Signs and Void (Game Over) [TM2015]

[Titus]

Boon: Mastina

Reasons would be nice.

[singersigner]

Alternatively, you were purposefully vague so much so that I wasn't the only one who thought you didn't know who Viktor actually was in the game and could use whatever misinterpretation to your advantage! It should've been pretty clear by my reaction that I didn't realize you were asking me to specify exactly who I thought Viktor was, so do you think I was slow-playing it to set up this massive slip I thought you had?

Besides, you've already done an outstanding job at deliberately marginalizing yourself this game with your claims of not being good at D1 or discussions with Ffery about wanting to get better, etc. It's not like it's a new strategy/concept for you this game.

Preview Edit:
HEY FORMERFISH HAVE YOU CAUGHT UP YET BECAUSE YOU'RE DOING AN OUTSTANDING JOB OF NOT DOING ANYTHING.

[vezokpiraka]

boon cdb

I like his ability and think he's town.

[Titus]

Admitting my weaknesses is not deliberately marginalizong myself. It's letting people know what I am good for and not good for.

Wow. Purposefully vague to marginalize myself when I make a clear post stating that I cannot respond without knowing who Victor is... if you legit thought I was "playing dumb" why follow up with the same question? Why not say this then?

You are trying to craft a theory rather than attack anyone specific in my townblock.Congrats, it is working.


Now you want to come after me, do it during the major day. We have a day left on this boon decision. Every post you insist on chainsawing to ensure a CDB boon makes it harder for discussion of a smart play with clear results.

[singersigner]

No one's around, Titus. This has been the slowest the game's been BY FAR. I'm not making the discussion harder. People not discussing it or making a choice is making it harder.

And what same question? I thought you were making fun of me because I mispelled it, but when I clarified you still said you didn't know what I was saying, so I said I thought you were playing dumb then. This isn't new...

But for to give you the benefit of the doubt, our theory was that it was Shadoweh (which shouldn't be surprising) but since there haven't been any scum flips, it wasn't something worth delving into. We were just arguing over how strong that theory was at the time because Mastin also seemed like a decent candidate. Your wagon stalled, though, so I speculated it could've been you.

Again, it's pointless to call out someone specific without an actual flip, which you would know, so that's why I thought you were trying to be cheeky about it.

[Untrod Tripod]

kiiiiiiiiiiinda think we should boon someone who is almost-definitely-town so we can avoid giving scum the maximum number of kills

what do I know though, I'm just trying to not lose the game~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~(*&(*#&$#$#$#

[Titus]

So I'll take it you're scumreading both CDB and Mastina, UT?

CDB is wrong logically, but still the plausibility of getting something makes people want to do it. Voting for TTH is like not booning at all, considering he doesn't do anything. That dog don't hunt.

@Singer, I asked you to stop repeating something and answer why Mastina is actually a decent or poor boon. You have insisted on ignoring that. Why? Because you know it's the right play but your biggest scumread cannot suggest the right play.

[Untrod Tripod]

I didn't say I was scumreading CDB, don't put words in my mouth

[Untrod Tripod]

for someone who is all about dat logic you sure do jump to a lot of conclusions

my argument is all about *minimizing risk*

[Titus]

Right, but if you actually townread CDB, then you wouldn't feel there was risk in CDB. So I do think it's fair to say you're either scumreading CDB or you're doubtcasting him.

Absolutely minimizing risk is not booning at all. Booning TTH is the equivalent to not booning.

[Untrod Tripod]

I always think there's risk in my townreads

unlike some people in this conversation I don't think I'm fucking infallible

[Untrod Tripod]

like, do you not understand how completely insane it is to say "I'm townreading this person, therefore THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO RISK THAT I COULD BE WRONG"

[Untrod Tripod]

Absolutely minimizing risk is not booning at all. Booning TTH is the equivalent to not booning.

wow and I was in favor of baning myself because it had absolutely no effect

you're pretty close to understanding my thought process I think

[Titus]

Wow, you're still hedging and doubtcasting. Every player has a risk. Hell, TTH even has some risk.

But if you're position is all about avoiding risk, then why are you booning someone who is guaranteed to give us nothing? The only possibility (however remote you may believe it to be) is that nothing happens or scum get a boon.

You're acting as if I'm ignoring the risk that Mastina could be scum. Anyone could be scum. At that point, we'd just never boon.

[Titus]

We have to take some risk to get the reward.

[Untrod Tripod]

saying doubtcasting over and over won't make it true

sorry

[hitogoroshi]

VC 109 (Minor Day 2, VC 11)

Boon:

Target player automatically matches Sign for all abilities this Major Night.

(7)

ChannelDelibird:

singersigner, Oversoul, TellTaleHeart, Shadoweh, ChannelDelibird, DeasVail, vezokpiraka [L-2]
(3)

mastin2:

Titus, Cheetory6, Formerfish
(1)

TellTaleHeart:

Untrod Tripod
(1)

Oversoul:

Gammagooey

(5)

No Boon Vote:

Bulbazak, ActionDan, Espeonage, Aronis, mastin2

(DeasVail, Formerfish, vezokpiraka)

With 17 players alive it's 9 to Boon. Minor Day One ends on Monday, May 4th at 8:00 PM CST.

Minor Day One Deadline

(expired on 2015-05-04 20:00:00)

mastin2 is V/LA until May 4th.

[singersigner]

You didn't ask me to comment on Mastin at all. You just asked me to tell you why CDB was better/what the point of booning him was. So I did.

We have a claimed doctor and a claimed investigator. Rule 1 of mafia setups.

Follow the cop

should not be a recipe for a town victory. Follow the cop has only been possible once, but the cop was a serial killer that was untouchable by the scumteam (I'm still pissed on that one). The more logical action (considering the depths this setup got reviewed), is that scum have a roleblocker. Booning CDB ensures that he's either dead or roleblocked. So what's the point in booning him? So you are right that I'm very against Booning CDB. Most people should be. Yet, the analysis is looking at the fact it's

possible

that CDB gets an investigation. I highly doubt it.

How would booning the doctor be any better?? You're talking about booning the claimed doctor who would get a guaranteed protect on everyone but themselves because who knows the details about the bulletproof/scum roles in the game? Are you taking that risk because you have a strongman on your team? Like maybe it just comes down to which risk you're willing to take, and I'll concede to that. But calling it a sucky boon seems overkill if you're not willing to fight it.

In fact, I specifically said it came down to the risk you're willing to take, not that it was a shitty boon. Which is also why I felt like you were going overboard calling the CDB boon actively bad...which I also said. I think scum are more likely to want the unverified BP doctor to be booned than the tracker.

More importantly, did I sufficiently respond to your most recent comments in 4681? Or were you projecting me ignoring a question you never asked onto me?

We have to take some risk to get the reward.

What's the risk? What's the reward? We can't 100% assume either one of the claims are true but we can assume certain motivations or intentions and deduce how we feel from there. You're pushing the agenda that people are wrong or scummy or stupid for wanting to Boon CDB over Mastin, but at LEAST there are three town on each wagon. Who's wrong and why? Where's the wrong/scum/stupid motivation for people wanting to trust a claimed guaranteed track over a claimed guaranteed doc?

[Titus]

@UT, Yes. You are doubtcasting. You are putting forth there is a risk to booning CDB because he or anyone could be scum. If you think there's a decent possibility of CDB being scum, you need to explain it. We are running out of time to get a boon off at all. So yes, you do need to explain more than some vague "possibility" of CDB being scum. Saying someone could be scum and nothing more is the very definition of doubtcasting.

@Singer,

I'm sorry if you have trouble understanding my position that's well articulated. *shrug* Ok, no I'm not. But now since you're willing to discuss things, let's try and talk.

CDB
Risk - CDB being scum (remote), CDB being blocked (high), CDB not matching sign (unlikely), CDB getting someone who went nowhere and therefore no result (unknown, depends on how many PRs are in the setup)
Reward - A track if all the above doesn't happen, if blocked/nomatch, nothing.

Mastina
Risk - Mastina being scum(remote), no heal on CDB if roleblocker {exists regardless of boon}
Reward - Protection on CDB/TTH unless roleblock, semi-guaranteed protection on Mastina {who roleblocks the person they plan on killing}


Anyone not voting for Mastina is just wrong, but I fear I'm running out of time and unique ways to convince people of the fact booning CDB is nearly useless. There is the same exact risk if you're townreading them both, but a bigger reward with Mastina, so what's the problem?

Oh and now you've started to answer the question by actually discussing booning as to which act is better rather than painting disagreement as scummy.

You're pushing the agenda that people are wrong or scummy or stupid for wanting to Boon CDB over Mastin, but at LEAST there are three town on each wagon.

(3) mastin2: Titus, Cheetory6, Formerfish
Well there's only three people on the Mastina wagon, thank you for finally being willing to work with me.

[singersigner]

Yeah don't mistake that as me calling you town.

If I didn't have such a town read on Cheetory I'd say Mastin's boon is entirely scum who's afraid of CDB's track. But *shrug* if you want to pretend that my point wasn't that at least three town had to be voting for the CDB wagon compared to the three people on Mastin's and therefore couldn't be a terrible idea because lo and behold Titus isn't the endall sayall of what's good or bad in this game, then go for it. You'll have to find a way to convince everyone.

If you want to go back and point to the posts where you clearly articulated these points already, that would be more helpful than you posturing about how I'm just now willing to discuss things when I've clearly been willing to by my last several posts. But with regards to your point, I don't think a Mastin protect is worth much since there's no guarantee either is telling the truth anyway. A scumCDB would have a very hard time fighting through no results and explaining himself without being killed over and over again, but a townCDB would at least give us more information than someone who may or may not be targeted by Mastin anyway.

[Titus]

You don't get it.

No follow the cop allowed.
Scum have a roleblocker.

I'm not valuing Mastina's doc anymore than CDB's track. I'm supposing that neither will happen to any significant respect. Rather, it's Mastina's bulletproof that I'm valuing more. By booning her, we force scum to block her, thus keeping her alive. By keeping her alive, we have her prowess available to crack the fucking game.

I'm not refinding everytime I've said CDB will likely be blocked again. Go read.

[singersigner]

Alright I'll say it since you seem to be too dense to acknowledge it: statements like "I'm a dead woman" or "I'm a walking dead woman" don't come from someone who's bulletproof without stipulations. Now, I'll ask her to keep that to herself since she doesn't need to divulge any more information than necessary, but you seem to have it in your head that this bulletproof doc (WHICH HOW CAN YOU NOT EVEN QUESTION HOW FUCKING POWERFUL THAT IS IN A GAME LIKE THIS OH RIGHT BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO APPEASE YOUR BIGGEST SUPPORTER) is infallible and can't be penetrated by scum for whatever reason...maybe there's a hidden mechanic we don't know about! Or maybe there's a hidden mechanic YOU know about that you know won't be an issue is she's booned. It's all fucking speculation, so no. it's. not. wrong.

[Titus]

@Singer, I have absolutely factored that in. Please, I myself have claimed macho bulletproof cop. Bulletproof is my favorite thing to claim as a town PR that should die. To me, there's three possible variants to Mastina's role

Bulletproof that must match sign of her killer - Booning is an obvious positive
Doctor without bulletproof wifoming - Shut up about this possibility. You've eluded to it, but that's anti-town as fuck to postulate beyond the obvious that yes I'm aware of it and I did factor it in. If we boon Mastina in this instance, then scum would be more likely to roleblocker, thus keeping her alive. Roleblocking her and killing her is woefully inefficient.
Doc plus bulletproof - obvious reason why to boon.

Yeah, maybe a hidden mechanic to stop follow the cop that would still allow CDB to get a result if he's booned, come on.

Stop yelling and spinning everything as scum motivation.

[Titus]

**claimed that in a past game

[singersigner]

If scum are roleblocking CDB, wouldn't they also be keeping him alive? And if Mastina's BP, wouldn't that keep her alive? And if she gets a successful save off, wouldn't that have the option of keeping three people alive? Everything you're suggesting that will allow two saves no matter what are equally applicable to a roleblock being used toward CDB, but with the net gain of a potential result based on mechanic madness.