A Musical Mafia! (Game over)

[SirCakez]

Yeah Seniors' vote on me is awful lmao
I haven't fencesat anywhere. "Scumreading anyone making an impact" is wtf and false.
Beeboy scum read is from his ubertunnel on Seniors and the aforementioned waffle on Sakura.
Seniors scum read is from the Snarky vote, little scumhunting and now this terrible misrep.

[SirCakez]

{The Pied Piper, Mirhawk, Spiffeh}
{THE WRONG LYNCH, davesaz}
{SnarkySnowman, dramonic, podobo, pistachi0n, True Ogre, millar13, Amihan}
{SirCakez, Axelrod, Sakura Hana, Swordsworth}
{Friendless Seniors, tictac}

This is where I am at right now.

What happened to Sakura being town?

[beeboy]

{The Pied Piper, Mirhawk, Spiffeh}
{THE WRONG LYNCH, davesaz}
{SnarkySnowman, dramonic, podobo, pistachi0n, True Ogre, millar13, Amihan}
{SirCakez, Axelrod, Sakura Hana, Swordsworth}
{Friendless Seniors, tictac}

This is where I am at right now.

What happened to Sakura being town?

I said I had reasons to believe she was scum and reasons to believe she was town but I wasn't 100% sure which one she was. I never said she was town.

Also stop saying I am tunneling when I clearly have other reads and interactions.

[SirCakez]

So fence sitting or what?
And you do, but 90% of your posts are Seniors, Seniors, Seniors.

[Friendless Seniors]

tryhard because he is trying to match the insane prowess of his hydra partner

I don't agree with the snowman scumread at all,

but I can see why Ep would, I guess?

pedit: LLD, have you played with dwlee before? Is an elaborate fakeclaim something you would expect from him?

[Friendless Seniors]

cakez is scum

if you're going to let fucking beeboy lynch me I'm so done

[beeboy]

@cakes
What do you mean fence sitting? Fence sitting is when I don't take a stance on a popular wagon with lots of info. Sakura isnt a popular wagon nor is there any solid alignment indicative posts from her yet.

Yes a lot of my posts are about Seniors but that is a fallacy because of my post count
.

[Spiffeh]

hiplop you're scummy though

You still haven't addressed how Snarky "pushed" you

[beeboy]

tryhard because he is trying to match the insane prowess of his hydra partner

I don't agree with the snowman scumread at all,

but I can see why Ep would, I guess?

pedit: LLD, have you played with dwlee before? Is an elaborate fakeclaim something you would expect from him?

Yawn, still a false statement you pushed snowman. You didn't do anything to interact with the snowman wagon once it started taking off.

[beeboy]

cakez is scum

if you're going to let fucking beeboy lynch me I'm so done

It is almost as if I am not the only one with a scum read on you o=

[SirCakez]

@cakes
What do you mean fence sitting? Fence sitting is when I don't take a stance on a popular wagon with lots of info. Sakura isnt a popular wagon nor is there any solid alignment indicative posts from her yet.

Yes a lot of my posts are about Seniors but that is a fallacy because of my post count
.

Since when is that fence sitting?
You're waffling everywhere on Sakura.

[SirCakez]

@cakes
What do you mean fence sitting? Fence sitting is when I don't take a stance on a popular wagon with lots of info. Sakura isnt a popular wagon nor is there any solid alignment indicative posts from her yet.

Yes a lot of my posts are about Seniors but that is a fallacy because of my post count
.

Since when is that the definition of fence sitting? It doesn't have to be a popular wagon to fence sit on it.
You're waffling everywhere on Sakura.

EBWOP for clarification

[beeboy]

Since when is that fence sitting?
You're waffling everywhere on Sakura.

Fence sitting isn't having trouble reading someone sorry.

[Axelrod]

I think that "hasn't done much of anything" is a fine reason to scumread a person. Where's the scumhunting? Where's the poking around for reactions? Do they have any reads? Why aren't they engaging with anybody? He was here for about an hour and he did very little in that time, though he made several posts.

"Hasn't done much of anything"

is

a perfectly fine reason to vote someone. But what I was talking about was less the vote than the

conviction

with which it was made. I think Beeboy said he was something like 90% certain FS was scum. And that was simply way out of line for what FS had actually posted up to that point. Which was basically nothing. So, like, you can definitely vote someone for doing nothing in the very early game, and that's fine. But declaring them scum with 90% certainly over it is just wrong.

What I'm trying to assess is Beeboy's genuineness about it though, and right now he's coming off as pretty genuine, at least. So, that's a positive.

False dichotomy. You leave out the possibility that the behavior is neutral (or that I haven't formed an opinion on it yet) but the responses to my comments from him and others will help me sort people.

That's not how a false dichotomy works, as evidenced by the fact that you managed to answer my second question while pretending you didn't.

Both of the statements you made about Axel were accusatory in tone, they didn't sound neutral to me at least. Do you think Axel is town or scum?

@B
Dunno man, being self involved isn't really a scum tell.

You presented an either/or question which presented that there could not be any other answer, where the answer was none of the above. It doesn't get any more false dichotomy than that.

I made it very clear that my read is null. Your push however is not.
VOTE: Mirhawk

Ew. Bad vote.

First, you were totally casting aspersions on me without voting for me, which, is a thing you can do - not every suspicion is worth a vote - but when you get challenged for it don't pretend it wasn't what you were doing either. Also, you totally did NOT make it "clear" that your read was "null." What you said was (in response to the challenge) that Mirhawk was leaving out a 3rd possibility that the behavior was "neutral" or you hadn't formed an opinion on it yet (which is two different things), without actually saying that this was, in fact, your position. How was this "clear"?

Skimmed again, if i missed something directed at me please let me know,

Missed mine:

[@Sakura: (per post #64) did you really think that I was advocating for a "policy" lynch of all Hydras? Really?]

Your 68 was a direct response to people making comments (in particular Sakura's 64 which your 68 quoted) about your apparent interest in PLing hydras. You posted something, people reacted, you posted a retraction. By definition that is pulling back.

This doesn't even make sense. If you RVS someone, and another player

demands

(in very serious fashion) that you explain whether you were seriously voting or not, and you say "Uh, no." Have you "pulled back?"

Because that is exactly what happened.

My comment was, in part, a means of prodding you to find out if you would be defensive about it being called that. You later posted about hydras again, and I pointed out the apparent inconsistency between 68 (implying it's not serious) and the later post explaining your stance. I don't remember if you responded to that or not...

Do I think it was serious? Don't know, your own posting implies it is at least partially serious, but even that could just as easily be a joke or itself a reaction test. I don't think it's alignment indicative by itself, since it's hard to distinguish between scum testing the waters and town fishing for (scum) sheep.

What part of my posting suggests in any way that I have ever "seriously" advocated for policy lynching of Hydras? It is boggling my mind that anyone could genuinely come away with that impression.

The absolute most you might conclude (and that I would even cop to) is that I have a "policy" of randomly voting for Hydras during the RVS stages of a game when I have no one better to vote for, as a sort of silent protest against their existence.

[SirCakez]

Since when is that fence sitting?
You're waffling everywhere on Sakura.

Fence sitting isn't having trouble reading someone sorry.

If you're having trouble getting a read in them then why vote her so confidently earlier and slot her on the reads list?

[beeboy]

Since when is that fence sitting?
You're waffling everywhere on Sakura.

Fence sitting isn't having trouble reading someone sorry.

If you're having trouble getting a read in them then why vote her so confidently earlier and slot her on the reads list?

Because for that period of time I was confident she was scum o.o
You are going in circles right now then you go.

Cakes: "flip flopping"
Me: "It isn't scummy to change your read early"
....

[SirCakez]

Because that is flip flipping and you're arguing it's not

[SirCakez]

Beeboy how do you have 100 posts good god

[beeboy]

No I said it was flip flopping but it isn't alignment indicative to have your reads change more than once in incredibly early stages of the game.

[beeboy]

Beeboy how do you have 100 posts good god

Getting seniors to 5 votes was a pain.
Also I have been holding back on posts lol.

[Friendless Seniors]

hiplop you're scummy though

You still haven't addressed how Snarky "pushed" you

ugh.

why am I playing this game again?

[Friendless Seniors]

being tunneled on by two of the most stubborn players =/= fun

[Spiffeh]

wow that explanation was really sound I am seeing this game in a whole new way now

also I haven't been tunneling you at all but I get you're scum so you'll spin however you see fit

[Axelrod]

So, I went to look closer at FS and, yeah, this is a truly horrendous series of posts.

VOTE: snarky

real vote

This is exactly how Snarky plays and it surprises me both you and EP both don't know that.

Never seen snarky as scum, his push was weird.

Guess who I didn't push in MSND? Snarky. Your push on me here seems fabricated beeboy. You usually do this as town, but not to this degree. I think you're trying to play to your town meta too much

I'm a bit behind

Characterizing the

single

vote (also the single post) of SnarkytheSnowman during the very early stages as a "push" that felt "weird," in order to justify his own vote. That makes zero actual sense.

Also I still want that slot to explain the Snarky vote because they are dodging that.

I haven't been around chill out buddy.

I don't think you're scum but like if you keep pushing this I'm gonan get mad

You're going to get mad? If people keep pushing on you? Welcome to Mafia, I guess. Also, you might think that if someone you really thought was Town was pushing on you, you would be trying to, I don't know, convince them of the innocent error of their ways. As opposed to threatening them. Like that's going to be productive.

I'm largely ignoring beeboy here. I dislike how much we are being discussed. It makes no sense considering we had done nothing at the time

The way he says he "dislikes" being discussed so much. It's like, you know who doesn't like being discussed? And defending on the basis that they hadn't done anything?

ATM scum reads of varying degrees on Tictac, Seniors, Ogre, and Beeboy.

"scumread on the people beeboy is pushing AND beeboy"

this guy is fencesitting, stirring the pot and trying to get momentum on our wagon for seriously shoddy reasons.

VOTE: sircakez
sorry ep, this is the guy who needs to die

And finally the "look over there" vote. The rationale here is just bad. Seems to think you can't be suspicious of a player and also other people that player says are suspicious at the same time. Which you can, and it wouldn't be fencesitting even if you couldn't, it would be...something else. Inconsistent mindset maybe. And stirring the pot is not scummy in the first instance. Basically none of this makes any sense from a Town mindset. He's just lashing out. Feels like scum who is angry at getting caught for no good reason.

Vote: Friendless Seniors

[beeboy]

being tunneled on by two of the most stubborn players =/= fun

You are appealing to cakes here.