White Flag Mafia [TM2015] (Game Over)

[Ankamius]

CES: Read on Regfan. Go.

[Equinox]

Vote Count 5.06

BlueBloodedToffee (1) - Cogito Ergo Sum
Cogito Ergo Sum (1) - BlueBloodedToffee

Not Voting (3) - Ankamius, ika, Regfan

With 5 alive, it will take 3 to lynch.

The deadline is Friday, May 29, 2015, at 3:30 PM EDT (UTC-4), which is in (expired on 2015-05-29 15:30:00).

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Generally when I read his posts or I've engaged with me, I think town but his continual absences and the diminished impact that he's had this game compared to what I expect of him have bothered me. The way he pushed me Yesterday when I went after BBT did seem off, especially in light of Today where he's decided that BBT is scummier than me (which I maintain is the correct play for BBT-Regfan; just imagine what happens if he picks BBT's side) without giving much in the way of reasons when Yesterday he seemed to think the BBT-Psyche interactions exonerated BBT.

I still think it's more likely to be you and BBT, but I can see BBT-Regfan.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

But if you're town, exhibit A that it's BBT is the way he's handled his ikascumread (if the scum team had been me-ika, this LyLo would be very hard for town to win; the god-awful post he just made in which he dropped his ikascumread like a hot potato). Exhibit B is that a me-Regfan scum team would always kill Antihero over Zach when Anti's scum-reading both of us and there's an obvious excuse for his death.

I can give you Exhibits C through H too but I'd rather focus on the important stuff.

[ika]

hers n easy taks for the both of you:

point out assoicative tells that shows the other is scum with annen

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Already done that via wagon analysis and Anen's weird town read he formed on CES.

Also, CES' very early defence of Psyche when he was coming under pressure.

There are numerous interactions.

But, you know this already...right?

[Regfan]

Catching up now, this'll probably be a mess of a post, my more detailed thoughts ect. will be in my next post; I'm waiting for Zar/Mina to wake up (I think Zar will be up in an hour or two) so I can discuss my reads with them, really had nothing from them at all lately. If you want a quick summary of where my head is currently at though I'm fairly convinced Anks scum although that's largely irrelevant now given that a) Ikas not going to reconsider his wrong town read there and b) Looks like we're going for the scum inside CES/BBT. I'm leaning much more heavily towards voting BBT than CES right now; BBTs play today, his arguments and his flip of read on Ika and myself looks like him attempting to de-credit me and buddy up to Ika since he knows I was always going to be voting Ank or himself and they're the most likely scum-team right now while subsequently buddy up to Ika given that he's most likely the deciding vote here, the fact that Anks also attempting to backtrack out of his BBT scum-read and instead attempt to push a CES-Me team (ie. Voting CES) looks him wanting to avoid bussing too which makes BBT more likely scum as well. So yeah, want to talk with my team, do some rereading but I'm likely voting BBT here.

So you thought at the time that when pretty much everyone thought that theelkspeaks was fully willing to lynch elk except for BBT and me, I, as elk's scumpartner, would turn on him completely out of the blue when the chances of him

not

being lynched from it was virtually nonexistent?

Again; I think a scum-team of you-elk only chance at winning would be ruling you two out as a team and using that as an excuse to have neither of you lynched, the fact that you voted him after our conversation went; 1) You saying that his only partner could be BBT, 2) Me stating that I think you're most likely partner, 3) You voting him and then your Post 1937 reading like wanting me to eliminate You-Ek as a scum-team (And thus later on be able to claim "don't lynch Elk as BBT would be a better lynch") read as a purposeful and scum motivated tactic. I also don't buy how you'd even attempt to spin your Post 1937 as a "reaction-test" when a) At the time it read like an obvious attempt to distance from Elk and b) Right now looks like it was an attempt to end the day before people reconsidered on BBT.

I'd like to know your opinion of #1961.

My issue with those posts is less a "tonal" one and moreso that his "Ank needs to be questioned" doesn't really fit his confidence in Ika/CES being the scum-team nor does it fit with the fact that he's not questioned you about it properly. CES points it out well when he says that if he really believed an Ika/CES scum-team at daystart his play doesn't fit attempting to convince either of us to reconsider on one or both of them and lynch scum.

2032 - The fact you're even considering CES and myself as a scum team is ridiculous.

Given that my memory of the original white flag is that scum won the game via distancing (Mith/Llamarbale I think?) I didn't want to instantly dismiss the idea that it's possible the two of you could be cross-bussing, that said I'm not reading it to be the case right here and I think Anks scum with you being the most likely partner right now. I'll elaborate on what I'm scum-reading about your recent play in my next post but your reaction and attempt to push the "I've been right all game, no one has listened to me, I've played a perfect game!" doesn't read genuine at all, especially with your recent back-track on your Ika scum-read. And Ank and myself being fairly inactive the last few days is hardly a reason you haven't put forward a case / prodded us on our town-reads on the two of them; if you think they're scum you'd be pushing us to reconsider, not having shitfights and back and forths with Ika.

now rge and ank need to come in and give their imput. oh btw reg, i would like to see your vote too since you seem to be follwoing CES read

I'm getting closer to being ready to vote, want to speak with my team but right now I'm most likely voting BBT. If there's certain things you want me to reread / comment on let me know and I'll get to it after work tomorrow night. Also I know it's not MASSIVELY relevant but you're going to have to explain to me your town read on Ank because a) I'm scum-reading him from his play alone, b) I'm fairly positive you're town and I'm not reading BBT/CES as SvS (If it is then we've won the game by keeping the vote between them anyway) which means Ank would have to be scum and I'm reading BBT as a much more likely partner to him than CES (His recent flip of read on BBT/CES to move towards voting CES by attempting to link CES to me reads like avoiding bussing).

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why is everyone acting like I have given 0 reason for why I think CES/Ika are scum? I have fucking pushed for a long time and provided ample reasoning. I feel I provided more than enough and not one single fucking person has considered what I said.

Oh no, BBT is reconsidering reads in LyLo. He must be scum!

Like, every single person is scum reading me...in LyLo. This is ridiculous, fuck this game.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Explain your scum read on me Reg because you've just plucked that from the fucking sky.

[Regfan]

Why is everyone acting like I have given 0 reason for why I think CES/Ika are scum? I have fucking pushed for a long time and provided ample reasoning. I feel I provided more than enough and not one single fucking person has considered what I said.

You're missing the point. My issue isn't that you "haven't explained your scum reads on either" it's that you're not interacting with me and Ank or pushing us for why we're town reading (one or both) of the two of them, it didn't look like you're even trying to convince us that they were the scum team and given it's lylo and it's absolutely necessary for you to have both of our votes with you which is not what you're doing. Not to mention you haven't once attempted to convince me that my scum-read on Ank is wrong and given that I was most likely to vote him earlier the lack of you doing that makes no sense.

Explain your scum read on me Reg because you've just plucked that from the fucking sky.

I've touched on it, waiting to speak with my team before going into it more (Will likely elaborate in large detail tomorrow after work) but it's essentially a) I find your interactions and your read on Ank / Anks read on you to fit the best as partners here, b) I town read Ika and CES more than your early game play, c) Your reaction towards CES's push on you doesn't read genuine, d) I find your flip of read on Ika and myself very opportunistic and scum motivated, e) I don't think the way you're handling this lylo matches your reads in the game (See above).

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

hers n easy taks for the both of you:

point out assoicative tells that shows the other is scum with annen

Okay.

Psyche commits what we oldies call the Stoofer tell early on, where he lets his knowledge of BBT being scum lead him to push more strongly than appropriate. If you look at the elaborate reasoning in 143 compared to his lack of reasoning elsewhere, I think the natural conclusion is that the difference is because the reasoning is real. Later on, Psyche also seemed to assume BBT's accusation that 'marble was using tokens to scumhunt significantly was false when it was broadly true.

D2, there's almost no interaction between them apart from a fairly pointless "do something" vote by BBT. Aneninen doesn't really mention BBT all that often in his catch-ups and when he did, it was generally in the context of BBT-ika - he was suggesting that was potential SvS while pushing ika.

BBT really interacts very little with Anen on D3, especially given that he made a few comments expressing he wanted to see what the slot would do now it had an active occupant, which is even worse in view of the comment that he "just couldn't see a situation where both Anen and elk were town" which he makes as he's voting Aneninen.

[ika]

reg: its irrelevant what i think of ank if we are decidnign in betweetn BBT/CES

unless if you want to pull na ika and vote ank and force out the second 1v1 i find me stating to be pointless when i am reading ank based off meta

that being said i will look into this later i have some stuff i want to list off for BBT/CES that i have seen/think

[ika]

reg i dunno where you are but if you make another post thats not voting BBT, my vote will be snapped

[BlueBloodedToffee]

This is ridiculous.

I hope whoever is town is fucking embarrassed after my lynch.

Never seen anything like this before.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I mean, it's still very likely a CES/ika team but Reg lining up to vote me is scummy as fuck and I can't believe no-one is paying attention to it.

ika, what did you want to say to back up your ridiculous statement of a CES/BBT scum team?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Also, ika positioning for hammer vote is scummy as fuck.

Trying to bully everyone into doing what he wants them to do.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

So you're saying you think me-ika is the most likely scum team but you're just not engaging Regfan even though he's made it clear he's likely to vote you soon.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Correct.

I'm waiting for his case on me. How else do you expect me to engage him?

I mean, if Reg and Ank (especially Reg) are town they have done a horrible job in LyLo. I feel like the game has come to a standstill and we're just waiting for me to be lynched which is bullshit.

[Ankamius]

I've been kind of playing in the team PT for a bit since I'm still trying to figure out how all our opinions are so divergent from each other.

I'll deep-analyze stuff today. Bonus points to anyone using summaries that points out specifics in the meantime.

[Ankamius]

This would be so much easier if Reg was being run up because all of us agree that he's scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It would be much easier if people paid attention to why I think CES is scum and just voted him. I don't even know if people have read my points on him; had no feedback at all.

[ika]

ank you should vote reg and see what happens

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I'm waiting for his case on me. How else do you expect me to engage him?

He's posted two walls Today and all you've said about either is that his going after you is scummy and that he needs to justify his scum read on you. You can't pretend you've engaged with him to the best of your ability.

I've been kind of playing in the team PT for a bit since I'm still trying to figure out how all our opinions are so divergent from each other.

Do you mean your team's opinions by that?

Ank, I agree that Regfan would be a better lynch than me. But I basically know BBT is scum at this point and I think you should be able to tell. Just look at the way he's interacted with peopleToday - casting shade on Regfan, trying to convince ika (see e.g. 2024 or look at 2065 which is just not believable.

[ika]

so now you are calling it a BBT/reg team CES?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

ank you should vote reg and see what happens

I'm pretty sure that can't hurt but I'd rather have no messing about and 3 votes on BBT before I go to Orlandomeet on Saturday.