Mod Error Mafia [TM2015] - Game Over

[xRECKONERx]

also: you having a personal vendetta against me because ??? does not mean pursuing that personal vendetta is pro-town, what on earth

[GreyICE]

I said I'd hammer if you were at L-1, but I'd rather lynch scum.

How the fuck did that suffice to send you into a tailspin of panic posting? Good god, I couldn't have applied gentler pressure if I tried.

[xRECKONERx]

Because you're being a raging cunt right now and it's really fucking offensive when you decide to just come into a game and make it personal for no fucking reason, and my posting was a way for me to try and neutralize the situation without responding at length about how much of a cunt you're being.

[GreyICE]

Kats has flipped and was town.

Why is ceph town? Read on tbone?

Ceph is town for two reasons. First is the early miller claim. That's like a bloody obvious town tell. The only time I've seen scum claim miller first post is if they waited a few pages. Right out on like the second post of the game, not even waiting for counterclaim? Maybe if he got a miller fakeclaim, MAYBE. Frankly I'd probably townread on that alone, but if I had to describe his attitude it's DGAF. I don't see Cephir coming into team mafia, randomly rolling scum (no matter what his token assignments were) and then nonchalantly deciding to play DGAF piss-in-your-face scum. Most likely he's town.

T-Bone I had as mildly scummy, but that was a while ago, and I never reached day 2. For the past few pages he seems active and aggressive.

[GreyICE]

Because you're being a raging cunt right now and it's really fucking offensive when you decide to just come into a game and make it personal for no fucking reason, and my posting was a way for me to try and neutralize the situation without responding at length about how much of a cunt you're being.

'kay, go bugger yourself and stop talking to me.

[Wisdom]

Ceph is town for two reasons. First is the early miller claim.

The setup pre-reroll had a scum miller.

[Wisdom]

I don't see Cephir coming into team mafia, randomly rolling scum (no matter what his token assignments were) and then nonchalantly deciding to play DGAF piss-in-your-face scum. Most likely he's town.

What kind of scum would you expect him to play?

[shos]

And if we're talking about this. the 'defintion' part of the lylo in his role PM, supposedly. add this rule to your calculation:

6. Endgame: In the event that a Day starts with 1 Town player and 1 Mafia player, the Mafia will immediately win.

so....basically, even if we mislynch a "mylo" according to NS, roles can exist that may prevent a win; or even in a "lylo". who knows.

so I call bullshit.

Hmmm... This is interesting because I was actually already considering this rule but I had remembered the wording of it wrong.

I thought it said that if a day starts with an equal number of town and scum the mafia would immediately win. Worded this way my thinking was this rule wouldn't make sense with scum who was hated but not in lylo because only scum who was always hated would mean a gamestate with an equal number of town and scum wouldn't technically be over. So if scum was always hated then the rule would be needed to prevent the crappy gamestate from occurring but also I assumed it was just the generic "endgame" rule whether a hated scum exists or not.

But... it is interesting because the rule specifically says 1 town and 1 mafia. That is not the generic endgame rule. So, the mafia does not automatically win if there is 2 and 2 or 3 and 3? only specifically 1 and 1? I know magua is very intentional with his word choices so it says that for a reason.

So hyothetically if NS is hated scum and there is 3 town and 3 scum alive, normally this would be game over because town could never achieve majority lynch. But scum could also not majority lynch and if NS were in the game the 3 townies could vote NS but the game would go to 2-2 the next day unless the nk was prevented, which I guess could happen maybe. But why does the "mafia wins a 1v1 endgame always" rule exist then? I guess it could be because without it NS would have a much harder time winning solo if his partners were killed off.

This may be a thing.

But the condition - the above only makes sense if the condition is a lie. NS said his role PM said:

It says that while there are more than twice the scum+1 players alive I am hated.

If it were 3v3 or 2v2 with NS alive by NS's definition he would not be hated because 6 <= 2*3 + 1.

So if the condition is not a lie then 3v3 or 2v2 is still an endgame loss for town unless there is some other mechanic or some other player is hated scum even in lylo.

I kinda wanna organize running everybody except NS to L-1 now and see who dies, but I don't have faith that someone wouldn't fuck it up.

would like people's comments on this

[shos]

His response to me saying I hope he's scum so I can lynch him is to immediately start discrediting me and calling me scum.

His "reasons" for targeting me http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 30523(121) were really shallow [see response in (146)]... after this takedown of his post, he says all he really wanted was for me to admit it was early D1.

Supposedly, that was the thrust of his push against me. And then... outta nowhere... later... shitty reasonless vote!

Since then, nothing. He has reiterated a desire to lynch me, but has yet to actually put a solid reason behind his vote (not that I've seen). Now, his voice is just one of many, joining a choir of reasonless parrots.

I'm town, and I'm pretty goddamn confident the swell of people shouting that I'm scum without actually moving on it means 1) it's an easy, agreeable wagon to hide behind because I'm lurking, and 2) scum are just setting their sights on juicier targets first before rolling me up as the free mislynch later.

I agree that Cephrir is really scummy. Basically the only reason I am not 100% on the Ceph wagon are points-knowledge (but he admitted he made that up, claimed intent being avoiding others fishing for who knew, admittedly no obvious scum motive in claiming to have made it up) and T-Bone's claim that he took no action last night.

When you are scum and someone asks what action you took, you sometimes panic and name a plausible target (e.g., because you assume that town must have some kind of positive track result). This ends in you claiming contrary to the result and being caught. I inferred that this was what T-Bone was attempting.

One weird thing is that he did this only to Cephrir. At the time, I assumed this was because only Cephrir took an action. But he later claimed that neither of them took an action. Weirderer, Cephrir IMPLIED that he had taken an action (though not 100%) and T-Bone didn't jump on it. Though Cephrir's relevant content (something like "Why would you ever do that given what the answer is?") could just be saying "Why do that when you know I didn't target anyone?"

He since claimed that he did it only to Cephrir because he was more likely to get a good result on Cephrir (which I assumed meant Cephrir took an action unlike Eddie, but was apparently actually just a reference to Cephrir's activity level).

if either ceph or Tbone flip scum, remind me to lynch this

[shos]

My inference from that at the time was that Cephrir had taken an action (unlike Eddie), which was why you pressured Cephrir, but Cephrir had targeted someone that implied his alignment was town, so he was indignant.

The reality is that no one targeted anyone.

Which means Cephrir (and Wisdom) are probably town unless they are a ninja or the scum have 2 goons. Or T-Bone is scum with them.

could you reexplain this using quotes cuz I'm confused

also I know that someone targetted me tonight.

[shos]

Oh, to me he was implying he took no action which I knew to be true. And then we went into the whole thing as to why I did it.

It doesn't mean anything about their alignment, it just means neither of them could have carried out the kill. If scum they could have x-shot abilities and not used them. In Wisdom's case he could have a night action and was unable to carry it out. Out of 11 players in the game I know for sure 3 of them (me, Ceph, Wis) did not carry out the kill last night and that is huge.

why is that huge? scum need only one person to make the kill.?

also, you seem to still be scumreading these slots. who are your working theory scumteam, then? if they diodn't make the kill and you still scumread them, then what's the point?

[Iecerint]

Just reread the start of D2, because you clearly missed the main important event today.

[shos]

And if we're talking about this. the 'defintion' part of the lylo in his role PM, supposedly. add this rule to your calculation:

6. Endgame: In the event that a Day starts with 1 Town player and 1 Mafia player, the Mafia will immediately win.

so....basically, even if we mislynch a "mylo" according to NS, roles can exist that may prevent a win; or even in a "lylo". who knows.

so I call bullshit.

Hmmm... This is interesting because I was actually already considering this rule but I had remembered the wording of it wrong.

I thought it said that if a day starts with an equal number of town and scum the mafia would immediately win. Worded this way my thinking was this rule wouldn't make sense with scum who was hated but not in lylo because only scum who was always hated would mean a gamestate with an equal number of town and scum wouldn't technically be over. So if scum was always hated then the rule would be needed to prevent the crappy gamestate from occurring but also I assumed it was just the generic "endgame" rule whether a hated scum exists or not.

But... it is interesting because the rule specifically says 1 town and 1 mafia. That is not the generic endgame rule. So, the mafia does not automatically win if there is 2 and 2 or 3 and 3? only specifically 1 and 1? I know magua is very intentional with his word choices so it says that for a reason.

So hyothetically if NS is hated scum and there is 3 town and 3 scum alive, normally this would be game over because town could never achieve majority lynch. But scum could also not majority lynch and if NS were in the game the 3 townies could vote NS but the game would go to 2-2 the next day unless the nk was prevented, which I guess could happen maybe. But why does the "mafia wins a 1v1 endgame always" rule exist then? I guess it could be because without it NS would have a much harder time winning solo if his partners were killed off.

This may be a thing.

But the condition - the above only makes sense if the condition is a lie. NS said his role PM said:

It says that while there are more than twice the scum+1 players alive I am hated.

If it were 3v3 or 2v2 with NS alive by NS's definition he would not be hated because 6 <= 2*3 + 1.

So if the condition is not a lie then 3v3 or 2v2 is still an endgame loss for town unless there is some other mechanic or some other player is hated scum even in lylo.

I kinda wanna organize running everybody except NS to L-1 now and see who dies, but I don't have faith that someone wouldn't fuck it up.

if NS is in lylo, he's not hated supposedly, and then we lynch scum, back to hated?
and if we mislynch lylo, and scum fail to kill because doc/block/whatever, then he's not hated?
this roleclaim sounds fishy as hell.

GreyICE, read up, tell me what you think of Tboner; also, claiming miller is not yet alignment indicative imo but.. what do you think about claiming hated?

[GreyICE]

GreyICE, read up, tell me what you think of Tboner; also, claiming miller is not yet alignment indicative imo but.. what do you think about claiming hated?

HOLY FUCK

The only thing you got out of it is it's "not alignment indicative"? How? There's multiple ways to claim miller! Lets go over a quick checklist:

1) Claimed super early in the game, first post -

Town

2) Did not suggest Supah Sekret Powahs that went along with the miller role -

Town

3) Did not use the miller claim to sit out the early game -

Town

4) Has not been scumplaining about how no one trusts him just because he's a miller -

Town

Miller claims come in many flavors. Everything above is bad flavor.

Notscience was Hated? Skimming ISO

1) Claimed later in the game, claimed not in first post
2) Modified claim later to avoid policy lynch.
3) Claim came with extra wibbits (Conditional)

Not fond of overall posting. Hated claim is null-scummy. Also missed the later modification of the claim, that's really damn bad

Does this make the difference clear?

[GreyICE]

T-Bone: No idea. Liked his posting for passion on the last few pages, I guess.

[GreyICE]

Just reread the start of D2, because you clearly missed the main important event today.

Care to summarize?

[T-Bone]

GreyICE, read up, tell me what you think of Tboner; also, claiming miller is not yet alignment indicative imo but.. what do you think about claiming hated?

NOT alignment indicative? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL THIS IS LITERALLY THE FUNNIEST THING YOU HAVE EVER TYPED IN YOUR LIFE BECAUSE YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS TROLOLOLOLOLOLOL

[shos]

GreyICE, read up, tell me what you think of Tboner; also, claiming miller is not yet alignment indicative imo but.. what do you think about claiming hated?

HOLY FUCK

The only thing you got out of it is it's "not alignment indicative"? How? There's multiple ways to claim miller! Lets go over a quick checklist:

1) Claimed super early in the game, first post -

Town

2) Did not suggest Supah Sekret Powahs that went along with the miller role -

Town

3) Did not use the miller claim to sit out the early game -

Town

4) Has not been scumplaining about how no one trusts him just because he's a miller -

Town

Miller claims come in many flavors. Everything above is bad flavor.

Notscience was Hated? Skimming ISO

1) Claimed later in the game, claimed not in first post
2) Modified claim later to avoid policy lynch.
3) Claim came with extra wibbits (Conditional)

Not fond of overall posting. Hated claim is null-scummy. Also missed the later modification of the claim, that's really damn bad

Does this make the difference clear?

don't get me wrong here, I fully agree
ceph is town
NS is scum

[shos]

GreyICE, read up, tell me what you think of Tboner; also, claiming miller is not yet alignment indicative imo but.. what do you think about claiming hated?

NOT alignment indicative? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL THIS IS LITERALLY THE FUNNIEST THING YOU HAVE EVER TYPED IN YOUR LIFE BECAUSE YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS TROLOLOLOLOLOLOL

have you guys never claimed miller first post as scum?

f'kin newbs

[Iecerint]

GreyICE, I would agree with you a lot more if the original set-up hadn't had a miller. Also, he DID suggest Supah Sekret Powahs re: knowledge of the point system (which he's since said he doesn't have), though not related to miller.

Cephrir did have a pretty townie early game for sure in terms of activity and so on.

Anyway, I don't want to lynch Cephrir for boring nightaction-probability reasons, so I'm not really going to dispute current actions on Cephrir with you.

[Wisdom]

I repeat, scum miller is a viable role here. Why can't ceph have it?

[Iecerint]

Just reread the start of D2, because you clearly missed the main important event today.

Care to summarize?

The posts that led Shos to ask me to remind him about the start of D2 already WERE a summary. Just read my "today" iso and you'll get it.

Basically T-Bone claimed null-track on Cephrir and Eddie=Wisdom in a way that implied otherwise on Cephrir at first, but was not inconsistent with null-tracks. There's slight weirdness on treating Cephrir and Eddie asymmetrically given identical results, but he justified it by Cephrir's higher activity level.

[T-Bone]

GreyICE, read up, tell me what you think of Tboner; also, claiming miller is not yet alignment indicative imo but.. what do you think about claiming hated?

NOT alignment indicative? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL THIS IS LITERALLY THE FUNNIEST THING YOU HAVE EVER TYPED IN YOUR LIFE BECAUSE YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS TROLOLOLOLOLOLOL

have you guys never claimed miller first post as scum?

f'kin newbs

But that's not what I'm laughing at you see, because you just demonstrated that you know when things are not alignment indicative, yet you've been demonstrating the entire game that you actually don't! It's so hilarious AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA thank you for making my day.

[T-Bone]

Just reread the start of D2, because you clearly missed the main important event today.

Care to summarize?

The posts that led Shos to ask me to remind him about the start of D2 already WERE a summary. Just read my "today" iso and you'll get it.

Basically T-Bone claimed null-track on Cephrir and Eddie=Wisdom in a way that implied otherwise on Cephrir at first, but was not inconsistent with null-tracks. There's slight weirdness on treating Cephrir and Eddie asymmetrically given identical results, but he justified it by Cephrir's higher activity level.

I got this track as the result of another players ability. I did not track Eddie/Wisdom, that was a different action.

[GreyICE]

I repeat, scum miller is a viable role here. Why can't ceph have it?

It's not about the role. It's about how he claimed. I actually gave Shos a bullet point list of how I liked the behavior up above, I can't make it any clearer than that.

Anyway, this is taking up too much time. It wasn't the only reason for my town read (even though it's the one 100,000 posts have been made about) and it's in no way interesting. I just got out of an 80,000 post spamfest, lets not make a new one.

PEdit: He double tracked? Like a role that lets you track two people?
Pedit2: wut