Newbie 1700 - GAME OVER

[karnos]

How do you define "useful results". And have you got any yet?

I'd love to know how pressure votes can magically make more time for me to post over a difficult weekend, or magically make my aging laptop not play up just when I want to read and post (which is what happened last night just after I posted elsewhere and tried to come back to this).

1. Some, sure. I can't fully define what "useful" results are, but I can tell you what isn't useful: not posting, or just posting enough to say "sorry I am busy this weekend can't post" etc. To be useful, it's a requirement that the post actually contain content relevant to the game rather than simply informing the other players that you won't be posting.

2. If technical reasons are truly preventing you from posting at all, that is one thing. but when you are able to post a "can't post much" message, that kind of kills that argument. Besides, we can't just give you a free ride because you claim technical problems. If we did, it would quickly become a popular scum strategy, and beside we can't confirm if they are true or not. And heck, even if you truly are having technical issues outside the game, you could still be scum on top of it. If you are town: post from your phone, or go to a library with free computers to use. If you are scum: keep trying to hide and you will get lynched.

[cytheflyguy]

cy's trigger finger as as itchy as I've ever seen it.

Ok, tbf, I'm a person who likes to go with my gut and just...go with it. Mind you, my gut seemed to have changed a lot this game. I'll try to get better at. Lol

[karnos]

cy could have hammered and he didn't, he is showing great restraint. saying you want to hammer isn't indication of scum- actually hammering might be. Scum shouldn't want to announce that they are tempted to hammer, because the risk is that it might encourage some townies to drop votes and then the scum can't hammer the innocent he wants to hammer. I don't think it's a scum tell at all.

BTD's cop thing is *not* a scum indication at all IMO. If a scum thought x was a cop, the scum would have zero incentive to hint at that in the thread, instead being perfectly happy to kill the cop as a nightkill. Again, I don't think BTD's "outing the cop" was really a scum tell at all.

[Rob14]

Vote Count #1.9:

Huntress:

Ghostwheel, karnos, cytheflyguy (3)

BTD6_maker:

thatguy, RadiantCowbells (2)

Hoppic:

tojam2 (1)

tojam2:

Hoppic (1)

Ghostwheel:

Huntress (1)

RadiantCowbells:

BTD6_maker (1)

Not Voting:

None.

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

V/LA:

None.

Deadline:

(expired on 2016-05-03 19:00:00)

[BTD6_maker]

Voting me isn't going to make me any less reluctant to explain my reads.

Why are you so reluctant anyway? Surely explaining reads and giving information is pro-Town.

It's clear that this discussion on whether or not Thatguy is cop doesn't seem like it's going anywhere. The last page was pretty much solely about my cop read. Focusing on that to the point of almost ignoring all else definitely can't benefit Town.

Otherwise, I have two moderate scum reads: RC and Huntress.

Question: do you think that I speedvoted my partner off the bat?
Do you think that if I was intending to bus Huntress as you seem to be implying that we wouldn't have come into the day with a plan to get her lynched efficiently with me leading?

If that's not the case, you should vote Huntress who might actually be scum.
And hell, if you think we're bussing? help me bus.

I simply stated my reads here. Like I said before, I was not implying that you were bussing, but after you posted this I considered it more likely as you just assumed I thought you were bussing without me saying that you were.

VOTE: CyTheFlyGuy

Huntress stlil probs scum but this is scum 100%.

OH FUCK YOU AREN'T THE ONE WHO SAID I WAS BUSSING.

VOTE: Huntress

Sorry, got confused.

I need to reread this and organize my thoughts.

VOTE: BTD6

I do still think that Huntress is likely to be scum.
But this is scum, 100%. I'll walk you thorugh it when I"m sober.

So from what I gather, you think I'm 100% scum just because I once mentioned that I consider you bussing Huntress to be slightly more likely? That logic doesn't hold up. You are probably trying to misrepresent me. In fact, you suggested I thought you were bussing before I actually thought you were bussing.

I get a very strong scum vibe from this. This makes it more likely that you are bussing (you assumed I thought you were bussing just because I had two scumreads) and also more likely that you are trying to push a mislynch wagon (by trying to get me or even Town to vote Huntress instead of you). If you are bussing, surely it's as pro-Town to vote you as to vote Huntress.

I think you are trying to manipulate us into voting Huntress. It doesn't change my moderate-scum Huntress read (you could be bussing or mislynching) but it gives me a strong scumread about you.

I make no secret of the fact that I'm trying to get you to vote Huntress.
If you want to call it 'manipulation', so be it.
I want Huntress voted because I think she's scum. end discussion.
I think that this is a strong contender for scum with Huntress because of how he deals with this without calling Huntress town; if he was scumreading both of us together after all, he should have no issues voting Huntress?

This slot is sketchy AF.

Equally, if I scumread both of you, I should have no issues voting for you. However, then I had a considerably stronger scumread on you than Huntress so I didn't want to change my vote. Later my scumreads on you and Huntress were roughly equal and Ghostwheel suggested that I should pressure. Later, I tried to relieve the pressure somewhat because too many people were over-anxious to hammer. Now my scumread for you has increased again.

In short, there are times when I'm fine with voting either of you and times when I want to vote one of you only so saying that I should be fine with voting any scumread at all times doesn't make much sense.


Thus is why I get a strong feeling that RC is trying to mislead us all. Also, the fact that he rarely explains his reads is not helping. His "100%" read on me really needs some explanation, preferably sooner rather than later. This is not to say that I don't consider Huntress as a scumread. She's still a moderate scumread of mine but RC is strong.

[tojam2]

@Huntress:

2. Exactly, why would he post at 4 a.m. except for those reasons, I think I mentioned that he could be worried about getting lynched as scum.

I think I've already answered you next question - you're buying time.
If I wait too long we won't get a lynch on the scummiest person, because interest drops, it's already happened in fact.
I don't know when you're going to post, for all I care you could have posted every 47.99 hours but you wouldn't have been prodded.

@Hoppic: Now is not the time for random votes, a bit of context is required.

VOTE: Huntress

L-1

[cytheflyguy]

cy could have hammered and he didn't, he is showing great restraint.

She's at L1 and I'm doing everything in my power not to go with my gut and just end this T.T

I want to wait a little while more until more people thinks she's scum before I do the hammer.

[cytheflyguy]

Oh wait lol I can't bc I already voted for her

#BlondMoment

[BTD6_maker]

The wagon has not lost interest. At least 6 people (the wagon, me, and RC) have expressed interest in lynching. Of course, I don't want to lynch too prematurely. Thatguy and Hoppic should express their views on Huntress before a consensus is reached.

Huntress, if you have anything to claim or say in your defence, speak now. We are getting close to a lynch.

[Huntress]

The wagon has not lost interest. At least 6 people (the wagon, me, and RC) have expressed interest in lynching. Of course, I don't want to lynch too prematurely. Thatguy and Hoppic should express their views on Huntress before a consensus is reached.

Huntress, if you have anything to claim or say in your defence, speak now. We are getting close to a lynch.

What do you want me to defend against? As far as I can see the only case you've given against me is in 165, where you claimed I had "a list of bad cases". Which was a bit of an exaggeration as I think I had only mentioned two reads up to that point, the first of which I had already admitted was weak.

Cy seems to have conceded that the two points he made against me had no basis in fact and now just accuses me of being "on the defense".

Tojam said he couldn't see me as scum, then in his next post said he would have no choice but to lynch me if I didn't claim. No case at all. (Note that in his 13 posts he has voted six different people.)

Karnos appears to be voting me for a difference of opinion about the value of pressure voting. He said he had to pick the scummiest person between Hoppic and I, but I don't think he explained why he chose us two.

RC actually made a case in 222 which I have replied to in 232 and am still waiting for his comments on that.

And I think I have replied to everything that Ghost has said.


I've got a few other posts to respond to and then I will probably claim, if only because the way people are digging their heels in on this is causing the game to stall and I don't want to leave it to get too close to deadline. But I'm reluctant because three of the people on the wagon seem to have no real reason for being there.

[Huntress]

Edit to add: and the fourth is my strongest scumread.

[Huntress]

Or maybe it's the other way around. Either way, it's like there's a connection between ghostwheel and btd6. Not a scummy connection, necessarily, but something going on there. Does anyone else think so?

Yes. I think it's more likely to be scum buddying town but I wouldn't rule out a partnership, or the less likely possibilty of town sheeping town.

1. Some, sure. I can't fully define what "useful" results are, but I can tell you what isn't useful: not posting, or just posting enough to say "sorry I am busy this weekend can't post" etc. To be useful, it's a requirement that the post actually contain content relevant to the game rather than simply informing the other players that you won't be posting.

2. If technical reasons are truly preventing you from posting at all, that is one thing. but when you are able to post a "can't post much" message, that kind of kills that argument. Besides, we can't just give you a free ride because you claim technical problems. If we did, it would quickly become a popular scum strategy, and beside we can't confirm if they are true or not. And heck, even if you truly are having technical issues outside the game, you could still be scum on top of it. If you are town: post from your phone, or go to a library with free computers to use. If you are scum: keep trying to hide and you will get lynched.

1. Which player or players are you referring to here?

2. Pardon? What are you talking about here? If you were referring to my note in the last para of 226 I was just using as an example the fact that my laptop glitched at 1 am in the morning, so I went to bed and left the follow up to 203, which I had already posted, to the next day rather than send it then. Nowhere did I claim it would prevent me posting on an alternate device if necessary. Nor did I post a "can't post much" message, so I don't know where you are getting that from.

[Hoppic]

Yeah, I'm null on huntress. I can't understand why there's such a wagon on her, and she's right that nobody has given good reasons and actually karnos, cy and tojam have seemed to jump on the wagon for no good reason at all. Also, radiantcowbells said that he read her meta, when he's never played with her as town before. And ghostwheels and btg6 have been strange all along. However, they can't all be scum. At least four of those people must be town, and so they must be seeing scummy behavior in Huntress. Maybe it's a huntress and thatguy scum team.

On the other hand, I think that wagons get up the quickest when there's scum on them, and this wagon got up really quickly over nothing, so my guess is that there's scum on it. So I would prefer NOT to vote for huntress.

We're getting close to the end, though, so we should vote for someone. I'd like to vote for karnos or tojam, but nobody's supporting me on that. So how about we vote for Cy? Everyone seems to scum read him.

VOTE: cytheflyguy

[Huntress]

@Huntress:

2. Exactly, why would he post at 4 a.m. except for those reasons, I think I mentioned that he could be worried about getting lynched as scum.

How well do you know karnos? Is that a meta thing for him?

@ karnos:

What do you think about what tojam is saying about you here and in 188?

I think I've already answered you next question - you're buying time.
If I wait too long we won't get a lynch on the scummiest person, because interest drops, it's already happened in fact.

Yes, I'm buying time. Time for us to discuss more, get more reads, and provide more information for use in later Days. So let's put this another way: why don't you want the town to have that time?

I don't know when you're going to post, for all I care you could have posted every 47.99 hours but you wouldn't have been prodded.

Just check the activity overview. You'll see that I'm posting an average of two to three times a day; so that little dig at me missed its target.

@ Hoppic:

Can I interest you in a lynch on Ghost? Although unfortunately I don't think enough people will go for that. Otherwise I'd prefer switching to karnos but I'm ok with both cy and tojam.

[Hoppic]

@ Hoppic:

Can I interest you in a lynch on Ghost? Although unfortunately I don't think enough people will go for that. Otherwise I'd prefer switching to karnos but I'm ok with both cy and tojam.

Idk. Everyone seems a bit scummy to me, and obviously most people are town. At least Ghostwheel has a lot to say, unlike the other three. Cy posts a lot, but he doesn't give much information with his posts.

Thatguy hasn't posted for two days now. Will he get replaced?

[RadiantCowbells]

Alright, consider this intent to hammer Huntress.

I really don't like teh way she's appealing for more time and discrediting my meta read on her without fighting me about it.

[Hoppic]

I hope you're right then, radiantcowbells. It seems unlikely, though.

[RadiantCowbells]

You not have an issue with her implying that my meta read on her is falsified and not scumreading me for it?

[Hoppic]

You not have an issue with her implying that my meta read on her is falsified and not scumreading me for it?

True. Okay. Let's kill her.

VOTE: huntress

[Ghostwheel]

Woah Woah, Hoppic. I didn't expect that from you after we went over proper etiquette like 5 times and after you've seemed so cool headed and after you called tojam out on the exact same behavior, and after you had seemed so unconvinced about huntress.

This makes no sense.

Please let this be a good lynch.

[Huntress]

That was out of the blue. And after I had said I would be claiming? I was just waiting for some response to my last few posts before doing so.

Ok, Hoppic has claimed scum with that move and should be lynched for it Day two, so at least some good has come out of it. But who's the partner? That last post from Ghost pings me a lot but it could equally well be RC or possibly tojam. That's just going on the overnight posts. From earlier on karnos or Ghost would be my best bets. I have one other thing to mention but I'll save that for the dead thread.

@ RC:

The only reason you weren't on my scum list was due to poe. I had too many scum reads. And I've had people read my meta wrong before so I assumed you had read some of my town games and were doing the same. I would have paid more attention to you in later Days if we both were still alive.

[Hoppic]

I'm not scum. I voted because RC had already said he would, so you were going to get lynched anyway. I wanted to talk about karnos and tojem being scum, but nobody would even discuss it because they're so fixated on you. I didn't read you as scum but, as I said, there would have to be at least three townies who do. Maybe they can see something I can't. This is my first game on here. Maybe I'm missing something. That's what I was thinking, and, in any case, no progress can be made while everyone is huntress huntress huntresss.

If I got it wrong, I'm sorry.

[Hoppic]

Yeah, and don't act so surprised, Ghostwheel. You've been pushing for this lynch the whole time.

[Huntress]

In future always wait for a claim, then give people time to discuss the claim, before hammering. The only exception to this is when you are getting close to deadline. And by close I mean a few hours, not a few days.

When you get to lylo don't be too quick to vote. Wait for a consensus, as scum can follow with their votes quickly to win the game after any townie has voted another townie.



One thing that strengthened my scum read on Ghost was he stayed on the wagon despite the badness of the votes that followed his. A townie should have been wary of that and backed off a bit.

Karnos appears to be voting me for a difference of opinion about the value of pressure voting. He said he had to pick the scummiest person between Hoppic and I, but I don't think he explained why he chose us two.

Maybe I know the reason now. Scumreading your partner and another, and the voting the other, is a fairly common scum tactic. Karnos's comments on me related to game theory, not alignment tells, and were blown out of proportion.

[Huntress]

I'm not scum. I voted because RC had already said he would, so you were going to get lynched anyway. I wanted to talk about karnos and tojem being scum, but nobody would even discuss it because they're so fixated on you. I didn't read you as scum but, as I said, there would have to be at least three townies who do. Maybe they can see something I can't. This is my first game on here. Maybe I'm missing something. That's what I was thinking, and, in any case, no progress can be made while everyone is huntress huntress huntresss.

If I got it wrong, I'm sorry.

Then you should have left it to RC to hammer. Didn't you read where I said I was going to claim because the game was stalling? And I was engaging both karnos and tojam. There was nothing stopping you questioning them too, or talking to others about them.