A Musical Mafia! (Game over)

[Mirhawk]

Oh, the Cakez stuff was all covered by Piper.

[Axelrod]

I have notes to myself to re-check Cakez case against Mirhawk, to see if it looked like the same kind of thing he was doing with his TicTac case, and also to re-read Skybird in her entirety.

[SirCakez]

I didn't say you were calling everything I posted scummy. I said it

seems

that everything I post

lately

you are finding scummy.

After reading the conversation between Cakez and Mirhawk, Mirhawk is moving up on my town list. I feel he has made some good points on Cakez.

-snip-

I still kind of think Seniors is town.

You're probably right. I don't think your wagon analysis piece was going to result in anything productive;

two town counter wagons doesn't really mean much with how the scum team was behaving.

-snip-

Why is this game dead all of a sudden
Spiffeh y did you have to die with your great activity ugh
For the tictac case - just look at his posts on the last page and tell me that's not scum.

While I'll commend Cakez if he's scum here because this post is pretty decently ballsy, this post also feels pretty incredibly fake. As I've said before, I don't mind when people read into dead town's reads and all that good stuff but following them blindly when you didn't really follow the player that closely the day before is pretty fucking iffy, and these sorts of "I'll miss you Spiffeh!" posts never really ring true to me.

What do you mean by the bolded PP? How do you know how the scum team was behaving?

In the second part of the quote, I agree with the "I'll miss you Spiffeh" sentiment ringing false. Put this quote along with the "I tried to save you Ranger" quote from Cakez and he just feels incredibly scummy today.

I'm caught back up now and I think it's time to vote.

VOTE: Sir Cakez

Criminy, I spend an afternoon outside because it finally made it over 65 degrees around here for the first time this spring and you all choose now to start voting me.

I'm having a hard time finding scum this game. I've been looking at things and re-reading but I'm just not picking up on anything. I'm not sure what I need to do to find scum right now.

These are all really scummy. Especially after reviewing her ISO earlier when doing the wall for Nacho I agree this is the right vote.
VOTE: Skybird

This is what I am talking about Cakez. You took 4 of my posts in a row and called them all scummy. That's why I said it seems like you are calling everything I post lately scummy.

First there's more backtracking here since you said I wasn't calling everything scummy in the first quote then in the second you said I did.
And how do 4 quotes = everything you posts? That's overblown.

[SirCakez]

I mean in comparison to Tarot this isn't that elaborate. Very standard roles flipped here so far.

Still think this after True Ogre v. Pistachi0n?

So far, yes, at least compared to Tarot which was the topic there.

[SirCakez]

Tictac is a much higher scumread and I was trying to crack info out of Skybird. She's posted some stuff now so back to Tictac.

Shouldn't you be switching to me if that your voting criteria? What information were you hoping to get out of Skybird, did you get what you were looking for? You must have been satisfied by her response to change your vote, why were you satisfied?

I have more then one high scumread.
Some content and scumhunting, which she did kind of, but now her posts are getting bad again.

[Skybird]

I didn't say you were calling everything I posted scummy. I said it

seems

that everything I post

lately

you are finding scummy.

After reading the conversation between Cakez and Mirhawk, Mirhawk is moving up on my town list. I feel he has made some good points on Cakez.

-snip-

I still kind of think Seniors is town.

You're probably right. I don't think your wagon analysis piece was going to result in anything productive;

two town counter wagons doesn't really mean much with how the scum team was behaving.

-snip-

Why is this game dead all of a sudden
Spiffeh y did you have to die with your great activity ugh
For the tictac case - just look at his posts on the last page and tell me that's not scum.

While I'll commend Cakez if he's scum here because this post is pretty decently ballsy, this post also feels pretty incredibly fake. As I've said before, I don't mind when people read into dead town's reads and all that good stuff but following them blindly when you didn't really follow the player that closely the day before is pretty fucking iffy, and these sorts of "I'll miss you Spiffeh!" posts never really ring true to me.

What do you mean by the bolded PP? How do you know how the scum team was behaving?

In the second part of the quote, I agree with the "I'll miss you Spiffeh" sentiment ringing false. Put this quote along with the "I tried to save you Ranger" quote from Cakez and he just feels incredibly scummy today.

I'm caught back up now and I think it's time to vote.

VOTE: Sir Cakez

Criminy, I spend an afternoon outside because it finally made it over 65 degrees around here for the first time this spring and you all choose now to start voting me.

I'm having a hard time finding scum this game. I've been looking at things and re-reading but I'm just not picking up on anything. I'm not sure what I need to do to find scum right now.

These are all really scummy.

Especially after reviewing her ISO earlier when doing the wall for Nacho I agree this is the right vote.
VOTE: Skybird

This is what I am talking about Cakez. You took 4 of my posts in a row and called them all scummy. That's why I said it seems like you are calling everything I post

lately

scummy.

First there's more backtracking here since you said I wasn't calling everything scummy in the first quote then in the second you said I did.
And how do 4 quotes = everything you posts? That's overblown.

Seriously dude, do you not understand the word "lately"?

I did not say you were calling everything scummy in the first place. I said it SEEMED like you were. I am showing that you took 4 of my most recent posts and called them scummy. See the bolded large statement from you above? See the word bolded in my response?

[Mirhawk]

Why was that acceptable? The only reason you had a more significant response than Skybird did is because you were questioned and I know that you don't see any legitimate point in Cakez's "skybird didn't use words to describe why she was leaving the wagon even though it was self-evident!" point.

I don't see it as a legitimate point either, but I'm scumreading Cakes for so many things that I didn't see much point in pursuing this one. The only reason I asked about it was I figured he should at least have to justify it somehow. Also his answer was factually correct. There isn't much more to my reasons than Skybird's, and I did only give it because I was asked about it. But there is still more.

Like seriously, this is the second time you mis represent my actions based on events that are going on which should speak for themselves.

This is... weird.
I don't think Axelrod's "how do we know you read Spiffeh's ISO" was a good one, but Axelrod didn't misrepresent you and it wasn't immediately obvious you agreed with Spiffeh's case when you didn't say anything about it.

Agree with this. I find it odd that Sakura thinks this was self evident, but she's sick and cranky so whatever.

No, it's gotta be rolecop. I'm betting Pistachions role (miller+IC) has a nonstandard name.

Why?
Granted, this looks town as fuck but why?

Process of elimintation. The only roles I can think of that would have known that he was lying would be full cop and rolecop. The rolecop for obvious reasons, and the fullcop only if he was lying about the miller part of his role.

A town cop should not have investigated a miller, period.
A scumcop would only even theoretically exist if there was more than one scum team. Also, he would be a shitty investigate for a scum cop anyways as well seeing as how they would be looking for the other scumteam, and could predict what result the investigation would reveal beforehand anyhow.

A town rolecop could have investigated him to confirm his alignment, but should have know better than to out his role if he got an IC result. So this is only possible if Pistachion has a nonstandard role name, which would have prevented Ogre from knowing he was a IC.
A scum rolecop could have investigated him to make sure he wasn't a PR hiding behind the miller claim, and also could have outed him for towncred or to confirm that they were indeed a rolecop. But if he's an IC they would similarly he lambasted for outing him. So again only possible if pistachion has a nonstandard role name.

At this point I'm waiting for Pistachion to confirm that she has a nonstandard role, but if she doesn't I have no idea whats going on.

[SirCakez]

Seriously dude, do you not understand the word "lately"?

I did not say you were calling everything scummy in the first place. I said it SEEMED like you were. I am showing that you took 4 of my most recent posts and called them scummy. See the bolded large statement from you above? See the word bolded in my response?

This is just a semantics argument now, you know what I mean.

[Mirhawk]

Dramonic is a bad lynch in general because we get very very little info from his flip and he's a ridiculously easy mislynch if he's town and easy bus if he's scum. A Vig there is probably the best way to deal with him. I still think he's town here but I'm struggling to convince everyone else and something needs to be done about him.

I would only worry about a lack of information on day one when we have none. Lots of people have chimed in on Dramonic at this point without even forming a wagon. I don't think this is a good reason to not vote him.

[Mirhawk]

The Vig will shoot whoever they shoot. People need to stop telling them to shoot their scumreads, that's dumb.

Comparing snarky with Dramonic is also stupid, Snarky was ten times more useless than Dram.

[Mirhawk]

You shoot people who are impossible to sort and could fuck over town later on. Snarky is a prime example of this.

Especially considering his naked hammer of town. Even if you were townreading snarky, that's the kind of slot you HAVE to vig. It's just too dangerous.

For the record this is also dumb. It was hours before the deadline, was he going to post a well thought out reasoned case on Ranger before hammering?

[Marquis]

To be blunt, out of the "useless" pool, I consider TWL and dramonic to probably be the worst vig choices.

[Mirhawk]

I'll protect Dram with my life if I have to.

Unless you have some kind of super awesome secret information on dram this sucks.

[Mirhawk]

2872

Yeah, Skybird never stopped being scum. I still support this.

[Axelrod]

The reason I think that Axel could easily be scum here is that all of his posts don't feel like genuine analysis but feel like he is trying to achieve a specific goal with each post. He makes sure that he has evidence for all of his claims based on some sort of theory, but its not particularly focused on game solving.

I post very deliberately. And most of my posts have specific purposes (sometimes more than one even). I am not, and have never been the seat-of-the-pants, spontaneous, or impromptu type. I don't know how you say it's not focused on game solving though.

For example take this. The way that multiquoting works is that Axel knows that I explain this later. Yet because his purpose of this post is 'push pip' he leaves it in cause it looks better even though there is no way this is an actual content since I explain this later.

Oh, I'm questioning you all right. But you think this isn't game solving?

Also, yes I know how multi-quoting works, and so do you. I'm going through the thread and flagging the posts that I want to say something about. Then, they all come up at once and this was the first one, and that was my reaction. I directly address the rest of your points in the post you made them in. You think I'm being sneaky here? Cleverly implying that you don't ever state why you think Dram is Town, while quoting your actual post immediately afterwards? That...would not be clever.

And, incidentally, for the record, you do not, in fact, explain your Dram opinion later. Not in any kind of real way. As far as i can tell, what it boils down to is "gut".

Yes, because shooting between people that I think are scum is so much worse than shooting someone I think is town...

Sure, and I'm expressing my opinion of your opinion. Which is that it is awful.

It is but you have to realize that Dram knows that this isn't a style that can get him to endgame 99% of the time. When you are below a certain post marker your posts don't really matter and the fact that he was still trying to gamesolve instead of jumping on easy targets. Also the fact that I agree with most of his reads and everyone that I'm scumreading is attacking me for townreading him makes me feel pretty good about that slot.

Why do I have to realize that "Dram knows this isn't a style that can get him to endgame?" This is your townie Dram who knows this? If he's Townie, why is he playing in a way that can't get him to endgame? Wouldn't that be dumb? I rather suspect he is trying to get to the endgame, and you (and a few others) are completely enabling him.

And he has not, at no time, tried to "gamesolve." Just repeatedly calling the same people scum over and over again is not game-solving. This is my primary issue with you right now. How do you say that with a straight face?

The thing about agreeing reads is fine - except, I would challenge you to go back and look at when Dram made these supposed "reads." Then tell me that he had any basis to be having such a "strong" opinion at the time. I would suggest he had no real basis at all, and that's at least part of the reason he's refused to give one for the entirely of the game.

Nope! 2 reasons. A). This is what you pulled in your first post which is 'even if I take what you guys are saying and his is 100% unreadable your play is still wrong' B. Yeah yell at me for calling him town but don't explain this, I get it.

I'm confused here. Are you accusing me of not explaining why I'm yelling at you for calling him town?

Again this is 'Axel needs to make sure that Dram is used for one of the MLs at some point and attack Pip" and he tries to base it on some kind of theory but this makes no sense. You don't read my post and come out with that analysis, this is analysis that came from a preconceived notion of what this post was going to be. Guess what, town tunnel, not only do they tunnel, but they tunnel all the time and it can be on town if somehow you are that. Saying that because a read is wrong they have to be mafia is super lazy and proba ly just mafia. Dram isn't in my towncircle, but I think we really really need a scumflip soon to be able to win this game and Dram isn't someone I think is particularly likely to do that.

Okay, first, I misread what you wrote, in that I thought you were saying that Town are never 100%

confident

in their reads, which made zero sense given Dram's play and your assessment of him as Town. I see now that what you were saying is that Town are never 100%

accurate

in their reads, which is obviously different. Even with that mistake, you are misrepping to say that I was ever at any time arguing that because someone has an incorrect read they have to be mafia.

Town may Tunnel, but what Dram is doing isn't even tunneling. He's just repeating the same thing over and over, but he's not engaging, he's not trying to convince anyone else, he's not making an argument. He's just doing the laziest thing possible. Can Town do that? Maybe? But I am never going to give them the benefit of that doubt. And no one else should either.

The tell is that you are coming into your posts with the intention of writing what you just wrote. Instead of adapting it to what you read.

So, basically, just the same thing as, whatever it's called when you slant everything someone posts to try and make them look as bad as possible.

Yeah, I don't do that. I don't even do that when I am scum, not that you would know or care, and not that I would expect you to. Like I said at the beginning, I always mean to write what I write.

[Mirhawk]

Yes I did, because it was an easy wagon especially towards the end so I wanted to look into the people who had been pushing it for a while off of weak reasoning, for example Mirhawk.

And did you do this? What was so weak about my case on Ranger anyways?

[Mirhawk]

I'm caught back up now and I think it's time to vote.

VOTE: Sir Cakez

I've definitely been pushing to lynch Cakez but this vote was incredibly opportunistic.

[SirCakez]

Yes I did, because it was an easy wagon especially towards the end so I wanted to look into the people who had been pushing it for a while off of weak reasoning, for example Mirhawk.

And did you do this? What was so weak about my case on Ranger anyways?

I listed it off in the wall I made for Nacho.

[Mirhawk]

These are all really scummy. Especially after reviewing her ISO earlier when doing the wall for Nacho I agree this is the right vote.
VOTE: Skybird

Hey so is this one.

[Mirhawk]

I feel like this is the coasting scum slot. I really should have been pushing this earlier but given where the game is at right now I can't ever see Mirhawk being town right now unless I am super wrong this game.

Coasting?

I've been pretty outspoken about my reads.

[Mirhawk]

Also I hate to break it to you, but you're super wrong.

[Mirhawk]

I know you didn't ask me this question, but the answer is: is this information that you have more valuable known to the Town than hidden from the scum? And that's something only you can really assess.

I know I've been speculating like a champ, but I support this sentiment.

[Mirhawk]

VOTE: the wrong lynch

this feels like scum. big time. The coasting feels like scum coasting over town coasting.

Even yesterday was primarily just butting headss with tammy rather than actual content

Yes this. The bolded part in particular.

[True Ogre]

-awakens-

Axel, quick question. If you ignore everything meta I've said about TWL so far, do you still disagree with my read?
(You're going to need to ignore my vote away from them onto Piper since that had a meta base)

I just wonder why you're spending time bellyaching about meta when there are reasons aside from that. Even if I had no knowledge of the slot I'd have been finding their activity pretty damn useless and scummy.
(And what do you think of nacho/Piper's defense of the slot?)


-
back after work, around for a bit drinking coffee for quick questions if anyone's around. Nice and bleary -chuckle-

[Mirhawk]

TAmmy and I butt heads a lot of games.

Is there some reason it consumed the entirety of your game for pretty much the whole day leaving no room for anything else.