STEVEN UNIVERSE MAFIA - GAME OVER

[Varsoon]

"Amethyst... Am I the cruelest creature on the planet?"

-Steven,

Tiger Millionaire

"Oh Steven, those are just words that people use to describe how they feel about you."

-Amethyst,

Tiger Millionaire

VOTECOUNT 1.17

Reasonably Rational (5):

vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, grapes, Bins, MaxwellPuckett

Thefuzzylogic99 (4):

Sonic X, grapes, Skybird, Marquis

radmann9 (3):

TunnelWarriors, Ricastle, Trench Warfare

Sonic X (2):

Beer, CooLDoG

NicCage (1):

Cheetory6

Ricastle (1):

NicCage

Beer (1):

radmann9

Not Voting (5):

Fluminator, Thefuzzylogic99, Mastin2, Ra9in9 Bull, Reasonably Rational

With 20 Alive, it takes 11 to Lynch.
Deadline

: (expired on 2015-07-13 06:50:00)

[Fro99er]

Apologies for lack of posting. I was on V/LA (but did focus on BEES when I could slip away for some computer time because that game was important to me). I'm on the road home from July 4 weekend at my in-laws and watching USA win the World Cup and being American as hell.

I'll check in tonight and for Varsoon I'll clean this up in hydra too. <3

[Trench Warfare]

WHY THE FUCK HAVE NOBODY HELPED ME LYNCH FUCKING TITUS YET?

SEIROUSLY LIKE COME ONE I COME HOME FROM POKER TO FIND OUT THIS THREAD IS STILL FUCKING OPEN?

You're not trying to policy lynch Titus, though. You're trying to policy lynch me.

That's just not acceptable, my man.

VOTE: raging bull

shut the fuck up

This was what I would have said!

if you are town knock it off dude... you going to get PL ......I will vote to policy lynch if I have to I want to try to lynch scum first but I will vote to PL you if you force my hand. Take a break , calm down and get back to scum hunting

Also give a yellow card to RB ...... both are ruining the game

You seem waaay too eager to get on a policy lynch here without actually getting on a policy lynch. Your blatant testing of the waters is pretty horrible.

tl;dr occams razor: i'm a townie and good player, my forthcomingness of my bolded claim is townie, it is a townie plan and you should work with me

I feel uncomfortable with this - I don't think Occam's Razor can be applied as neatly as you're doing here, though honestly I can see you selectively applying it as either alignment.

VOTE: Ra9in9 Bull

Thanks for playing Frogger.

I don't disagree with the vote, but I have no idea why you said this to Frogger, rather than to ika.

ZZZX here. Got distracted by marathons but skimmed last pages and wtf ika.
At least I can ead his rage to know his allignment

Do you have a history of successfully reading ika?

for entirely personal, out of game reasons

If you have a romantic interest in Bins, keep it out of the fucking thread.

I didn't read yet cus freaking marathons (:D)
But I can say that I haven't seen ika rage like this as scum ever

Actually I haven't seen Ika rage as scum AT ALL.

So he got a good town read from me. I will read the reactions and perhaps I might get something. But I cant lose the 3 days of marathon!

Have you ever seen him do it as town, though? Because if you have no idea of him doing it at all, then you can't just townread him for it.

wait which trench warfare head was that
lmao

...TSO.

*bows head*

I don't understand this game. I hand you scum on a silver platter and you just ignore it.

I typed something out before I deleted it, so let me try to be succinct here: what the fuck?

I am unable to understand your fucking tack of strolling into the thread, telling us Beer is scum, and leaving without ever making any attempt to actually convince people of your opinion. Yes, this post was made before I asked you to talk to me, but I'm fairly sure that since then you have done the. exact. same. thing.

I don't know what this is? Arrogance? Inexperience? A complete lack of social skills? Because everyone except me has basically given up on you due to the way you have made the incident so opaque that no-one gives a fuck. I still feel there's something there, so I'm asking you. And you're ignoring me completely? Fuck that.

ricastle did one very scummy thing (a more legit scumtell than cooldog's "oh you are directing night actions"), but most of his stuff otherwise would have been ok. i have a method for dealing with these kind of people

What is this thing and what is your method for dealing with "these kind of people"?

God, trying to get actual information out of you is like pulling teeth.

FTR sonic and beer spat is probs town on town. Both of them are fighting like they've got nothing to lose. With like no appeasement or backing off on either end.

I agree with this.

Look. I'm Saddie and he's Lars. It makes sense to start in an alliance with him.

He's fucking scum. He's gloating in our PT that he claimed scum and people don't believe it.

This isn't the sort of thing scum do.

I agree. But your vote was kinda on beer at the time you posted this...

Yes, yes, I know, me and Titus are the worst hydra ever for dissonance. It's a work in progress.

I'm also caught up. I think Max, mastina, Sonic X, vezo and farside are all probably town. Cheeto is null town. Marquis looks bad. I feel like radmann is just a noob. I hate CooLDoG's reads. This is a lot to absorb, I'm gonna keep thinking. Ask me things to help me get involved.

Hey TunnelWarriors, where's the Ricastle townread coming from?

So I hit this post and did a double take. Did not realize the Cage was gracing us with his presence. So I did a quit ISO there and it turns out, not much to my surprise this was there first 'content' provided thus far.

Entrance, which I missed somehow, felt kinda weirdish. Not super scummy or anything but kinda odd to quote cooldog from the last page and pretty much just agree that 13 pages is a fuckload to read. It's really not anyway but that's just difference of opinion. My real qualms lie in how they entered the thread. Which felt slightly hesistant I guess. Again, nothing super strong but felt kinda scummy regardless.

The reads are alright, though, they're basically just restatments of the most commonly townread people in the game thus far with no reasoning. Nothing quite spectacular.

Next post is literally just waffling on beerslot and going after someone for going after beer. Not great.

And the rest is just a bunch of arguably open-ended/uninteresting questions. Hope to see some followup on them once they've been answered.

Yeah, grapes is town. This is the good stuff.

Your reasoning for townreading ricastle feels like something you just pulled out of your ass as well. But, I think they're town anyway, so don't bother highlighting anywhere ricastle has been scumhunting in a game of mafia.

Can you rephrase this, though? I'm not sure if your tone is off or not here because I don't fully understand it.

And am I the only one that finds it really fucking fishy that the first person they decided to randomly iso they came away with a scumread on?

...not really? If anything, it seems better than it being a townread, since they're easier to push and give a base of credibility for scum.

That's OK Vezok. I think you are annoying too.

I'm not jumping on Beer yet because his wagon seems too convenient. I don't know how to explain it better than that right now. I do see the points against him and will most likely vote him soon. But I'm not going to rush myself just to get a town read from you. After our last game together I know you will scum read me for most of the game since that's what you did last time. I flipped town in that game, just like I will here. And to be fair, I will probably scum read you for most of the game because your play style seems scummy to me. And you also flipped town in our last game. So that does make me reluctantly feel you are probably town here.

*shudder*

Feels really appease-y and buddybuddyish and also doesn't really say anything within a decently lengthy post

I also agree with this! Grapes being on the same wavelength as me looks very good.

[Trench Warfare]

I'm done for tonight, most likely.

[Trench Warfare]

I feel very conflicted about certain reads, like Sonic. This should change in time.

[Reasonably Rational]

@Flum - Are you trying to provoke me to respond harshly to you?

@Farside - What universe to you live in where getting

concrete information

to combine with reading people's posts and actions isn't scum hunting? Your posts were the most clumsy "traps" I've ever seen. You obviously had an agenda and any response was going to result with you going "A ha! So you ADMIT you're scum!" or something roughly equally as stupid as what you actually posted. You need to go read other people for awhile and stop this ridiculous tunnel. When you are setting up posts where any response will result in you confbiasing because you apparently don't understand how logic works ... it's time to take a break from the tunneling and re-assess.

Skybird is spot on and has figured out what we're doing. Amazingly, even Trench Warfare realizes what we're doing and why and isn't tunneling us for it. If

Titus

isn't so far up my ass she could floss for me ... you probably don't have any reason to be so focused and confbiasing like a fiend on us. Seriously ... it's getting old. I only have so much tolerance for terrible "logic" and absolute empty bullshit tunnels. I barely even said anything sarcastic the last time and you complained that I had seriously hurt your feelings. If you keep up with this nonsense, the end result is going to be me clinically dissecting your posts and linking to all the logical fallacies you are making, which I expect would be unpleasant for the both of us.

I am literally

begging

you to take a step back and re-assess before you push this any further. This looks feels and smells like the usual Town v. Town crap that mars so many day ones. If you are town, you seriously need to take a step back and stop this going any further.

Please take a look at the fight between Titus and Myself in "We Didn't Playtest This" or else the day one mislynch on me in Mini 1666. There are remarkable similarities between what you're doing right now and how I'm responding as in both of those cases.

Both Cerberus and I are careful and rational. We don't make assumptions easily or quickly. We talk about stuff pretty frequently (as everyone will see after the game in our hydra PT). We both have contempt for people who actually believe they are so good at this game they can actually make accurate reads on day one, especially

early

on day one. Neither of us feel there are enough known data points on day one to have strong scum reads on day one, unless someone makes a slip (as Beer supposedly did ... and why we would like Vezok to actually make the case concisely for us to actually be able to evaluate). Both of us do feel that people can be fairly obviously townie on day one ... but there's not a lot of upside to the town for us to make a list to help scum sort through all the players in the game to try and decide whom to kill.

As far as I can tell, your case against us is "They wouldn't make a reads list when I lazily demanded they do so ... and then when I made two posts with questions where any response could be called scummy, they actually responded anyway despite noticing my clumsy trap ... so they must be scum!"

So far your scum hunting skills, at least on day one, at least in this game, seem like they have been honed to near perfection ... if your intent is to lynch a town asset.


Love, albeit annoyedly,
Drixx

[Trench Warfare]

We both have contempt for people who actually believe they are so good at this game they can actually make accurate reads on day one, especially

early

on day one.

I disagree with this pretty heavily. I can see why you think it, I just disagree.

[farside22]

I'll be happy to just link games that Drixx actually scum hunts in if that will make my point against the rational players, but I know some don't care about meta.

[farside22]

You know I may just do it since the jerk part of the hydra is back.....I'll sleep on it since I can't vote.

[Reasonably Rational]

We both have contempt for people who actually believe they are so good at this game they can actually make accurate reads on day one, especially

early

on day one.

I disagree with this pretty heavily. I can see why you think it, I just disagree.

I have had an occasional game where I figured out the scum team really quickly, but those are few and far between. I have yet to see anyone on this site who consistently figures out the scum team on day one. Someone will occasionally get one or two right in a reads list, but I have yet to bump into someone who can actually discern between whatever it is that Cerberus and I both do that gets us scum read and

actual

scum play. If you know of such a person, please let me know after the game. I'll want to look at their games and then pester them with questions to learn what they're doing.

I think both of us are well aware that trying to stay strictly rational, using timeless decision theory and trying to use Bayesian analysis and reasoning probably leave us open to missing some things.

You might recall that I also review games throughout, looking for the places where scum have to adjust their "narrative" for one reason or another. In fact, I think I pushed a case based upon that sort of read against the cop who cleared me in WDPT, yeah?

We're both still getting better. I would list day one as my weakest spot 10 times out of 10. Any advice you can offer would be appreciated.

Love, now and forever,
Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

I'll be happy to just link games that Drixx actually scum hunts in if that will make my point against the rational players, but I know some don't care about meta.

You know I may just do it since the jerk part of the hydra is back.....I'll sleep on it since I can't vote.

I approach every game as its own thing. I'm always trying to improve. Feel free to show me where I was playing better earlier and have since changed away from something that was successful, please.

I'm sorry you feel like I'm a jerk, but I'm not going to pretend that your really bad logic is actually any good. I don't want to hurt your feelings, but that exchange was cringe worthy.

You asked how understanding their roles more fully would help in scum hunting. I explained that scum hunting isn't just one single thing, but a combination of things, and you came back and said that I had somehow scum claimed because one single play on Cerberus' part wasn't going to be enough for us to be sure someone was scum? Really?

[Reasonably Rational]

Love, even though you are mad at me,
Drixx

[Ricastle]

I don't disagree with the vote, but I have no idea why you said this to Frogger, rather than to ika.

Ika was raging and Frogger was just sitting in the middle of it doing nothing. After things calmed down he sunk back into the shadows without contributing shit. As far as I know that is very unlike him.

[Marquis]

RR and Farside are both town. idk exactly what's going on there but quit it.

trench (titus/tso in case i mixed them up) makes me incredibly wary. i want to see more tso. titus is currently leaning slightly scum for me.

frogika is townish. i hope ika calms down and goes back to his old style. right now if they're town it's a bit of dickery that gives scum an excuse to wisen their mislynch pool.

[Trench Warfare]

We both have contempt for people who actually believe they are so good at this game they can actually make accurate reads on day one, especially

early

on day one.

I disagree with this pretty heavily. I can see why you think it, I just disagree.

I have had an occasional game where I figured out the scum team really quickly, but those are few and far between. I have yet to see anyone on this site who consistently figures out the scum team on day one. Someone will occasionally get one or two right in a reads list, but I have yet to bump into someone who can actually discern between whatever it is that Cerberus and I both do that gets us scum read and

actual

scum play. If you know of such a person, please let me know after the game. I'll want to look at their games and then pester them with questions to learn what they're doing.

I think both of us are well aware that trying to stay strictly rational, using timeless decision theory and trying to use Bayesian analysis and reasoning probably leave us open to missing some things.

You might recall that I also review games throughout, looking for the places where scum have to adjust their "narrative" for one reason or another. In fact, I think I pushed a case based upon that sort of read against the cop who cleared me in WDPT, yeah?

We're both still getting better. I would list day one as my weakest spot 10 times out of 10. Any advice you can offer would be appreciated.

Love, now and forever,
Drixx

There are some things where I would caution against figuring out the whole scumteam day one. First, we're supposing only one scumteam. We could have multiple scumteams or serial killers. Without knowing the borders of the setup, it's near impossible to call out a team.

Yet, having one or two really strong reads it's 100% possible to be right on those. Sometimes you get inside someone's head and just know them that well. Day 1 is the weakest day for behavioral reads but if someone has a pattern they always push as scum, it would be worth pursuing. Sometimes you and I get too caught up in being right and just what is "good enough" and that this is the "best scum read ZOMG they have to be scum" and not looking at what's possible or multiple scums indeed. Playing in a few hydras has taught me this. Yet, my townreads tend to be dead bang accurate. I've found, although the candy of catching scum is alluring, that day 1 should be spent not voting town. We may mislynch still, but scum cannot take out vocal players with unpopular opinions that are valuable in the late game.

Scum will likely be the most defensive of each other day 1, as they have next to no information regarding reads. So Drixx, who are you townreading? Let's see if we can PoE this.

Oh Marquis, hi. You want more TSO, feel free to ask him something. Just acknowledging you.
~Titus

[farside22]

RR and Farside are both town. idk exactly what's going on there but quit it.

trench (titus/tso in case i mixed them up) makes me incredibly wary. i want to see more tso. titus is currently leaning slightly scum for me.

frogika is townish. i hope ika calms down and goes back to his old style. right now if they're town it's a bit of dickery that gives scum an excuse to wisen their mislynch pool.

But mom!!

Grumble

Fwiw I know you can have good reads but his whole freekin chase is over claims.
I just see busy work to look active.

[Trench Warfare]

Oh I forgot one thing. The cop being pushed for "knowing too much" isn't as terrible as you'd think. The cop knowing too much and getting new information means that he must change information for what they 100% know to be true. Scum and cops both leave hints they know someone else is town, and most players shouldn't be leaving those hints. If someone claims cop, you should look to see if their "adjustments" are related to who they claim to have checked. That's how I'd look into a cop claim. There's two major camps of how to use cop checks and knowing which the player subscribes to helps.

[Trench Warfare]

RR and Farside are both town. idk exactly what's going on there but quit it.

trench (titus/tso in case i mixed them up) makes me incredibly wary. i want to see more tso. titus is currently leaning slightly scum for me.

frogika is townish. i hope ika calms down and goes back to his old style. right now if they're town it's a bit of dickery that gives scum an excuse to wisen their mislynch pool.

But mom!!

Grumble

Fwiw I know you can have good reads but his whole freekin chase is over claims.
I just see busy work to look active.

Farside, Drixx and Cerb both tend to be on my style of wavelength. They are looking at what is possible. By having the double voters vote and test the range of their abilities, it tells them about their alignment. Are they trying to hide certain abilities? Why are they doing that?

The whole thing is getting into people's heads starting from known facts. You work from an emotional place, so such things look like busy work to you. Scum tend to have a certain range of behavior, and town another. Which are the double voters displaying?

I see some of your emotional shit as "busywork" because I don't get it, so I'm giving you a wide berth because I always scumread you.

~Titus

[TheFuzzylogic99]

Trench
I didnt want a Pl , I just wanted Ika to calm down and play .... I just wNted to put alittle pressure on RB and hope that it would help Ika take a moment to tethink things. It was more of a out of game / ooc comment than anything. Thats how it was intended to beatleast though I guess maybe it didnt come off that way

[Reasonably Rational]

Frankly my strongest town read right now is Farside. I think Farside is generally pretty smart, in my experience, and the posts involved in the push against us just don't make sense as scum posts, at all. I'm reasonably sure Vezok is town although I'm irritated at him for being a grump about us wanting to make sure the game knew how his role functioned, as much as possible {There are edge cases where he may not actually be what he has claimed, but we made him confirm his claim so if there is deviation later, he's caught}, and we're also irritated at him for not answering us about Beer.

After that, I'm not really confident enough in any other reads to say for certain that I think someone is town. I'd like to see some substance posts from a few people to help me read them a little better. Posts by Flum that don't have to do with us would be really helpful, for example.


~Drixx

[Bins]

I'm in the USA for 2 days

The McDonalds here are weird

[Marquis]

I'm in the USA for 2 days

The McDonalds here are weird

you guys have MCLOBSTER tho
dont talk to me about "weird"

[Marquis]

though i will say ur nanaimo sundaes are intense

[TheFuzzylogic99]

I think FS is prob town. He seems genuine in his wording. plus his push atleast to me seem more like town who think they have found scum than scum trying to mislynch . I don't know Far that good and don't know his meta but from a player pov he seems town

Grapes overall defensiveness makes me concern as if he trying to hide something. At first push on him he seemed to be overly defensive without reason. It was not like I was really pushing on him that hard. I still leaning slightly scum on him
Can anyone really say that grapes has not been overly defensive

I have no idea what to make of RR. They made a few good points about Grapes and Vezo roles and needing info. Than again the push is going no where and its not like either one is a must lynch at this point, I am really on the fence about RR. I could go either way on RR right now.

[Fluminator]

Marq, what would you say if I said I now know how to read you, and how nervous are you now?

MARQ, DON'T IGNORE ME YOU NINNY.