit read on anyone in the game from CES yet, and remind everyone that TTH and i didn't botch the day 1 lynch.

[Tammy]

antihero have you played with ces before?

[Antihero]

i think once during a marathon game

why does it matter?

[Tammy]

Because some of the things you have him as scum for aren't really things that apply to ces!scum.

He doesn't have "shat his pants" reactions as really the only thing ces!scum fears is chamber. Or at least that used to be true.

He also doesn't really give reads on players in the game other than who he's pushing or maybe defending.

He could be scum but not for the reasons your listing. It's just that people have a tendency to scum read ces for play style, and he can be a difficult read. I'm trying to figure out if the people scum reading him are doing it for play style.

I mean if anything ces is being more open with his thoughts than I've seen from him in some games.

[Antihero]

so why was your first instinct that ces was scum?

[Tammy]

I'm still worried that he's scum.

I thought he was giving the illusion of trying to figure out the game rather than trying to figure out the game. His pushing to end the day with "wanting a scum flip when he wakes up" seemed to be mirroring Regfan's urgency too much and it felt like he was playing up to Regfan a bit in a similar way that he was playing up to Empire in yoloville. (TBF I got concerned one or both of them were scum, but I'm now of the mind that I'm not sure if both of them as partners would be toting the same line), and I can see the llamarble over regfan kill coming from ces as regfan had him as townier than marble did and I think if he were scum marble would be the one to look more closely at him.

I mean I would have bet my entire bank account that marble was dying last night because he was completely obviously town, but regfan has a point that some people did suspect him in this game. So, people not familiar with llamarble may have left him alive.

Doesn't mean that ces isn't a difficult read. Right now I'm hesitant to lynch him because he would be valuable for town if he's town, even if he thinks he's lost his spark.

[Antihero]

'mkay, so what's your issue w/ cheery dog?

[Regfan]

I'm here! Going to read up now, hoping you'll still be around for a bit Tammy.

[Tammy]

I'm here and I have whiskey!

[Regfan]

I'm jealous. I was just drinking bailey-type stuff last night.

Not sure I buy Anens explanation of the mix up in Post 1128, it's part (3). Mind taking a look at that while I read through? I think a team mate just commenting on a game saying "they look ok" is an odd thing to occur and I don't understand how he'd read that as 3 specific people are town read by his team. Might be the fact that I'm still half asleep but the whole thing doesn't make sense.

[Tammy]

Tammy, 1150 Yes, I asked that too. I mean, whether you were reading this game while were you in the other one. Yes, there were those reads but it was unclear whether they happened after merely checking in the game or after reading thoroughly.
Knowing this, the ISO was a double-check, I see.

How was that unclear for me? In our team it's only Wgeurts who's reading the other games (as far as I know) and he just started it today or so.
Also, I started reading this game when I replaced in. It's no surprise that I missed posts and thoughts and whatever, because I wanted to finish my catchup before the Deadline.

Zach: yes, that'swhy I asked for a short summary.

But now I'm going because I'm really tired.

When you say that wgeurts just started reading the game today or so, do you mean this is the first time he's reading the game?