↑ Frogging Mollie wrote:Ok, here goes. I don't care if this gets us lynched, because it's going to help town in the long run, even if we get lynched in the short run.
Mollie and Frog, we might be two heads. We might have our own ideas. But we are one fucking town body. We are
Vanilla Town
.
When this game first started, Mollie and I decided pretty quickly on to go good cop/bad cop on people (no, I don't mean cop as in a role, just as a playstyle). Mollie offered me the option of choosing good or bad. I told her I'd be better playing the good cop role, and she agreed I was in a position to play good cop, so we agreed she would play bad cop, and I good. THIS WAS MY DECISION FIRST, AND MOLLIE AGREED.
//This sounds like a horrible idea, and the execution was even worse.
So Elusive, I must apologize for Mollie's behavior toward you, because it could have been I that was bad cop. This started at post
143. I started good cop at post
153. It continued for a bit, and we took our roles seriously. Mollie even remarked to me in gchat that I was being so strong about my good cop role that I was starting to put her in a bad position. I'm sorry Mollie <3 ... Grib even commented on this as such in
179 about how we seemed to not be reviewing things as one head. Or was this stylistic. It was. Good job Grib.
We also kind of took on this split persona with Metal, but not in quite as a divisive way. We decided early on, because of Metal's buddying up to Ika, asking pointless questions, in lieu of scumhunting, blowing up a smokescreen, etc. I tried to appease Metal from time to time, however, like when I answered Elusive's early questions, and then when I went and pulled up Yukari's ISO.
But pulling up Yukari's ISO really convinced me he is scum in this game. Yukari was way too straightforward in the prior games, both times as town. Here, in my opinion (and I'll expand on this more), they are scum and don't know how to play as scum. They claim they've evolved, and they are playing different from their past meta because of time away, etc. Bunk. I don't believe it one bit. They played so basic in prior games that this kind of evolution is not a natural town evolution for them. They drew scum, and don't know how to play it.
//Don't know why we keep having to mention why meta read is useless on us. We literally left the game for around a year because we did NOT LIKE our play last game, and before that game it had been around another year since we had played. 2 past games to look at does not a good metaread make, especially when considering the amount of time in between games, interesting how you leave that out despite us already explaining this at least twice here.. You are just flailing and reaching for a omgus case.
SO PLEASE LISTEN TO MY NEWBIE FUCKING MIND FOR A SECOND HERE.
Yukari is the two shot mafia rolecop.
First, let's look at the setup.
↑ Ankamius wrote:This game has a semi-open element to it. It works as follows:
a) One role from each pool will be randomly chosen. If there are multiples of a role, each pool will be rerolled.
b) Exactly three pools will roll a town role and exactly one will roll a mafia role.
c)
This is not the extent of the set-up. There will be roles that are not explicitly stated here.
[N] -> Usable at Night.
[D] -> Usable at Day.
[A] -> Usable Action.
[P] -> Passive Action.
---
1) 2-shot Tracker
2) 2-shot Voyeur
3) Vanilla Townie
4) Mafia 2-shot Rolecop
1) 2-shot Doctor
2) Miller
3) 2-shot Voyeur
4) Mafia Bulletproof
1) 2-shot Fruit Vendor
2) 2-shot Doctor
3) Vanilla Townie
4) Mafia Bulletproof
1) 2-shot Tracker
2) Miller
3) 2-shot Fruit Vendor
4) Mafia 2-shot Rolecop
Exactly ONE of these pools will have a scum role. So when Metal is saying this
↑ Metal Sonic wrote:It was obvious that there was a vig in the game, because
Pool 2:
4) Mafia Bulletproof
Pool 3:
4) Mafia Bulletproof
There would be a confirmed vig in the game, because mafia needed a bulletproof. Vigs are the strongest role in mafia if you are a good scumhunter.
he is fucking blatant lying. There doesn't have to be a confirmed vig in the game. Because scum could have been drawn from pool 1 or pool 4 (2 shot mafia rolecop). This is Metal poorly covering for Yukari's dumb claim.
LETS THINK ABOUT THIS FURTHER
There are three options for Yukari.
1. [] Yukari is town PR (vig as claimed)
2. [] Yukari is scum
3. [] Yukari is town non-PR
I will present some arguments and you decide which Yukari is.
In post
116 Yukari claims to not understand the setup. But more importantly, he also ASKS SCUM TO KILL HIM N1.
IF he really is a town PR, and is asking scum to kill him N1, THIS IS GOING AGAINST HIS WIN CONDITION. Then he claims town PR day 1 (after hinting an investigative roll many times). This is NOT PRODUCTIVE FOR TOWN AND NOT A TOWN MOVE.
//If you are only looking at surface reasons, then wouldn't asking in any way to be killed be against anyone's(excluding rare weird roles) win condition? Then again, someone has to get nked anyways, so it seems no where near as bad as a self-vote/hammer, and if you think we are antitown then wouldn't it be for the best that we get nked instead of a better player? Either way the point pretty obviously is for wifom @scum:
↑ Plum wrote:
Preview edit re Yukari: Maybe. Or maybe Yukari asked to be killed Night 1 because they thought that asking that, via reverse psychology, would make them less likely to get killed.
And having paid attention to your posts throughout the game we find it incredibly difficult to believe you don't already know this.
I fucking hate appeal to Occam's Razor, but I'm doing it anyway because we can appeal to it 3 times and it makes sense every time. Let me ask you all what is most logical?
[] Yukari is town PR (vig as claimed)
[] Yukari is scum
[] Yukari is town non-PR
IN MY OPINION...Occam's Razor suggests Yukari is not intentionally playing against his win condition. If he were town Vig as claimed, he would be going against his win condition by asking to be NK'd and by claiming this role D1 without any pressure whatsoever. He is also not vanilla town, because duh.
//How would claiming without be pressure be advantageous to us if we were scum? We can afford to be much more reckless as town, as we honestly could care less whether we look scummy or not, thus the slayers gambit opening. If yukari vt were to ask to get nked, and does get nked, just saved a potential kill on a real power role. If yukari vig asks for nk, scum don't know if vig or not, and even if yukari vig does get targetted for nk, this is where potential doc comes in. I don't feel like attempting to explain the full depths of this clusterduck but it should be fairly obvious. It is also something that should be more of an issue for scum to have to figure out than town. Town only needs to know if we are scum or town, whether we are vt or vig is much more important for the scum to find out. Again, we think you know this but are just reaching to try to build a bs case against us.
Anyways, we are the type to rarely make a serious play for a single reason, and all things considered without fully explaining our reasoning, we stand by our early claim.
Occam's Razor also suggests Yukari has played such a bland style of mafia over his prior town games, that this blatant change in style is too complex a move for him to be doing so on purpose. The simpler explanation is he's confused how to play scum.
//Lol.. there are still similarities to our previous cpl games. The main diff is that we are more reckless, trying to be more confident in our reads(we had bullish pegged as scum but ended up letting him and second guessing our way to town loss in lylo), and that we have a lil more mafia knowledge thanks to wiki n such. How hard is it for you to wrap your mind around the fact that playstyle can change over years, especially when the person is actively trying to improve their game? Also, dunno if you would call a 1person hydra bland but whatevs.
Occam's Razor also does not suggest Yukari was asking about other roles, asking Elusive about why bring up vig, then claiming vig as a plan all along. Instead it suggests the simpler explanation that he really was confused, found out other roles like vig were possible, then claimed vig after learning people were picking up on his investigative hints. He claimed he'd sort Metal (and others) D2. Now he's claiming he won't need to sort them D2 but instead with a night kill? Doesn't make sense. He is flailing rolecop, not knowing how to play scum straight up, because he can't.
//We have been vig the whole time, which is why elusive mentioning the vig in a game with vig not listed as possible role seemed very slightly off enough to comment on. Every subtle hint even before softclaiming has always been vig. We truthfully claimed we could sort out ms, but due to softclaim left out how. Bullet to the head N1 and by D2 he would be sorted. Also, if we were playing scum, we would not be purposefully drawing attention to ourselves with the opening gambit, nor would we be nearly so reckless, and so on.
This reachy wall of omgus is great, made us giggle.
Pretty sure you are scum, but if you are town you are soooo wrong and gonna feel silly postgame after we flip Vig.
MOVING ON TO OTHER PLAYERS:
Ika - in my opinion Ika is town. Also, in my opinion the neighborhood is real. After Metal's claim, Metal talked about posting in the neighborhood thread, and ika as well. Ika then later responded in
943 about Metal spamming the thread. I believe Ika really was sick of it. This is not scum!Ika doing this, but town!Ika instead. This also leads me to believe his take on the situation on the neighborhood, that Metal is scum. There's also no way they are both town with their "you are bad as a player comments" to each other in 939 and 944.
Metal - scum. At first I wasn't sure, even though I trusted my partner's read on Metal. But after the whole flip, Ika points above, Yukari stuff, and the recent cover up for Yukari, I am convinced Metal is scum too. I actually don't want to give this idiot any more attention, but I'll expand more if I need to (meeting is also about to start up again). Metal. You aren't winning any idiotic awards as scum or as town in this game.
WNI - Not sure, because Ika thinks WNI might be PR in his take on the neighborhood in 936. But I believe WNI's hostility toward Mollie and myself that they are scum. Metal's instistence that the whole neighborhood is town too is also reason I have my WNI doubts.
@Plum - This is why I was focused on and/or Yukari, Metal.
Bookitty is town IMO, and I love playing with her.
Hydrangea, Bookitty, Ika - those three were all having doubts about both Metal and Yukari. Please continue those doubts.
Grib, ZZZZZZZXXXXX, have been hard for me to read. Singer's slot is still town.
I implore everyone to either vote Metal, Frogmollie (yes ourselves), or Yukari.
If Yukari really is town PR (he's not), he's getting NK'd anyway, so a lynch now doesn't matter. If we get lynched instead, you all can really put stock in our reads. Mollie isn't dumb, and I'm not an idiot either, even though I'm relatively new to this game.
//This logic is horrible, please see our reply above as to why. ^ But even if we are not a pr and do get nked(def not the only possible scenario, as outlined above) wouldn't this be a good thing for nk to land on a non pr? And even better if you believe us antitown?
Fuck meeting time starting again. I could have posted so much more in depth, and can later.
still, have some maths. o.0
