Newbie 1681 - Game over!

[podoboq]

I cant think or type straight it's getting late here and I can't physicly can't stay awake for much longer but I'll be able to answer if I wakeup early.

Bur I do want to apologize for all then away from this game

NO. He's just pushing the goal posts until it's too late. He said something enormous in order to disincentive us from lynching him, and then says "Sorry guys, I'm tired," in order to disengage. This is scummy as hell.

[Amihan]

Yeah I'm here while I'm not sure it's the write time for a claim at L-1 and with enought people happy to hammer it's important I tell you before I fall asleep. I'm the town Jailor. I've been quiet this whole day because I didn't want to draw scum's attention to myself. I'm sorry i've been so quiet and relatively useless but before with town PR I've been NK early on and I didn't want this to happen his game. But it dosen't matter they swung it so I was a lynch anyway. Lilith remember what happened last game

This is important: he typed this post like he didn't plan on having to make another. He forgot to name a target. When you're a real jailkeeper with a potentially incriminating result, conveying that message to the class isn't something you just forget to do.

And NLR says Drixx's argument about hammering made him unsure on whether Drixx was scum anymore. So as town he would think either Drixx was the nightkill target, or he thought a 1-shot BP was shot by scum. Neither of which any of his posts seem to show any sort of thought about; instead he's just wishy-washy on pretty much everyone, including Drixx.

Also if anyone decides to go rogue and unnecessarily counterclaim this, please don't claim what specific role you are. Just claim that your role conflicts with his claim, and say who you're targeting tonight if necessary.

[podoboq]

He's not "obvious" enough scum. That's terrible logic. We should be treating him like confirmed town unless there is a counterclaim. If someone counterclaims, we lynch him then. Unless someone counterclaims, we do not lynch him.

No. He

is

obvious here. Drixx is literally the worst possible target as jailer. If he's town, he's the least likely to be attacked at night, because after his hammer at the end of day 1, he's the most suspicious townie.

If he's scum, he's the worst player to jail, because there's no reason for him to be the scum who commits the kill, and you know you aren't protecting any player. It's better to just random it, and hope you either hit scum (who might commit the kill), or protect a random townie who might get attacked.

The reason scum NLR would say he jailed Drixx is to give us more reason to lynch Drixx instead today.

Podoboq theres a hole in that theory. N1 was before Drixx had chosen to explain hammering Dewy and even I thought it was scummy before I thought it through enough. If anything Drixx was the Number 1 person to jail during the night. I see one of 4 options with this:

EXACTLY. Everybody thought he was scummy. That's exactly why he's a terrible target. Since everybody thinks he's scummy, there's no reason for him to perform the kill. Since everybody thinks he's scummy, there's no reason for scum to attack him. He is the WORST possible jailer target. There is no way to get any value out of that decision, because nothing the jailer does interacts with Drixx during n2 in any way.

Are you kidding me right now? Are you seriously kidding with me?

Someone who is scummy is PERFECT for pr's to look at. If someone is to do something like Drixx did, then of COURSE a Cop would investigate them, or in our case a Jailor.

Except Cop and Jailor do very different things. Cop learns a role for sure, so you target whoever is most likely scum to confirm that knowledge. Jailor protects townies by targetting them, and stop scum by hitting

only the scum committing the kill

. There is absolutely no way that Drixx, as scum, would commit the kill on night one.

Even in the astronomically unlikely circumstance that NLR is telling the truth, Drixx is basically confirmed town here, because he would never commit the kill, and nobody died last night. If NLR is telling the truth, Drixx must be town.

[podoboq]

For what it matters, if my role conflicted with NLR's role here, I would not counterclaim,

because this lynch is obvious to me, and it is not worth getting an actual PR killed in order to confirm that NLR is scum.

Also, just to be clear,

THIS IS NOT A COUNTERCLAIM

.

[N e s s]

He's not "obvious" enough scum. That's terrible logic. We should be treating him like confirmed town unless there is a counterclaim. If someone counterclaims, we lynch him then. Unless someone counterclaims, we do not lynch him.

No. He

is

obvious here. Drixx is literally the worst possible target as jailer. If he's town, he's the least likely to be attacked at night, because after his hammer at the end of day 1, he's the most suspicious townie.

If he's scum, he's the worst player to jail, because there's no reason for him to be the scum who commits the kill, and you know you aren't protecting any player. It's better to just random it, and hope you either hit scum (who might commit the kill), or protect a random townie who might get attacked.

The reason scum NLR would say he jailed Drixx is to give us more reason to lynch Drixx instead today.

Podoboq theres a hole in that theory. N1 was before Drixx had chosen to explain hammering Dewy and even I thought it was scummy before I thought it through enough. If anything Drixx was the Number 1 person to jail during the night. I see one of 4 options with this:

EXACTLY. Everybody thought he was scummy. That's exactly why he's a terrible target. Since everybody thinks he's scummy, there's no reason for him to perform the kill. Since everybody thinks he's scummy, there's no reason for scum to attack him. He is the WORST possible jailer target. There is no way to get any value out of that decision, because nothing the jailer does interacts with Drixx during n2 in any way.

Are you kidding me right now? Are you seriously kidding with me?

Someone who is scummy is PERFECT for pr's to look at. If someone is to do something like Drixx did, then of COURSE a Cop would investigate them, or in our case a Jailor.

Except Cop and Jailor do very different things. Cop learns a role for sure, so you target whoever is most likely scum to confirm that knowledge. Jailor protects townies by targetting them, and stop scum by hitting

only the scum committing the kill

. There is absolutely no way that Drixx, as scum, would commit the kill on night one.

Even in the astronomically unlikely circumstance that NLR is telling the truth, Drixx is basically confirmed town here, because he would never commit the kill, and nobody died last night. If NLR is telling the truth, Drixx must be town.

Oh my god, you are literally just spewing out whatever nonsense you can right now.

You've played town of salem, what happens when there are 2 scum and the jailor jails the mafioso? No kills happen correct? Or if he isn't scum, look towards the other options of a Bulletproof happening or the kills not happening in general to frame someone.

[N e s s]

I'm not defending NLR either, i'm only inclind to believe a PR claim that happened.

[Amihan]

You are a Mafia Goon.

Your partner is PLAYER, who is a Mafia Goon/Roleblocker.

You share a factional kill each night.

You must choose which of you will commit the kill.

[SirCakez]

He's not "obvious" enough scum. That's terrible logic. We should be treating him like confirmed town unless there is a counterclaim. If someone counterclaims, we lynch him then. Unless someone counterclaims, we do not lynch him.

No. He

is

obvious here. Drixx is literally the worst possible target as jailer. If he's town, he's the least likely to be attacked at night, because after his hammer at the end of day 1, he's the most suspicious townie.

If he's scum, he's the worst player to jail, because there's no reason for him to be the scum who commits the kill, and you know you aren't protecting any player. It's better to just random it, and hope you either hit scum (who might commit the kill), or protect a random townie who might get attacked.

The reason scum NLR would say he jailed Drixx is to give us more reason to lynch Drixx instead today.

Podoboq theres a hole in that theory. N1 was before Drixx had chosen to explain hammering Dewy and even I thought it was scummy before I thought it through enough. If anything Drixx was the Number 1 person to jail during the night. I see one of 4 options with this:

EXACTLY. Everybody thought he was scummy. That's exactly why he's a terrible target. Since everybody thinks he's scummy, there's no reason for him to perform the kill. Since everybody thinks he's scummy, there's no reason for scum to attack him. He is the WORST possible jailer target. There is no way to get any value out of that decision, because nothing the jailer does interacts with Drixx during n2 in any way.

Are you kidding me right now? Are you seriously kidding with me?

Someone who is scummy is PERFECT for pr's to look at. If someone is to do something like Drixx did, then of COURSE a Cop would investigate them, or in our case a Jailor.

Except Cop and Jailor do very different things. Cop learns a role for sure, so you target whoever is most likely scum to confirm that knowledge. Jailor protects townies by targetting them, and stop scum by hitting

only the scum committing the kill

. There is absolutely no way that Drixx, as scum, would commit the kill on night one.

Even in the astronomically unlikely circumstance that NLR is telling the truth, Drixx is basically confirmed town here, because he would never commit the kill, and nobody died last night. If NLR is telling the truth, Drixx must be town.

This is not how Jailkeeper works.....
The fact he was jailed and there was no kill makes it more likely he's scum.

[Drixx]

N E S S - I can point you to a scum game where I was partnered with Pignash (who replaced into a slot which had made a huge slip). I hard defended the slot and Pignash and figured that would draw any investigative roles after me, and we sent Pignash to do the kill. The tracker that game just outguessed us.

There is zero chance I would

ever

have had me submitting the kill last night if I were scum, after the quickhammer that I did. I would be an absurdly obvious target for a tracker and a cop. A jailer would have to be confused to jail me on the premise that I was scum, because there's literally zero chance a scum who had done what I did to end day one would submit the kill.

But even if you miss the logic in that ... I can literally point you to a VERY RECENT game where I got burned hard because the wrong person was sent to do the kill. If you still want to argue that LNR is telling the truth (even after #972) and that I must therefore be scum after that ... you are basically implicitly calling me a moron.

[Amihan]

Ness, Jailkeeper only works on the one who chose to perform the kill, not both. NLR has experience here and already knows that.

I'm not defending NLR either, i'm only inclind to believe a PR claim that happened.

This is exactly the optimal play for scum to make though.

When NLR flips scum, I'll also be looking at people who prefer "Jailor" because of possible attempted coaching in the claim though.

[podoboq]

He's not "obvious" enough scum. That's terrible logic. We should be treating him like confirmed town unless there is a counterclaim. If someone counterclaims, we lynch him then. Unless someone counterclaims, we do not lynch him.

No. He

is

obvious here. Drixx is literally the worst possible target as jailer. If he's town, he's the least likely to be attacked at night, because after his hammer at the end of day 1, he's the most suspicious townie.

If he's scum, he's the worst player to jail, because there's no reason for him to be the scum who commits the kill, and you know you aren't protecting any player. It's better to just random it, and hope you either hit scum (who might commit the kill), or protect a random townie who might get attacked.

The reason scum NLR would say he jailed Drixx is to give us more reason to lynch Drixx instead today.

Podoboq theres a hole in that theory. N1 was before Drixx had chosen to explain hammering Dewy and even I thought it was scummy before I thought it through enough. If anything Drixx was the Number 1 person to jail during the night. I see one of 4 options with this:

EXACTLY. Everybody thought he was scummy. That's exactly why he's a terrible target. Since everybody thinks he's scummy, there's no reason for him to perform the kill. Since everybody thinks he's scummy, there's no reason for scum to attack him. He is the WORST possible jailer target. There is no way to get any value out of that decision, because nothing the jailer does interacts with Drixx during n2 in any way.

Are you kidding me right now? Are you seriously kidding with me?

Someone who is scummy is PERFECT for pr's to look at. If someone is to do something like Drixx did, then of COURSE a Cop would investigate them, or in our case a Jailor.

Except Cop and Jailor do very different things. Cop learns a role for sure, so you target whoever is most likely scum to confirm that knowledge. Jailor protects townies by targetting them, and stop scum by hitting

only the scum committing the kill

. There is absolutely no way that Drixx, as scum, would commit the kill on night one.

Even in the astronomically unlikely circumstance that NLR is telling the truth, Drixx is basically confirmed town here, because he would never commit the kill, and nobody died last night. If NLR is telling the truth, Drixx must be town.

This is not how Jailkeeper works.....
The fact he was jailed and there was no kill makes it more likely he's scum.

Except that it doesn't because there are two living scum players, and only one commits the kill. There is no world in which Drixx is dumb enough, as scum, to choose to be the player to commit the kill, when everyone is already suspicious of him.

[N e s s]

N E S S - I can point you to a scum game where I was partnered with Pignash (who replaced into a slot which had made a huge slip). I hard defended the slot and Pignash and figured that would draw any investigative roles after me, and we sent Pignash to do the kill. The tracker that game just outguessed us.

There is zero chance I would

ever

have had me submitting the kill last night if I were scum, after the quickhammer that I did. I would be an absurdly obvious target for a tracker and a cop. A jailer would have to be confused to jail me on the premise that I was scum, because there's literally zero chance a scum who had done what I did to end day one would submit the kill.

But even if you miss the logic in that ... I can literally point you to a VERY RECENT game where I got burned hard because the wrong person was sent to do the kill. If you still want to argue that LNR is telling the truth (even after #972) and that I must therefore be scum after that ... you are basically implicitly calling me a moron.

I'm not calling you scum, I just see faulty logic. But if you guys are certain on this, then i'll go ahead and put my vote back onto NLR. Maybe i'm just missing something here, but I just believed it.

VOTE: New Luna Republic

[podoboq]

He's not "obvious" enough scum. That's terrible logic. We should be treating him like confirmed town unless there is a counterclaim. If someone counterclaims, we lynch him then. Unless someone counterclaims, we do not lynch him.

No. He

is

obvious here. Drixx is literally the worst possible target as jailer. If he's town, he's the least likely to be attacked at night, because after his hammer at the end of day 1, he's the most suspicious townie.

If he's scum, he's the worst player to jail, because there's no reason for him to be the scum who commits the kill, and you know you aren't protecting any player. It's better to just random it, and hope you either hit scum (who might commit the kill), or protect a random townie who might get attacked.

The reason scum NLR would say he jailed Drixx is to give us more reason to lynch Drixx instead today.

Podoboq theres a hole in that theory. N1 was before Drixx had chosen to explain hammering Dewy and even I thought it was scummy before I thought it through enough. If anything Drixx was the Number 1 person to jail during the night. I see one of 4 options with this:

EXACTLY. Everybody thought he was scummy. That's exactly why he's a terrible target. Since everybody thinks he's scummy, there's no reason for him to perform the kill. Since everybody thinks he's scummy, there's no reason for scum to attack him. He is the WORST possible jailer target. There is no way to get any value out of that decision, because nothing the jailer does interacts with Drixx during n2 in any way.

Are you kidding me right now? Are you seriously kidding with me?

Someone who is scummy is PERFECT for pr's to look at. If someone is to do something like Drixx did, then of COURSE a Cop would investigate them, or in our case a Jailor.

Except Cop and Jailor do very different things. Cop learns a role for sure, so you target whoever is most likely scum to confirm that knowledge. Jailor protects townies by targetting them, and stop scum by hitting

only the scum committing the kill

. There is absolutely no way that Drixx, as scum, would commit the kill on night one.

Even in the astronomically unlikely circumstance that NLR is telling the truth, Drixx is basically confirmed town here, because he would never commit the kill, and nobody died last night. If NLR is telling the truth, Drixx must be town.

Oh my god, you are literally just spewing out whatever nonsense you can right now.

You've played town of salem, what happens when there are 2 scum and the jailor jails the mafioso? No kills happen correct? Or if he isn't scum, look towards the other options of a Bulletproof happening or the kills not happening in general to frame someone.

In ToS, if the jailer jails the mafioso, any other living mafia member who can kill does the kill instead.

Also, there's no way the scum would just not kill and then not capitalize on that fact immediately. It would just be a completely stupid play.

[SirCakez]

If Drixx being blocked is not why there was no kill, then they may have also hit a BP.

[Rob14]

Vote Count #2.7:

New Luna Republic:

Amihan, Drixx, podoboq, N e s s (4)

Drixx:

pignash (1)

pignash:

SirCakez (1)

Not Voting:

New Luna Republic, lilith2013

With 8 players alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

V/LA:

None.

Deadline:

(expired on 2016-02-23 08:00:00)

[podoboq]

NLR is at L-1
A vote for NLR is a hammering vote
You can just go ahead and do it as far as I'm concerned.

[lilith2013]

I'm inclined to agree with the logic precluding NLR's target being Drixx. (As in, I do not believe that claim.)

Declaring intent to hammer, if anyone wants to get in some last reads.

[SirCakez]

There was no CC asdfksnfknsflkn

[podoboq]

If Drixx being blocked is not why there was no kill, then they may have also hit a BP.

Or there could be an actual jailed, who actually jailed someone. Or there could be a doctor who saved somebody. If you accept that NLR could be lying, that opens up every option that existed before that completely insane claim.

[lilith2013]

Do you really believe a Jailkeeper would target Drixx????

[N e s s]

I'm inclined to agree with the logic precluding NLR's target being Drixx. (As in, I do not believe that claim.)

Declaring intent to hammer, if anyone wants to get in some last reads.

Hammer them right now lilith.

[SirCakez]

Yeah, NLR was paying 0 attention to the game day one. And they have not exactly shown themselves to be the best of strategists.

[SirCakez]

When NLR flips town, I am going to flip tables tomorrow.

[podoboq]

There was no CC asdfksnfknsflkn

If I know that NLR is lying (because maybe I'm the jailer for example,) I would rather get the lynch to happen without revealing that information. No reason to reveal that information when the lynch can happen without it.

THIS IS NOT A COUNTERCLAIM

[N e s s]

Maybe i'm just not thinking about what JK does??? I've never been in a set-up with one so its confusing. I assumed that you can talk to the jail keeper and used ToS mechanics.