Mini 1701 - Modified Werewolf 13er

[Keyser Söze]

I'd hardly call my read passionate/determined when haschel basically forced me to make a case

I think you need to explain your scum-read on Boonskiies one more time, I don't feel you believe in it...

Scum-slip:

I think banakai is a lovely dude with a great personality. He i

s

very attra

c

tive. I look

u

p to him and hope to

m

eet him someday.

[Kmd4390]

Haschel, I gave thoughts on Ban about 47 hours ago:

Ban - I have nothing to suggest he is scum except weak gut and sheeping other people's points. I have even less to suggest he is town

He was placed in my "maybe scum if my reads are wrong" pile. Since that, I don't care for his dancing around "obvious reasons" on Boon but I like the case he finally presented. Basically, Boon's flip could play a huge role in which way my later Ban read goes. If I had to pick a 3 man scum team right now, he wouldn't be on it. If Boon were to flip town, he probably would. So basically he still fits into where I had him on my reads list.

[Bulbazoor]

First
Banakai starts out in his first post of the game which is post 186. Ban, I have a question for you at this point of the game, why did you not vote woody on your first post when you were hinting a scumread at him? Why did you not comment on the others who were spectating and talking? There were plenty of facts you could have gathered from this conversation. Also, you were hinting at a scumlean at BlueTofee in that post, so why did you never vote him or woody in that post either?

Second, you make post 193 is a null tell at best. Activity does not mean a thing on here. Scum can do it and so can town.

Posts 195 and 198 are next. They have no substance to support the idea that red is town. He barely even tries to back it up by saying " oh my only reason is that his posts are town posts". That is not good reasoning. What exactly makes his posts reek of town and not just scum trying to ride the tide?

Do not know what to make of 200 honestly.

Again, 257 shows barely any explaining. He just says that he does see something fishy, but does not say anything to back it up.

I like his post 305 because it is very consistent with his reads and thoughts in this game. That post raises my read of him but he is still bothering me overall because of his previous posts.

To 317 and 321... Ban you really are confusing me now! First you said he made good questions and now you switch to calling his posts fluff and following the bandwagons?

382.. Really? So first you accuse another player of sheeping and you are also sheeping? Not liking this at all.

472 and 473... Your posts suck dude. First you say one dude pulled off the same trick as another but have totally different criteria for judging both of them? That is absurd. Why not just post your case if you had it ready?

499... Is scummy. Part of that post reeks of " Oh no I will try to discredit all of boon statements". The rest is filler and stating the obvious.

590.. Why are you confused about who you should be voting? If you scumread boon, vote him. If you are considering them as votes just vote them. There is nothing wrong when voting a scumread.

I see the error with the post 642. There is only one way you can self as town where it would be the optimal strat. It would be when there is no other wagons at deadline.

He seems to be making good points about boon. But I think I made my mind up.
VOTE: Banakai

[Banakai]

I'd hardly call my read passionate/determined when haschel basically forced me to make a case

I think you need to explain your scum-read on Boonskiies one more time, I don't feel you believe in it...

Scum-slip:

I think banakai is a lovely dude with a great personality. He i

s

very attra

c

tive. I look

u

p to him and hope to

m

eet him someday.

Oh I certainly believe in it now. Just at the time of making it I wasn't so sure if I wanted to vote boon along with others or try to get people to help on redff or even vote someone else, but after making it I realised how ridiculous hes been.

[Kmd4390]

I thin

k

banakai is a lov

e

l

y

dude with a great per

s

onality. H

e

is ve

r

y attractive. I look up to him and hope to meet him someday.

Dude you just exposed the daycop's guilty on you.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Haschel, I gave thoughts on Ban about 47 hours ago:

I know.

[Bulbazoor]

I thin

k

banakai is a lov

e

l

y

dude with a great per

s

onality. H

e

is ve

r

y attractive. I look up to him and hope to meet him someday.

Dude you just exposed the daycop's guilty on you.

Is this a joke?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

i still like the absta wagon, but i could really dig a BTT one

Oh, really? Because this is your very first mention of me this entire game.

i like dr whos posts i realize i had a scum read and vote on woody but i also said he could be scrub over defensive town, and he did replace out for a really dumb reason

Wait, so because you gave a 'could be scum, could be town' wishy-washy read on Woody that somehow removes the accountability of your read? I don't think so.

snip

All I can say for the Woody case is that I pay close attention to the words people use. When somebody says they 'didn't notice something', to me, that implies they were paying attention (read: reading) but missed a particular issue.

For example, Person A is looking at a painting, person B says 'Oh, look at that dog in the corner' and person A responds with 'Oh yeah, I didn't notice that'. Person A was looking at the painting (reading) but didn't see the dog in the corner. Woody was reading but claims he didn't notice the wagon building up on Haschel. Crappy example but I hope it explains my point.

Your second point is based around an idea that I'm scared to take responsibility for any potential mislynches and that's simply not the case.

bbt i don’t know if u answered this and i know it is far back but could u answer why u wanted a lynch 3 real life days into a 14 day in game day. it is weird to me

Firstly, just because you have 14 days it doesn't mean you should use them. Far too often on this site people play right until the very end of the day; there are numerous problems with this. One is flash-wagons as town scramble to try and find the best lynch and another is it creates apathy. Nobody wants to go back and reread a 40 page D1; keeping Day's short but filled with content is optimal play for town.

i didn’t like how overly aggressive he was in rvs and first 2-3 pages, felt forced or like he was trying establish his presence/dominance of discussion. i mean he tries to start 2 wagons in the first 2 pages. (first 5 iso)

Aggressiveness is not alignment indicative.

the haschel wagon (iso 4-15)
this vote and push has no case, i understand its still early days, but he asks people why they won’t join the wagon, why they didn’t join it earlier, what they thought of the wagon but posts 0 case, you can check his iso. i know he'll bust out an excuse of how it was an early game reaction test but this early play points to a bigger problem.

What? How dare you claim the RVS wagon I tried to push had no basis. You already try to provide my reasoning as if that somehow limits my options; it's what I do. In every single game. Ever. Again, not alignment indicative.

these questions has been a theme of his posting all game. read his posts and there are so many basic questions, like a child who keeps asking why no matter what you say. it is a forced and vague way to post, scummy.

these posts are essentially designed to look like he is "charging the town forward", '"keeping everyone open and in line" but how much do they do that really, how pro town is it really under the surface? he has been doing this all game.[/quote]
Even if this was all my ISO contained; you would still have no point. What you're arguing is 'BBT is too town to be town'. I mean, I could go ahead and quote a series of similar looking questions from anybody who is decently active in this game.

this is probably just me but if someone has a town read on me i don’t ask why, i just nod my head and agree because I obviously know why I’m town

It's just you. Scum like to accept town reads without asking why, they don't care, as long as they're town read. I like to know why people are town reading me and what their possible motivations might be for doing so.

he then went hard on the woody wagon, which i did too, so i can’t really say much about that tbh, all i will say is i was wrong about woody too but his posting just reeks of mafia trying to get a lynch on a bad player

And we're different because? You can't attack me for something, claim you did it as well, and then still call me scum. How are we different?

This is not coming from a town mindset.

i don’t get his rc vote and push, because at that point of the game (post 337) vinkah and tonymontana had provided less content, than red coyote and his vote was based on lurking

You've obviously never played with RC. He is kind of a priority for me to sort out; he is the best player in this game by a long way.

However, now that you think he is town-aligned, do you still dislike absta101's approach on WoodyWoodpecker, or do you think he had genuine reasons for concern?

My town-read on you has faded, I am now currently suspicious of a connection between yourself-absta101 vs redFF.

Keyser, can you take those words back that you just rammed down my throat? Can you quote where I said I was town reading Absta?

I would like everybody in their next post to give their thoughts on Banakai. Multiple sentences are preferred.

Wasn't a fan of 186. I especially didn't like his reasoning for providing no reads/questions for anybody outside of Woody/myself.

I didn't understand where the 'Red is town' read came from in 195 and I didn't understand why it was posted there with no context at all.

I didn't like 257 either; his reasoning for why Red was town was awful. He made a good point in 305 about scum laying low; I think that is a valid strategy for scum with the amount of strong voices in this game. He also starts to backpedal on his redff town read now that people are questioning it; his whole redff read is weird in general and I'm not too sure what to make of it.

321 is generic, this is scummy because scum tend to be ambiguous and try not to commit to any read too early (which he would be hesitant of doing especially after his redff read).

472 is the start of his Boon read. This would have been so easy for scum to do so it's difficult to decipher whether this is coming from town or scum.

491 is just awful. It doesn't even need explaining.

After this though, his read on Boon slowly becomes more clear and I can understand why people read Boon the way they do. It does make it difficult to work out thier alignment though. His most recent case is a lot better (wrong, but better) and I kind of want to town read him based purely on the effort of the post (which is bad reasoning, but, meh).
TL;DR - I think Banakai has a decent chance of flipping scum. Would compromise on him if I can't achieve whichever of my scum reads I decide to focus on and push.

Your response that those three players weren't necessarily scum even though you disliked their votes is fair.

Given this was the whole basis of your scum read on me, I'm concerned you conceded so easily. I mean, I thought that was a fairly obvious explanation and I was somewhat annoyed at even having to type it out.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I have too many scum reads.

I need some town reads.

People are linking me with both Absta AND redff and I find that absurd. Whatever you need to make your read believable I guess.

[Kmd4390]

I thin

k

banakai is a lov

e

l

y

dude with a great per

s

onality. H

e

is ve

r

y attractive. I look up to him and hope to meet him someday.

Dude you just exposed the daycop's guilty on you.

Is this a joke?

Yes.

Haven't read BBT's huge post yet. Going in to work now

[Boonskiies]

VOTE: Banakai

Let's lynch it, fellas!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That change in read...

[Keyser Söze]

Boon for obvious reasons

this is exactly why I'm town. Why the fuck would I be "obvious" as scum? I'm never fucking obvious as scum.

my Banakai read is changing

.

Reads can change, but now we've seen two drastic read changes from Boonskiies. First me, now Banakai. Is this another test? Faux read? Or genuine?

Can I have an update of your Town/Null/Scum League Table.

[Keyser Söze]

Keyser, can you take those words back that you just rammed down my throat? Can you quote where I said I was town reading Absta?

Let me look back to see why I thought you town-read him.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I would like some time to sort out Absta/redff and am therefore pursuing someone else who I think could be scum.

I'll save you the time; this was my last stated read on Absta.

[Keyser Söze]

This was it:

I unvoted because I didn't feel it was likely to be scum vs scum and I felt that redff had a higher chance of being scum than Absta.

After you made this comment I

presumed

you thought absta-redFF was town-town or town-scum, not scum-scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Your bad.

[Keyser Söze]

...so do you think they are scum-scum?

Or unsure-unsure?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Unsure/unsure.

Hence 'I'm gonna need more time to sort them out.'

Though, Redff's recent posting was pretty awful. I feel like the only person who genuinely thinks I am scum and has any decent reasoning is Haschel and that's making it difficult to work out who is bad town and who is scum that is attacking me.

[Banakai]

Boon for obvious reasons

this is exactly why I'm town. Why the fuck would I be "obvious" as scum? I'm never fucking obvious as scum.

my Banakai read is changing

.

Reads can change, but now we've seen two drastic read changes from Boonskiies. First me, now Banakai. Is this another test? Faux read? Or genuine?

Can I have an update of your Town/Null/Scum League Table.

I wouldn't consider this a "drastic change" on his part. To be fair he posted that I was town near when he started posting, then during the middle posted what you quoted (his read is changing) and now he thinks I'm scum. I've made a similar drastic change with Redff. It's not like his read on you which changed like 6 times.

[absta101]

@BBT

I also think Boon is likely to be town. He isn't this bad as scum, his scum game is somewhat decent.

This is WIFOM. Scum-Boon could simply be playing to his town-meta in order to make you and others who have played with him think that he is indeed town. I mean, you argue that it would be bad scum play on his part to do this but I think it's the opposite. Scum-Boon would have to take into account that if he doesn't play to his usual meta as town, you would be suspicious of him. Considering this, I don't think you can town read him for his play; at best you can have him as null.

Have I convinced you or do you still have Boon as a town read?
--

I was reading Absta vs Redff and I don't see that as scum vs scum at all and

if I were to vote between those two I think I would vote Red

- which caused me to have doubts about my Absta scum read.

I unvoted because I didn't feel it was likely to be scum vs scum and

I felt that redff had a higher chance of being scum than Absta

.

This is where the confusion is. You say you have me and redff as unsure/unsure and yet you seem to see redff as scummy or at least

more scummy

than me.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Correct, I don't see the confusion.

If I had to vote between the two of you I would vote Redff because he is the one most likely to flip scum.

Boon is still town. I'm reading him based off of his play in this game; I doubt he would switch it up just to gain a town read off of one person and earn a handful of scum reads from others.

[absta101]

Well he started playing like this from the start so he wouldn't have known how many of you would town read him. All scum-boon knows is that "

i've played with 'these' players before and they know my town meta

". This gives him the scum motivation to play his town-meta as scum. Once you agree with the scum motivation, you can't think that he is town for his play.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Of course I can. Even if I didn't know Boon, if someone changed their reads on a whim and with very little reasoning I would still find it highly unlikely that that slot would be scum.

It draws too much attention. Scum do not take those kinds of risks.

[absta101]

I think it's null at best. Thinking someone is town based on changing their reads on a whim, questionable.