Mini 1735 - Mana Khemia: Mafia in Al-Revis [End]

[Flay Gunnar]

votecount 1.21

itlepip (5) - Spiffeh, MarioManiac4, 3dicerolling, Cold Pizza, Maxous
Spiffeh (2) - itlepip, Suzune
Maxous (2) - Antihero, Vayne Aurelius
Saki (3) - notscience, Gilgamesh King Of Heroes, CharlotteBebe
CharlotteBebe (1) - Saki
MarioManiac4 (1) - Titus

Not voting (0) -

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is November 12, 12:30 GMT-7 or in (expired on 2015-11-12 12:30:00).

Please let me know if you see any mistakes

Mod Notes:

GuyInFreezer head of Cold Pizza is V/LA Until Saturday.

[Gilgamesh King Of Heroes]

@mod - VLA today and tomorrow.

Also, my name doesn't have a The in it.

[Gilgamesh King Of Heroes]

At best, it's intellectual laziness.

Never read on subbing in. A majority of the game is town and it's day 1.

[Ankamius]

1.

you stopped engaging her the moment she refused to make a pbp analysis of Gork (which is reasonable given her mood at the time, and the fact that gork wasn't doing the same while scumreading mollie)

2.

you dropped the ball on your end first.

3.

and then you went back and are spewing bullshit about how she has failed to talk to you[/spoiler]

1 and 2. This is completely false. I naked voted her once she made it clear that she didn't have any kind of case on this slot from before her vote. I've already went into why I think this is more likely to come from scum-mollie than town-mollie. You'll also notice that I was the one who initiated the interaction between us. Until that point, the only time Mollie had spoken to me at all was a throwaway comment about our play in the first few pages.
3. This already doesn't make sense with the above response, but the fact that you're trying to spin my argument as me saying mollie didn't talk to me at all is ridiculous. My point is that I find it very hard to believe that mollie, as town, would push a scumread on this slot entirely based on my partner's actions without even trying to get a read on me specifically, then try to be cagey when I start engaging her instead of talking with me straight or trying to get my take on the situation.

Have you ever played with antihero before?

yes
but you dont have to be a fucking rocket scientist to figure out that he's obviously disinterested and apathetic towards the game
if you scum-read him not providing useful content halfway into d1 imo that's a borderline trust tell and just absolute bullshit because it doesn't work out that way
people aren't fucking machines

I'm looking for one thing about his play that has strongly indicated him town throughout every single game I've ever played with him as town, and it's completely absent here. Lack of activity doesn't affect the strength of the tell at all.

lmao

There's no way in hell you believe this logic is sound. The fact that you're even mentioning this is scummy as fuck.

it's sound
please tell me how a hydra that doesnt compile scumreads is helpful to the town in any way

Then tell me how you know so much about how this hydra works that you're willing to make and push a point on it despite us never stating how this hydra functions up to that point?

[CharlotteBebe]

sigh

Spoiler:

1.

you stopped engaging her the moment she refused to make a pbp analysis of Gork (which is reasonable given her mood at the time, and the fact that gork wasn't doing the same while scumreading mollie)

2.

you dropped the ball on your end first.

3.

and then you went back and are spewing bullshit about how she has failed to talk to you

1 and 2. This is completely false. I naked voted her once she made it clear that she didn't have any kind of case on this slot from before her vote. I've already went into why I think this is more likely to come from scum-mollie than town-mollie. You'll also notice that I was the one who initiated the interaction between us. Until that point, the only time Mollie had spoken to me at all was a throwaway comment about our play in the first few pages.
3. This already doesn't make sense with the above response, but the fact that you're trying to spin my argument as me saying mollie didn't talk to me at all is ridiculous. My point is that I find it very hard to believe that mollie, as town, would push a scumread on this slot entirely based on my partner's actions without even trying to get a read on me specifically, then try to be cagey when I start engaging her instead of talking with me straight or trying to get my take on the situation.

Have you ever played with antihero before?

yes
but you dont have to be a fucking rocket scientist to figure out that he's obviously disinterested and apathetic towards the game
if you scum-read him not providing useful content halfway into d1 imo that's a borderline trust tell and just absolute bullshit because it doesn't work out that way
people aren't fucking machines

I'm looking for one thing about his play that has strongly indicated him town throughout every single game I've ever played with him as town, and it's completely absent here. Lack of activity doesn't affect the strength of the tell at all.

lmao

There's no way in hell you believe this logic is sound. The fact that you're even mentioning this is scummy as fuck.

it's sound
please tell me how a hydra that doesnt compile scumreads is helpful to the town in any way

Then tell me how you know so much about how this hydra works that you're willing to make and push a point on it despite us never stating how this hydra functions up to that point?

-Ank

[Antihero]

half tempted to hammer itlepip for lolz

[Titus]

At best, it's intellectual laziness.

Never read on subbing in. A majority of the game is town and it's day 1.

Rejecting data that is irrelevant to my conclusions is not intellectual laziess. Parsing relevant versus irrelevant is smart. I play more concerned with the what than the why. Gut based players must read those. That's not me.

Making assumptions to avoid critical thought is intellectual laziness.

[Titus]

half tempted to hammer itlepip for lolz

[Titus]

1.

you stopped engaging her the moment she refused to make a pbp analysis of Gork (which is reasonable given her mood at the time, and the fact that gork wasn't doing the same while scumreading mollie)

2.

you dropped the ball on your end first.

3.

and then you went back and are spewing bullshit about how she has failed to talk to you[/spoiler]

1 and 2. This is completely false. I naked voted her once she made it clear that she didn't have any kind of case on this slot from before her vote. I've already went into why I think this is more likely to come from scum-mollie than town-mollie. You'll also notice that I was the one who initiated the interaction between us. Until that point, the only time Mollie had spoken to me at all was a throwaway comment about our play in the first few pages.
3. This already doesn't make sense with the above response, but the fact that you're trying to spin my argument as me saying mollie didn't talk to me at all is ridiculous. My point is that I find it very hard to believe that mollie, as town, would push a scumread on this slot entirely based on my partner's actions without even trying to get a read on me specifically, then try to be cagey when I start engaging her instead of talking with me straight or trying to get my take on the situation.

Have you ever played with antihero before?

yes
but you dont have to be a fucking rocket scientist to figure out that he's obviously disinterested and apathetic towards the game
if you scum-read him not providing useful content halfway into d1 imo that's a borderline trust tell and just absolute bullshit because it doesn't work out that way
people aren't fucking machines

I'm looking for one thing about his play that has strongly indicated him town throughout every single game I've ever played with him as town, and it's completely absent here. Lack of activity doesn't affect the strength of the tell at all.

lmao

There's no way in hell you believe this logic is sound. The fact that you're even mentioning this is scummy as fuck.

it's sound
please tell me how a hydra that doesnt compile scumreads is helpful to the town in any way

Then tell me how you know so much about how this hydra works that you're willing to make and push a point on it despite us never stating how this hydra functions up to that point?

I can buy Mollie scum provided Ank's description is accurate. This looks a lot like my gripes when I hydra that my hydras get referred to as whichever head is easier to push at the given time and scum ignore the other head entirely. While Mollie buddied me in FF7, she did show evidence of this as well. I'll need to verify whether a) Ank believes this to be true and b) whether it's actually true, but the logical reasoning appears valid.

Tell me more about your meta read on Antihero. I have one for ika that's similar along to those lines, but I want to know the theory so I can look through and verify its consistency.

[notscience]

Here after more legend league.

[Suzune]

half tempted to hammer itlepip for lolz

I feel like it would not progress the town team if you do things just because.

[Titus]

half tempted to hammer itlepip for lolz

I feel like it would not progress the town team if you do things just because.

"The town team"?

[Suzune]

half tempted to hammer itlepip for lolz

I feel like it would not progress the town team if you do things just because.

"The town team"?

Just a shortening of my usual speech about the town being a team. Seemed like it was time to shorten it a tad.

[Titus]

Why not just say "us" or "the town"?

[Saki]

except i gave reasons for thinking both 3dice and itle were scummy at the time, thus making it not an rvs vote.
it was in direct response to the reaction test youre referring to.

fair enough, i missed that

right. how descriptive.

you dont need a lot of words to say something, you just have to get to what's important

i) "mollie and notty arent striking me as town and thats kinda sketch"

faulty logic, but ok

ii) "mollie's meta from her scumgame from what ive read is similar enough that i cant say that this is her towngame and her push on my slot is similarly void of any kind of substance in a way thats similar to how she opened into that scumgame she linked such that i can see her being scum"

so yes, you did say her play resembles her scumgame and announced you had a slight scumlean because of it

and i established that there were other people that i was scumreading much more strongly at this point so you going "OH MY FUCKING GOD HOW COULD GORK BE PUSHING MOLLIE ON THESE WEAK POINTS" is pretty much absolutely fucking moot.

that's not my point
my point is that
you went from "mollie/notty don't seem town" to "ok mollie is scummy because her play is kinda similar to her scumgame"
meta is never a reliable argument in cases going for either argument
and on top of that it was your a) sole reason and b) you also said you didn't even look into it that well
yes, you had other scumreads
yes, you were pushing other people
but nevertheless i dont like how your push on mollie started

iii) mollie started seeming more like scum the more she started to devolve the argument into abstract and distracting bullshit instead of actually talking to me, which especially seemed scummy because she had literally just got out of a game where she deathtunneled someone on d1 as town and mislynched them for better reasons than what shed given so far in this game.
saying that someone is scummy because they said theyd looked at a game youd linked because they couldnt have read the whole thing is pretty garbage and she refused to acknowledge that and just kept digging deeper when i pointed that out. i think the manner in which she did it felt more like scum frustration than town frustration.

from her pov, before you guys started rolling in the shit pit together
1. your scumlean on her is one part "she hasnt done anything town yet" and one part "her game kinda looks like her scumgame which i didn't even look into throughly"
2. mollie says "that's not true, my game here does not resemble my game there, did you even read the game throughly"
3. you say "yes it does, and no i didn't read it"
4. mollie accuses you of 'lying about her meta' (lying about someone's meta to scumread them is a pretty common scum move btw) and votes you
5. you vote her
6. all hell breaks loose

my point is
you didn't back off at any point during 2, 3, or 4 even though she was giving you signs that told you you were clearly in the wrong (you cannot argue with someone on what their meta is like. that is just dumb)
i wont comment on what that devolved into bc everyone's been to the shit pit with red hot anger at some point
and then you decided on scumreading her AFTER she replaced out (which should've been a second sign to back off)

so tl;dr what im saying is
i think you are forcing yourself to keep a consistent scumread on mollie (commonly known as tunneling)
and that isnt something many town players do ever

like, i get that im a piece of shit.
but i just get this distinct feeling that your main goal here isnt to make us seem scummy or figure us out, its to make us feel bad.

nah
did you even see gilgamesh's 529
and im not giving him shit for it

you and gilgamesh are both playing like shit, yes
but you guys have different intentions (and obv. different playstyles and actions)
is what im saying

like i said repeatedly
i dont want to lynch someone off of bad play (those two you-know-whos just get a special mention)
but i dont see town intentions behind the way you are playing

[Saki]

Titus replaces Zexion!

VOTE: Titus

....

VOTE: CharlotteBebe

We have six days, so why are you narrowing to two wagons?

game's slowing down
and there isnt anyone really speaking up about starting a new one?

I'm voting itlepip as the biggest wagon.
I'd like a flip to work with, sort of.

VOTE: MM

That's just shit reasoning. There's no point to assuming one of the two major wagons six days before deadline must be flipped. At best, it's intellectual laziness.

thats a shit vote

titus can be tentatively town.

how is that vote in any way town
it just screams scum to me

Never read on subbing in. A majority of the game is town and it's day 1. My default is why push someone.

sub 600 posts, titus
please read the game
and regardless of being town or scum a player IS going to have a reason to push someone so idk why you're asking w/o reading

[Saki]

1 and 2. This is completely false. I naked voted her once she made it clear that she didn't have any kind of case on this slot from before her vote.

she did
she literally said "gorkington is lying about my meta thats what i do when im scum"
and that was pretty much her entire case
you just missed it

I've already went into why I think this is more likely to come from scum-mollie than town-mollie. You'll also notice that I was the one who initiated the interaction between us. Until that point, the only time Mollie had spoken to me at all was a throwaway comment about our play in the first few pages.

i disagree
you didnt even post until mollie and gork were deathtunneling each other
im not going to hold that against you but you can't really say that you were there to somehow stop mollie and your hydra buddy from tunneling each other and she shrugged you off

Then tell me how you know so much about how this hydra works that you're willing to make and push a point on it despite us never stating how this hydra functions up to that point?

i dont know how your hydra works
but i know how a hydra SHOULD work
and you arent playing like how one should
you are technically one player
you should not be scumreading mollie because she refused to communicate with you when your hydra partner and mollie were in the shit pit

i can only infer that your course of action would be to convince mollie that gorkington is not scum
hence taking no stance on gork's actions (which seems to me like not claiming responsibility)
which means that you are hiding behind your hydra partner
a hydra should not be some kind of gimmick that helps scum more than town
thats just bullshit

[Saki]

ah, the classic titus moonlogic train
fuck my life

half tempted to hammer itlepip for lolz

Here after more legend league.

you guys really have no intention of playing day one, do you

Why not just say "us" or "the town"?

please dont start the linguistic tells thing
its not worth the trouble

[CharlotteBebe]

how is that vote in any way town
it just screams scum to me

the vote isnt the main reason im townreading her.
but i can also see town her making it easier than scum her.
scum her would overjustify herself.
town her doesnt give a shit about how she looks coming in.
but you can continue to have shitty reads if you are town if youd like, i can just hopefully get to laugh at you postgame rather than be sad if youre scum.

meta is never a reliable argument in cases going for either argument
and on top of that it was your a) sole reason and b) you also said you didn't even look into it that well

so.
what youre saying is.
someone having an opinion on someone's meta, because you believe meta is wrong, is scummy.
this is a load of ass and you should know it.

you didn't back off at any point during 2, 3, or 4 even though she was giving you signs that told you you were clearly in the wrong (you cannot argue with someone on what their meta is like. that is just dumb)

unless someone is lying about their meta...?

and then you decided on scumreading her AFTER she replaced out (which should've been a second sign to back off)

right because scum has never replaced out of a game ever.
ive never seen frustrated scum say fuck it ever! its not like i established that i got those kind of vibes from it and youre just consistently trying to push like people cant have feelings about things in a game about getting a feeling for people in general!
like, i just feel like you dont actually give a fuck about understanding WHY i felt mollie was scummy. i dont even know if i think her slot is scum anymore because notty is hard to read.
you just keep throwing this bullshit angle of "TOWN WOULD NEVER USE META OR FEEL LIKE SOMETHING IS SCUMMY".
but hey.
keep distracting me with this argument that isnt going to convince anyone that im scummy.
if i was scum i would be fucking loving it, but im not.

vote: spiffeh

this is an actually good vote.

[CharlotteBebe]

Why are you pushing Saki?

i dont really think ive honestly been pushing anyone the last few days.
saki's push on our slot didnt have reasons, i wanted some and i thought his progression on notty could have been coming from scum.

[Spiffeh]

Titus MM acts like that every game I learned that the hard way.

Vote somewhere more productive pls

I recommend the itlepip wagon.

Also Gork I know you REALLY want me to be scum but I'm gonna have to burst your bubble. Will respond to your stuff now.

[CharlotteBebe]

i dont REALLY want you to be scum.
just think that the way youre treating me is wonky this game and your pushes seem really surface level.

[Spiffeh]

also.
how in heavens name am i chainsaw defending itle?
what?
do you understand what the word chainsaw means?
or are you saying im chainsawing him by saying you look scummier than him in your 1v1? because i still do generally feel like the vibe from those back and forths was town itle and scum spiff. and im also pretty sure im not the only one who expressed that.

this game is frustrating.

Isn't chainsaw defending attacking someone who's attacking someone else to defend that someone else?

And I didn't like how you wrote it off as a semantics argument WHEN IT WASN'T. I was pointing out what I thought was a contradiction (I think we're talking about the same situation? lol) and it seemed like you stepped in to give him a way out to stop engaging with me when I thought I was making a valid point as to why he was scummy. And since you had been going on about me not making my reasons for voting him clear/not having any, it was frustrating when you tried to write one of them off like that.

[Spiffeh]

like seriously, how are you even trying to hardpush someone as scum for using a word that i used to describe the back-and-forth between the two of you?
that doesnt make any sense.
at all.

Are you seriously boiling down my reasons for scum reading him to that?
Yes that is a contributing factor but it is not the only reason why I am hard-pushing him.

[itlepip]

like seriously, how are you even trying to hardpush someone as scum for using a word that i used to describe the back-and-forth between the two of you?
that doesnt make any sense.
at all.

Are you seriously boiling down my reasons for scum reading him to that?
Yes that is a contributing factor but it is not the only reason why I am hard-pushing him.

Then why the F are you hard pushing me. For someone that goes on and on about not responding to posts you haven't responded to any of my recent ones and I have at least addressed all of your posts or explained why they were BS. I'm not even positive that you are scum here, but you seemed just to pick someone to death-tunnel and you seem so stuck on that one read without giving any good explanation, that play doesn't make any sense from a town point of view unless you are an insane early-start cop that got a scum result on me.