Touhou UPick 4 - [Aborted]

[pieguyn]

it was pretty obvious zmuffin wasn't being serious here

please don't speak for me

gomen, gomen. any scum reads so far?

[Sakura Hana]

if she thought zmuffin's -4 was a strong enough reason to read him as town that I'm scum for voting him, the parenthetical feels out of place.

It does because i realized the -4 made him town after i made that post...

Well either way your scumread on me doesn't matter since i'll become conf town tomorrow, so im just gonna ignore the rest of that blatantly scumpainting post and keep voting you.

[zMuffinMan]

it was pretty obvious zmuffin wasn't being serious here

please don't speak for me

gomen, gomen. any scum reads so far?

yes

[Sky_Paladin]

I'd expect town early game would take more of a hard stance either way (ex. explicitly calling Relentless out for not having a case).

This seems to contrast strongly against your reasoning in your post this page against Sakura. Here, you're pinging me for not 'taking a hard stance', whereas your poking Sakura because she's 'too hard'. We're less than 24 hours in to day one so I, personally, can't see how somebody is 'too hard' or 'too weak' when half the player base has yet to post, so I'm wondering how you might come to this.

Relentless displayed strange behavior (changing their vote in RVS from Chocola TO Sakura, then back to Chocola) and I'm interested in an explanation for why Sakura has managed to avoid attracting votes from both you and Relentless now; especially in your case when it at least looks like there's some cognitive dissonance going on.

[notscience]

muffin when you get to giving reads on people can you write the reasonings in acrostics

[Sakura Hana]

Also pie only focusing on my posts concerning her is noted.

[pieguyn]

No.

fyi if this is you saying you don't plan to elaborate on all of your reads this game we are going to have issues unless there's some other way I'll be able to town read you this game and not worry about it. if it's you saying you don't have any reads, carry on (although I feel this game is content-heavy enough that it shouldn't be hard to at least get some reads).

It does because i realized the -4 made him town after i made that post...

Well either way your scumread on me doesn't matter since i'll become conf town tomorrow, so im just gonna ignore the rest of that blatantly scumpainting post and keep voting you.

can we please not? I literally said I was giving you room to show me I was wrong before pushing you (so no, I wasn't scum painting, I was explicitly doing the opposite i.e. giving you room to be town) and I do not want another persona game.

[Sakura Hana]

I hated this: I do not believe she would at this point supposedly have had a massive gut scum read on me, as she's claiming here. I think this is a scum tell because we just got out of a game where I p much rekt her as scum (<3), and she had a gut scum read on me the last two days which she had a lot of trouble explaining/reasoning out. I think she was deliberately attempting to emulate her behavior in that game by declaring a "gut" scumread on me, and so she thought having a strong gutread on me from the get go might be how she would go about pushing me early as town if she thought I might be scum - when in reality this isn't how I expect she'd actually read me as town. I would expect she'd be a lot more tentative about forming an early read on me/want to feel me out more first if she thought to push me early; she historically has tended to give me room even when she has had a scum read on me (even in EOSD where she was convinced I was scum she kinda sorta backed off near the end and at least admitted Feysal/Spiffeh cross bussing each other would make sense even though she was sure I was scum, which is indicative of the kind of leeway we give each other when town).

now that she explained the reasoning behind it (see my previous post), I feel more strongly about this than I did when I first saw it. I _really_ don't think she would have had such a major reaction to my posts when her major reason was something as weak as voting zmuffin when he had -4 votes/was unlynchable.

a more minor point, I thought 23 looked forced too, but that's splitting hairs and I wouldn't put any stock in it. all of this said, I'd like to see how she responds to this/my last post and am not interested in pushing there for the time being.

I was basically reading this whole paragraph (didn't finish the first) then saw the next part and went "oh okay pie is scum" and skipped the rest.

[pieguyn]

yes

I'm assuming you don't want to elaborate?

I'd expect town early game would take more of a hard stance either way (ex. explicitly calling Relentless out for not having a case).

This seems to contrast strongly against your reasoning in your post this page against Sakura. Here, you're pinging me for not 'taking a hard stance', whereas your poking Sakura because she's 'too hard'. We're less than 24 hours in to day one so I, personally, can't see how somebody is 'too hard' or 'too weak' when half the player base has yet to post, so I'm wondering how you might come to this.

the read on Sakura is a meta read based specifically on what I would have expected her to do and I alluded to this in my post (it was off explicitly because it was her reading me in particular). I wouldn't (and don't) take issue with her reading anyone else strongly out the gate.

[Sakura Hana]

But hey, if you do want to get me mislynched, you need to do it today, it'll be literally impossible starting tomorrow.

[pieguyn]

If you're going to do this shit, I'm replacing out.

I've made it obvious I wanted to give you room to be town so we could work together, and I can't deal with another game of this after P4.

[pieguyn]

all of this said, I'd like to see how she responds to this/my last post and am not interested in pushing there for the time being.

I literally fucking said I'm not interested in pushing you right now, i.e. I _was giving you time to be town in case I was misreading your entrance_.

did you just not fucking read my post?

[notscience]

muffincat can call me prematurepreschool, btw.

[Sakura Hana]

All i read is "oh this looks forced because X, oh she's scum because she's faking this" literally not considering that i could be town, so my theory is that you're scum hoping for a mislynch, yes you did say you're not interested in pushing me for the time being at the end, but coupled with all that scumpainting done in that post makes me think i could've just said about anything and you could just flip it to make it look scummy. I mean you literally wrote a really big post explaining why im scum for scumreading you just to go and say "oh well maybe she's not scum"? yeah don't make me laugh. Why should I trust that you had that intention when apparently you've hated all of my posts?

[zMuffinMan]

btw, i'm sorry to hear about the arrest, ns. i hope the big house is treating you well

[pieguyn]

Sakura's recent posts have been mostly fine,

but her opening came off really forced.

Sakura, read this.

[Sakura Hana]

Well okay fine you've only hated my entrance, but still that doesn't explain the huge ammounts of scumpainting done in there if you were town instead of just... trying to read me?

[Katsuki]

PREMATUREPRESCHOOL IS A FITTING NAME FOR NS

[pieguyn]

you're not reading my posts fully - I very clearly am considering you could be town/that my interpretation of your posts was wrong, else I wouldn't have posted that nor backed off at the end. just because I call you scum early doesn't mean I won't see you as town if my read is wrong (and given I basically instacalled you scum and was right in the last UPick, yeah I will point it out if I see something that looks off).

if this is going to be another vitriolic-ass game where one of us keeps talking past the other, let me know now so I can just leave.

[Sakura Hana]

I literally cannot believe you say things like:

I hated this

now that she explained the reasoning behind it (see my previous post), I feel more strongly about this than I did when I first saw

a more minor point, I thought 23 looked forced too, but that's splitting hairs and I wouldn't put any stock in it.

About someone you think can be town.

[pieguyn]

Well okay fine you've only hated my entrance, but still that doesn't explain the huge ammounts of scumpainting done in there if you were town instead of just... trying to read me?

it wasn't "scumpainting". I wanted your response to it explicitly so that I _could_ read you.

how else would you expect me to figure it out if my reasoning is wrong?

[Sakura Hana]

if this is going to be another vitriolic-ass game where one of us keeps talking past the other, let me know now so I can just leave.

...

=/

While i know you can pull this sort of AtE as scum, it's still cheap......

[notscience]

muffincat, who must be sacrificed to the blood gods

[Sakura Hana]

Vote: Katsuki

[pieguyn]

if this is going to be another vitriolic-ass game where one of us keeps talking past the other, let me know now so I can just leave.

...

=/

While i know you can pull this sort of AtE as scum, it's still cheap......

I can definitely pull this kind of ATE as scum, yeah.

I'm upset bc I have no fucking idea what I can do to show you you're just splitting hairs about my posts. I thought your entrance came off forced, yeah, but reads aren't black-and-white. it was possible I could have just been (gasp) entirely wrong about your entrance. and on the off chance I was, I didn't want to push you because I knew that would just serve to lead into a giant shitfight if you wound up being town, and then you assumed I was "scumpainting" you and now it's leading to one anyway.

my intention there was to point out why I didn't like your entrance, without attempting to pressure you and (hopefully) making it obvious I was unsure about my interpretation of your posts and wanted to wait to see what you did before I went any further with it. if I failed in that regard, oh well, but that's where I was coming from.

can you try to read my posts again keeping this in mind?

p-edit: walk me through why?