Mini 1701 - Modified Werewolf 13er

[Zoronos]

Hmmm.... I feel like I've missed everything Tony has said this game.
Tony - Can you give us your stances on the scum group?

[Keyser Söze]

To be honest, my first thought when TonyMontana posted was that he was opportunistic scum, jumping on the easy target. 15 pages of analysis and posts to catch up with, and he only focussed on public enemy #1, Boonskiies:

Up to page 15 note:
Boonski has been making a lot of posts, yet have been saying little of note.

I think the person who vowed himself out of the game was onto something....

VOTE: Boonskiies

If you ain't scum, you're anti-town

But due to the amount of people who have also scum-read/anti-town read Boonskiies' slot makes me re-evaluate my read on TonyMontana. Since then, TonyMontana has widened his focus on other players.

[redFF]

@mod u missed my absta vote in ur vc

[absta101]

@Redff - Can you answer my question; why is my case very weak?

[redFF]

Because its barely there man. I dunno how i can be clearer. People should hold off on the absta votes til we get a votecount btw.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Up to page 15 note:
Boonski has been making a lot of posts, yet have been saying little of note.

15 pages and that's all you have? Are you kidding me? When you finish your catch up can I get a full reads list please.

vote:absta

for tunneling with no case, accusing others of posting fluff while doing that very thing and general anti-town sentiment

I would hardly say Absta was tunneling. Also, I think there are a lot more people than Absta that can be accused of attacking Boon with shit reasons so I'm curious why you chose Absta out of everyone?

UNVOTE:

Intent to put absta101 at L-2

I don't get it.

533 - This sounds like you're voting someone based on play-style and not because you think he is scummy. How convenient that the only opinion you have to share right now is a scum read on someone that everyone else and their dog are scum reading.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Boon is leaning very heavily on his VI stereotype this game. His play seems focused on generating noise rather than on finding scum. His 'Ah ha!' self vote -> scum read felt very contrived / non-genuine.

I can agree with this, I didn't like the self-vote and following posts either but I highly doubt we're playing with scum!Boon this game.

This needs more votes;

VOTE: Tony

[Keyser Söze]

This needs more votes;

VOTE: Tony

I may support this

wagon

later - but I need to look through your earlier answers, then at Banakai/absta101's ISO's first.


I felt your vote reluctantly went on absta101, then it came off him very fast - but I'll need to re-read that exchange.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, I can see where you're coming from.

I was reading Absta vs Redff and I don't see that as scum vs scum at all and if I were to vote between those two I think I would vote Red - which caused me to have doubts about my Absta scum read.

Add on to this that Tony is scummy as fuck and we have ourselves a nice scum lynch.

[Bulbazoor]

How is red causing you to doubt scum read scum?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Did you read my last post?

[Bulbazoor]

I did. WHy are you sure tony is scum?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Wow.

[Bulbazoor]

How is he scummy as fudge?

[Banakai]

I actually posted what I wrote about boon for all the people saying I didnt...

[Banakai]

Also I'm fucking confused who I should be voting.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Also I'm fucking confused who I should be voting.

Who are you considering and why?

[Kmd4390]

Absta, on Page 13 you said Woody was your only scum read for lack of scumhunting. What was your read on Vinkah and TonyMontana at that time? Do you feel they'd scumhunted better than Woody?

Boon, when you first came up with your reads, you said something is weird about Bulb. Have you played with him before. Also, making BBT your strongest town read just until you sort him seems weird to me. It has a forced vibe to it. And you don't honestly believe that Keyser was trying to get you replaced for using the Mod's color, right?

BBT, why does this being an open setup make Woody town? And your confidence isn't my issue. It's the fact that you were voting and pushing Woody, yet you seemed to think that three scum were voting him. It should be obvious why that's an issue.

 If you agree that there are bad votes on the Woody wagon; why have you done nothing about it?

I'm voting Absta. He was one of the bad votes.

What you're essentially saying is that I should stop all scum hunting outside of the person I am voting which is preposterous.

That's not at all what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that if the scum are ALL voting Woody, he's probably town. You seemed to believe this is the case, yet you stayed on Woody. Unvoting Woody there wouldn't show a lack of confidence like you seem to be implying. It would show basic logic. Even if you simply said "if I'm wrong about Woody, these votes look bad", it would show the same logic. But you were pushing the two together. I mean, maybe you thought someone was bussing but I didn't get that impression either.

Absta wanting to give Woody's replacement a "chance to redeem the slot" makes me question whether he had a genuine scum read.

Boon, so was your initial Keyser scum read fake then? If so, why did you pick him and what is your real read on him? 442 is baaaaaaaaad. First of all, Keyser has to be scum for associatives to work, yet you voted RedCoyote. Second, you just implied you no longer think Keyser is scum. So, essentially you are voting RedCoyote for no reason.

he [Boon] didn't answer why his reads changed so suddenly

Except he did. He said it's because it's so early and his Day 1 reads are never strong.

Boon, you keep listing me as a scum lean. Any reason why? And I see on your reads list, you still scum read Keyser, so can you explain a little more what you meant by "using him to insert yourself" into the game? On Page 19, you said you see where Haschel is coming from. How? He didn't explain any of those reads.

Zoro, you said Redcoyote and Boon are probably scum. What do you think about Boon trying to push Keyser to vote Redcoyote as soon as he replaced in? (Ignore this if by "red" you meant redff)

I don't like Boon's self vote. It seems like he went out of his way to push that self voting used to be a trust tell for him and then his comment about rarely being lynched when he self votes feels like he never intended to get himself lynched, so what was the point? It feels like a big AtE game to me. Why is no one talking about the fact that he just claimed after putting himself at L-3ish? When Woody claimed, people were upset that he reduced the power role pool for scum if he's town. Boon does it and no one bats an eye. It might be worth lynching Boon over equally scummy players just so we don't have a third claim today.

Redcoyote, I don't see the reach on my part. The tone didn't seem as genuinely upset as he tried to appear. Redff is also a weak scum read at worst for me. At least Boon, Absta, and BBT are scummier.

Is having a "giant stick" up my anus alignment-indicative? 

We need more info on this stick. Just how giant is it? What kind of stick? Does it vibrate? Is it always there or do you insert it only when you come online to play mafia? How long have you had it? Can you take three at a time? There's just not nearly enough info about this stick. But the most important thing is how did Boon know it was there?

Keyser, what is your read on BBT?

Redff is annoyed about Woody claiming. He is so annoyed that he proceeds to insert some 'lols' into his post. I don't know about you, but when I'm annoyed something has happened, I don't lol about it. This lacks 'sincerity' to use your term.

Redcoyote, is the above quote reaching?

Unvote, Vote Boon

[Zoronos]

Zoro, you said Redcoyote and Boon are probably scum. What do you think about Boon trying to push Keyser to vote Redcoyote as soon as he replaced in? (Ignore this if by "red" you meant redff)

RedFF, not RedCoyote.

[absta101]

@Kmd

- I don't remember my reads on Vinkah and Tony at the time; I don't think I had reads on them, they hardly posted. The difference is, Woody was posting a lot while showing no interest in scum-hunting.

[Kmd4390]

Fair

[Haschel Cedricson]

Haschel, can you explain 'sincerity'. What makes something sincere on an online forum?

Unfortunately no; it's very much a gut thing. It's like in F2F Mafia where you try to not only analyse what people say, but how you feel they're saying it.[/quote]

So I'm scum because you think I presented a bad case early game? That's great, if only it were scum who presented bad cases eh? Further, if you think my case was so bad, why is it that you appear to have no problem with a single person who followed me onto that wagon? I mean, the natural thought progression here is 'Wow, BBT's case on Woody is terrible so why the hell is everyone piling onto that wagon?' You don't seem to follow that thought process through to the end.

It's not just presenting a bad case; it's the strawmanning and (perceived) intentional misinterpretations of other people's arguments. Your latter two sentences are fair points, though; I'll try to see if I can reread that section of the game tomorrow.

Redff is annoyed about Woody claiming. He is so annoyed that he proceeds to insert some 'lols' into his post. I don't know about you, but when I'm annoyed something has happened, I don't lol about it. This lacks 'sincerity' to use your term.

I disagree. When I see somebody do something incredibly stupid I tend to stop using capital letters and preface my post with "ahahaha". It's not an alignment thing at all and I am legitimately baffled that multiple people think it is.

I'm sorry, you say my suspicion of Absta is fake and then proceed to not explain why you think it's fake. I posted about his joining on the wagon, if you have a problem with it, you should bring it up.

I think it's fake because you attacked him for asking something that he absolutely was right to ask. He changed his stance on Woody based on a back-and-forth they had; that seems like a legitimate reason to change one's mind about a read.

Need to quote this part;

He also sets up a false dichotomy:

He goes against me; saying he disagrees with my reasoning and it feels forced. This would imply he thinks I'm scum, no?"

What? No, it doesn't imply that at all. Why would you say it did?

Well, if someone finds your reasoning to be forced this would imply they think you are scum, no? Townies don't force their reasoning, scum do. So, yeah, I think this would imply he thinks I am scum, I mean, you seem to imply this in your own post just a little further down;

I agree with his point about BBT's attacks on Woody being forced

Which would suggest you also believe forced reasoning to come from scum.

Can you clarify your problem please?

Townies force their reasoning all the time. Townies can tunnel, and once they go down that rabbit hole there can be a tendency to shoehorn in their suspects posts any way they can to bolster their theory. When somebody is forcing an argument, the question then becomes WHY are they doing it? Is it because they are looking for a case? Or is it because they are trying to make up a case from whole cloth?

Also in post 305 he says "

The werewolf

is probbably not posted enough comments to get noticed by me". Anybody see anything weird about that? Like the attitude that we're only looking for one person and not a partnership?

This is a

possible

scum-slip by Banakai, highlighted by Haschel Cedricson, noted.

Meh, missed this from Haschel's post so will address it here. This is not a scum slip, given we know there are 3 werewolves Banakai would still be 'looking for two wolves', not one. Which completely negates this 'slip'.[/quote]

People seem to have missed the point I was trying to make here. I don't think it was a "scumslip" about the game setup or anything like that. What I meant was that today the town is looking for three people working together. The scum are only looking for one person they can get a lynch on. It's not a damning statement on its own, but I think it reflects his mindset and when combined with everything else I pointed out is suggestive.

I actually posted what I wrote about boon for all the people saying I didnt...

Are you referring to 499? Sorry, I missed that because it doesn't look like a case at all. I see a question, followed by six quotes paraphrased to be insulting with no actual explanation of why they are more likely to come from scum than from town. If you have a case, make it; don't draw a bunch of dots and ask us to connect them for you.

@Mod: My vote is also not on the most recent VC.

Absta, on Page 13 you said Woody was your only scum read for lack of scumhunting. What was your read on Vinkah and TonyMontana at that time? Do you feel they'd scumhunted better than Woody?

STRAWMAN SIGHTED

Why is no one talking about the fact that he just claimed after putting himself at L-3ish? When Woody claimed, people were upset that he reduced the power role pool for scum if he's town. Boon does it and no one bats an eye.

I don't recall him claiming.

Fixed.

[Kmd4390]

Not sure if you're intentionally misrepping me or if that would be too blatant...

@zoro

Who do you feel is scum, and can you explain why?

Right now my only scum read is Woody due to his lack of scum-hunting.

He could be an anti-town player but for now he is my top scum read.

I'm looking into RC but I need him to talk more first, I don't like his first post at all.

K, whatever. I'm already kinda done with this game. I have absolutely no interest in this game anymore. I replaced in because I like Shinobi as a mod, and I needed another game to play in, but this is kind of ridiculous.

VOTE: Boonskiies

Just a villager

.

[Haschel Cedricson]

I feel there is a tacit "...despite being active" at the end of absta's sentence and therefore Woody and Vinkah/Tony were not really comparable.

As for Boonskiies, I certainly recall him

claiming

to claim. I'm not convinced he actually did.

[Shinobi]

bump