Mod Error Mafia [TM2015] - Game Over

[Wisdom]

I think my progression has been pretty easy to follow.

-I was scumreading both Cabd and LLD.
-LLD started defending Cabd so strongly, that it made me think they're not likely partners, but rather LLD is scum and Cabd is town.
-LLD replaced out, something that is consistent with her claimed dislike of this game and her alignment, and after she firmly stated she is not replacing out. I find this to be town.
-Cabd is replacing out so I am going to be reading his slot anew.

[Wisdom]

I am having trouble with the radical changes or your read on the slot over seemingly (to me) minor things. To me replacing out doesn't mean much, since she was insistent she wasn't replacing out. I'd almost call it scummy, but maybe she had a legit reason for doing it, or maybe Grey needed to change games, or something else that she didn't tell us. I don't like to hang any hats over the activity of another player.

Well, tough luck then, that's how I am. I can argue someone is obvscum for pages and then completely 180 after I have had some sleep.

I'll insist however, that this looks like disappointment that LLD stops being pushable on your part. You don't want us to townread her slot, so you're trying to keep suspicion on it alive. That's how I am taking this.

[T-Bone]

I don't care about your read on the slot, I'm still scumreading it, ta.

[Wisdom]

To me replacing out doesn't mean much, since she was insistent she wasn't replacing out.

Exactly because she was insistent she wasn't replacing out, it looks town.

[Wisdom]

I don't care about your read on the slot, I'm still scumreading it, ta.

You're supposedly trying to figure out my read on the slot and why it is what it is, so yeah this doesn't make sense

[T-Bone]

Yeah but this is about my read on you. Your predecessors were scummy, I am scumreading your slot. I feel like you've been towning it up but this thing you have done doesn't make sense to me from a town perspective.

[Wisdom]

This I will also take as doubtcasting, because both mollie and I are obvtown and everyone else thinks so

[Wisdom]

1975 is my progression, mate. Tell me which part doesn't make sense from a town perspective.

[shos]

WWoooooh1!!!

first time in the game since my catchup that I need to catch up! this means activity is sparking! good wisdom!!

page by page as usual.

They are ONLY based on reality. it's just that you don't accept that me calling you a liar is legitimate.

No I don't accept that you as a player should EVER use alignment independent reasons to justify any reads. Which is what you've done this game, and hopefully with enough ridicule and my eventual townflip you will never ever saddle another playerlist with them, because no playerlist deserves you trying to use them.

YOU think it's alignment independent; both iec and me acknowledged that while weak, this can definitely be a thing. Don't morally judge me, if you are scum you may just be faking all this discussion for your own benefit, too. Also the amount of energy you invest in "burning" me for it is ridiculous; you have like 30 posts that are flaming/throwing mud at/discreditting me; this looks really bad from my POV.

GreyICE replaces Lady Lambdadelta

THIS IS GOOD.
Anyone knows if LLD has a preferred alignment?

[Rhinox]

So, I'm just going to set aside (not ignore) the last 10 pages for now because I can't organize my thoughts on them without wallposting and that doesn't seem very productive.

Wisdom, talk to me about shos. Everybody just keeps saying that this is just how town shos plays and well I don't have that meta history with shos. There's no one I want to lynch more right now and that makes it difficult to look anywhere else. Can you explain it to me why this is town shos? And/or can you link me to some games you played with shos town and scum so I can read and build up a meta in my mind to compare this game too? I asked my team overnight if I should back off from wanting to lynch shos since besides LLD I was really the only one for it. My team wasn't able to conclusively say whether I should or shouldn't back off. TH told me to trust my read (on shos), and Tammy told me to listen to your read on shos if I felt your slot was town because you 3 have been in some recent games together and were scumpartners too? So, why is this not scum shos?

[shos]

page 78's posts until 1934 are interesting. In light of what T-bone says, and togeter with what wisdom says, this makesa the argument I thought about in the post above ^^^^ about preferred alignment, and supports LLD town. However:
1. Wisdom - you had like, reasons, to think LLD was scum - does this negate all of them and transpose it?
2. what do you think about T-bone's reaction to your post with 1929? do you think it's genuine? to me it sounds fake as hell.
3. assuming townread on LLD's slot - what does that make you think of cabd, now?

I find the fact that he claimed to being replaced and haven't yet replaced is odd and I'm not sure if stallling intentionally. Is he replacing with a teammate or with a completely different person? <<<remember this after replacement.

NS prodded. surprise.. he hasn't done anything at all since start of D1...dat scum.

Iec, explain 1937 for me?

oh longposts...will respond in another post

[shos]

editting the quote:

the quote

He feels that NS is not really scumhunting and that his interactions with reck are not attempts to actually form a read on him. And he says that his keeping track of first roll claims looks like an attempt to stay busy.

He thinks notscience's insistence on previous roles without explaining why and doing something about it is weird. Especially if he uses it to very easily write off cabd as town. Just because someone (he himself did too!) maybe lied about their role.

I think that especially the second observation is very valid. He was just looking for a way to townread cabd for a while. However, I do see a number of posts that I associate with town, such as his posts where he presents reads. He doesn't try to take credit for moving the game with them.

Why did you feel the role-claiming thing was town?

I agree with Egg on NS, more like the first than the second but it seeems it's talking only about the first parts of the game? I could use some more updated shots to help discern YOUR alignment, please?

and lol at last sentence too haha

~~
the interaction in this page between Wisdom and Tiershift looks interesting. Heye veveryone, read it good. does this look like they are both scum? I think not. if one flips scum, I'm going to let the other go, I think.

~~
TS, tell me WHY to drop the bone scumread. WHYYYYY is there SO FUCKING MUCH resistance to that guy.

~~
And why vote reck?

[shos]

I more think Reck/NS

ceph

/tbone right now

ftfy

[shos]

and I feel that the efforts to connect him to cabd or reck are scum-motivated

Reck has pushed cabd all game. At some points he mentioned ceph being scum with him, but never pushed him himself. That's why I feel like he could easily be his buddy.

hmm. This deserves a reread I think.

As for ceph, like I said, I feel like he has been consistently active, but what has he.done? What content has he produced? That's why I'm saying it's all surface.

Can you point me to some posts of his that you really feel show town motivation?

Not feeling like doing this right now. If you still want it later, please remind me.

[shos]

It's not disappointment, I just don't get why you think LLD replacing out is alignment relevant (more importantly town relevant).

I explained why, do you still not get it?

you see, NOTHING is alignment relevant to T-bone...

[shos]

Your predecessors were scummy, I am scumreading your slot.

REAAAAAALLY?
intrigue me. for realz. tell me why Eddie was scummy. wooooh this is getting good

[Rhinox]

Can you tell me why egg thinks NS is scum?

He's behind and working double shifts so he's not catching up anytime soon. What he told me and I kinda agree with, is this:

through first six pages

He feels that NS is not really scumhunting and that his interactions with reck are not attempts to actually form a read on him. And he says that his keeping track of first roll claims looks like an attempt to stay busy.

through pages 6-14

He thinks notscience's insistence on previous roles without explaining why and doing something about it is weird. Especially if he uses it to very easily write off cabd as town. Just because someone (he himself did too!) maybe lied about their role.

I think that especially the second observation is very valid. He was just looking for a way to townread cabd for a while. However, I do see a number of posts that I associate with town, such as his posts where he presents reads. He doesn't try to take credit for moving the game with them.

Why did you feel the role-claiming thing was town?

I liked that NS tried to figure out a way to find out if anyone was lying about their previous roles. He's the only one who tried to make the previous role claiming actually relevant to this game. Even though (and possibly especially because) it didn't really work out it looked like a genuine attempt at doing something pro-town and I like how he was basically just "meh this isn't really working" and moved on.

It just doesn't look like scum would go through the effort of doing and then not have a real plan to do anything with. I don't think the point was to call Cabd town because if I'm remembering correctly he didn't actually call Cabd town. He said if it could be proven that someone lied then that would be an indication that Cabd was town and scum wanted to try to screw with whatever analysis he hoped to do with the information.

Relatedly, I do think it is likely there were lies in the previous roles because nobody claimed to be vanilla town, and my previous role knew a vanilla townie existed. Reck's claim was the closest but was not a vanilla claim so... :shrug: Not sure what to do with this information/revelation at the moment.

There is also NS's own claim. I believe he is truly hated because it's too easily testable even by accident to be something to fake. The condition if true also points to being town because there is no reason to give a "except in lylo" condition to a hated scum. The whole reason for the condition is to prevent scum from being able to immediately end the game in lylo. And then I kinda fall down a rabbit hole of would the mod give the condition to a scum just because? or would scumNS fake the condition to make the claim seem town and/or to prevent getting policy lynched? my head just kinda starts spinning a little bit. Thats why I don't put TOO much emphasis on NS's claim but it does influence my read of NS ever so slightly in the town direction for it. Does this make any sense at all?

[shos]

Rhinox, I'd say drop it, but obviously that isn't enough.
I'll just say then that, if (by meta) someone is being town or scum read by more than 2 individuals, and I repeat the (by meta) part, then I would trust that read.

I'm trying to be fully coherent and be as see-through as can be, share all my thoughts and all. I understand why boner is scumreading me, but that's just because he is scum. you- I'm really not sure.

pedit: will read asap.

[xRECKONERx]

UNVOTE:

that replace out is probably town

What? Why?

He has been hounded for his activity the entire game.

I fucking cannot STAND it when people try to claim alignment-related information based off of non-game-related things... especially when it is done so in error. There's nothing "town" about Cabd's replace out. He kept getting heat for it. He waited to replace out until after he was starting to actually have momentum build towards him today. That, to me, says that if anything, he is replacing out due to pressure, not because of some town mindset.

[xRECKONERx]

So. Reck is scum, and probably Ceph is his partner, judging from how he has been calling him scum with Cabd but never actually voted him.

I've said all day I'm fine voting Cephrir. All game, actually.

I haven't done a whole hell of a lot because real life sucks sometimes but this associative tell crap based on

literally nothing but speculation

is awful.

No reasons. No case. Nothing.

[xRECKONERx]

and I feel that the efforts to connect him to cabd or reck are scum-motivated

Reck has pushed cabd all game. At some points he mentioned ceph being scum with him, but never pushed him himself. That's why I feel like he could easily be his buddy.

Just for the record, my reads on Ceph & Cabd as scum developed completely independent of each other and are in no way correlated other than me just reading then as scum D1. The attempts to paint this as me specifically pushing for Cabd/Ceph scumpair like they're connected to my reads seems off.

I have two people I think are highly scummy. Obviously, if they were scum together, that'd be great. I fully plan to reevaluate and assess the gamestate once I have a flip on one of them.

[Wisdom]

Anyone knows if LLD has a preferred alignment?

She said in the beginning of the game she prefers scum, she even spent tokens on getting scum and got it, but then it got rerolled.

[xRECKONERx]

I'm burst posting when I can. This new job is destroying my brain and my free time.

I'm stepping away again, will try to check in later, really important work shit to do in about half an hour. But I think the pushes on me are generally bad since they don't have any weight besides "lynch all lurkers". The hoops people are jumping through to try to explain scum motivation behind my legitimate, thought out, explained reads are just balls. You want to say my reads are bad/shit? Fine, do that, but attack the case. Nobody up to this point has actually done anything like that and nobody is explaining their push/read on me in anything other than vague conditionals and gut and policy.

[Rhinox]

UNVOTE:

that replace out is probably town

What? Why?

He has been hounded for his activity the entire game.

I fucking cannot STAND it when people try to claim alignment-related information based off of non-game-related things... especially when it is done so in error. There's nothing "town" about Cabd's replace out. He kept getting heat for it. He waited to replace out until after he was starting to actually have momentum build towards him today. That, to me, says that if anything, he is replacing out due to pressure, not because of some town mindset.

I think wisdom was talking about LLD there but your response is still interesting. Cabd was almost lynched D1. If he was going to replace out due to pressure why wouldn't he have replaced out then? If anything, there is less momentum towards lynching him today.

[Wisdom]

@Rhinox
I can't really explain it. He has been active, doing town things, looking like town shos. I can link you to games if you want but I doubt you will understand anything, in my experience cold meta sucks. You could tell me why you think he is scum and I can try telling you why you're wrong.