A Musical Mafia! (Game over)

[Cerberus v666]

Maybe cakez I guess? :/

My personal PoE pool is pretty small, actually, but nobody stands out in it.

[The Pied Piper]

That shitty little "but wait, there's more!~" attempt

He's right. There is more.
So either we're lying and digging a deeper hole about the thing that's pissing off everyone so much, or, and bear with me here, THERE ACTUALLY IS MORE.

"We were crumbing an innocent on tictac."
"Why, what information role do you have?"
"We don't have an information role."
"Oh, so you are lying???"
"No, we crumbed an innocent on tictac because he said some shit in our neighborhood that seemed really town."
"Why would you do this?"
"Well, tictac is bulletproof and we told him to activate his bulletproof because we thought the vig shot him."
"Why did you think this?"

etc.
We're still getting asked questions, we're still getting asked to explain further. Yes, there is more.

[Cerberus v666]

I think it's like cakez/podo/pip/dwlee? +axel/mirhawk, as people I don't have great cause to townread (though pip did replace beeboy, who at the end I was townreading? ) The first 4 are like null-null scum though, at worst.

[The Pied Piper]

that mudslinging at people who actually see you're BSing

Dramonic accusing us of "mudslinging" is ridiculous considering the source, but EVEN IGNORING THAT, Plot was saying that it's annoying as hell that people continuously pester us to reveal information that is pretty obviously anti-town when there isn't any scum motivation in revealing that we had it other than fending off lynch pressure that, again, didn't exist, and that they had trouble believing that somehow all those townies were that annoyingly stupid.

[The Pied Piper]

that awful speculation based on vig requests,

I could explain why we're confident that Cakez is the Vig, but that seems pretty fucking anti-town and pretty fucking stupid. I'd love to know how "incorrectly speculating who the vig is" is a scumtell, though!

[The Pied Piper]

that appeasement aimed @TO,

I don't know what post this is referring to. I don't feel like looking it up because Plot's response seems to imply that he's referring to the post where Plot said that they were sick of talking with Ogre when it wasn't getting anywhere and that actually sounds like the opposite of appeasement for some strange reason but I'm sure that I'm missing something ~magical~ that only dramonic can see.

[The Pied Piper]

Wow, what an awesome and substantial post! And so pretty too! Kudos, dramonic.

[The Pied Piper]

Dwlee99 - I like Dwlee's posting. Despite the fact that he's been going hard on Piper for the whole game, he still seem connected with the goings-ons of the rest of the town. I wish he would branch out a little to look for Pipers partners, but aside from that I think he's pretty town.

"Connected with the goings-on of the rest of the town". What game are you reading and can I replace into that one and out of this one? What has Dwlee done other than tunnel us this entire game? How has he shown awareness with what's going on with the rest of the town when he barely shows awareness with what's going on with us?

[The Pied Piper]

itlepip - Pip, oh pip. I tried for a long time to preserve my Beeboy read, but it's pretty much gone now. I'm going to start by saying that I really hope you are scum pip, Because if this is your towngame then I don't really know what to say. Pip entered the game with three scumreads (I think the first two were Axel and Podo, but I can't really remember) the last was me. I was by far the weakest read, with his opinion on me not even being scum but rather "mirhawk made some posts I don't really like" or something like that. He voted and engaged both of his other "actual scumreads but got solidly shut down on both of them almost immediately after voting for them. Then seeing as how I was the only one he had left he immediately switched me to "OMG mirhawk is so super scum" for no apparent reason. He's been hardpushing me ever since without really doing much of anything to justify this position. He asked me a couple pages ago why I thought Piper where Piper lied (which is surprising as that makes him the only one of you mooks other then Ogre to show even the slightest interest in talking to me about it), but then in a bizarre twist completely ignored my response to him where I told him where the relevant posts were. He keeps saying things like I'm confirmed as scum, or if I flip town the game is bastard, but is providing absolutely so indication as to where this ironclad certainty on his read came from. Honestly I'm labeling him as scum, because I can't imagine he's this bad at being town.

Pip's first significant read was a scumread on tictac.
His first read's list had Axel as maybe town but maybe scum based on a specific tell, FS could be scum for ass backwards reads and was frustrating in general, didn't like you for your Ranger push, didn't like Podo for the 834 readslist, Sakura was ?, Tictac scum but improving, Skybird null. He had a theory that you and tictac were strongly connected. Attacked Podo in order to sheep dram (strong townread), read evolved to scumreading him for pushing a policy lynch. Started to read Podo as town (I think?), swapped to Axel. Switched to Skybird. Reread Skybird, thought she might be town, swapped to you. Reiterated case on Axel, continued pushing you.

Your characterization of Itle having you as "by far" his weakest read is either not reading or not understanding how fluid his scumreads were early game: he didn't have you as "the only one left" of the scumreads he could push; the only one that he got major pushback for was his Podo read. I don't even see where the Piper thing happened but I'd love for you to point it out to me.

[dramonic]

You could have made one big post instead of separating everything, it's a hassle to reply to <_<

-Plot literally asked people to TRUST your slot. There is zero reason to trust your slot, there is no solid evidence to your alignment. So no, "trust us it'll make sense" is a bullshit stance and a thinly veiled attempted at an Appeal to your own Authority. Furthermore you think you know how the newbs play better than the newb themselves. The only way you could be THIS confident is... obvious. I am eagerly awaiting for the " I told you so!~" posts from your slot when tictac flips town.
-You have been crumbing speculative results and treating them as gospel, further using those (fake) results to push your agenda, most obvious case being driving the lynch off of tictac based on getting neighborized. That is flimsy
-I don't think what I do (call everyone trash) and what Plot is doing (call anyone who disagrees with her opinion on information dispensal antitown) really fit on the same scale, but whatever. half-baked crumbs read bull is absurdly scummy to do and pretending people hounding you on it are antitown is ludicrous anyways.
-vig spec goes back to "WE HAVE INFO!~" that is pretty obviously a lie, pushed further by the fact cakez counterclaimed your ass. Speculating on people's role is null, pretending your speculations are gospel is not.
-the TO appeasment post is 46...something? I'd have to self-ISO, I noted it when I commented on it. Apparently Plot tries to do it as either alignment (DISTUUUUUUUURBING) so I'm willing to negotiate on that point.
-It WAS pretty, don't be a bitter boy just because you're not fooling everyone bby.


DISCLAIMER: Apologies if I used the wrong pronouns at some point IRT plot.

[The Pied Piper]

The rest of your reads are weak, lazy, or/and insubstantial. I do think that bringing up the miller situation that it took you approximately 100 pages to get out of was something that you were far more likely to do as town than as scum, and I think that your reads don't really line up how I'd expect them to if you were scum; don't expect FS to fall as flat null if they're a partner or if they're town, you hedge on people you can safely call town as scum and you attack people who aren't getting lynched and who have a louder voice and more cred than you do.

[pistachi0n]

UNVOTE: Mirhawk
VOTE: Piper

Why do you keep unvoting Mirhawk? We have less than a day left.

[The Pied Piper]

-Plot literally asked people to TRUST your slot. There is zero reason to trust your slot, there is no solid evidence to your alignment. So no, "trust us it'll make sense" is a bullshit stance and a thinly veiled attempted at an Appeal to your own Authority. Furthermore you think you know how the newbs play better than the newb themselves. The only way you could be THIS confident is... obvious. I am eagerly awaiting for the " I told you so!~" posts from your slot when tictac flips town.

Oh god, Plot asked people to TRUST US. How utterly, utterly terrible!
Mirhawk was asked to trust us because while both playerslots have done things in the past that people didn't understand in the time, neither of us are known for doing things as town that are incredibly stupid for no fucking reason. Mirhawk didn't understand why we were softing an innocent on tictac to Cakez. We explained it, he understood. This situation is like that one; we have reasons for playing it the way that we are and explaining it is anti-town so maybe stop pestering us about it? The appeal to authority shit is a nonsense argument; asking people to trust us because we can't fully explain ourselves isn't an appeal to authority, it's asking people to trust us. An Appeal to Authority would be "vote him, he's obviously scum, you're all idiots for not seeing it" which sounds an awfully lot like what you're doing but nothing like what we're doing. Funny, that.

And yes, I think that I play better than someone brand new to the game when I have been playing it for 7 years. I don't think that this is an unreasonable or horrendously arrogant assumption to make. Are you really trying to argue this point?

[The Pied Piper]

-You have been crumbing speculative results and treating them as gospel, further using those (fake) results to push your agenda, most obvious case being driving the lynch off of tictac based on getting neighborized. That is flimsy

We've been crumbing reads that we have based on inside information, and we crumbed it to the vig because the vig thought that his failed shot was added evidence for a player that we have pretty great reasons to think is town for being scum. We've been treating them as gospel because we're confident, just like a little owl that I know that's treating his scumreads like gospel because he's confident. We haven't described why we think that Cakez is the vig in detail because this seems incredibly and stupidly anti-town, but it really wouldn't be too difficult to do that.

[The Pied Piper]

-I don't think what I do (call everyone trash) and what Plot is doing (call anyone who disagrees with their opinion on information dispensal antitown) really fit on the same scale, but whatever. half-baked crumbs read bull is absurdly scummy to do and pretending people hounding you on it are antitown is ludicrous anyways.

You're correct. Calling people trash for not sharing your reads is ACTUALLY mudslinging while calling people anti-town for attempting to powerroles is not mudslinging. It is not on the same scale at all. Half-baked crumbs: where were our crumbs half-baked? We said that we thought tictac was town. We crumbed this to the vig. We said that we weren't explaining it because explaining it was equivalent to outing power roles. These are half-baked crumbs, these are pretty full crumbs and crumbing isn't scummy unless you can assign scum motivation to it, which I'm pretty sure you're incapable of unless you have some actually not-shit reasoning that you've been hiding up your sleeve for some unspeakable reason.

[Cerberus v666]

Plot....did outline a number of quotes pointing to the vig connection for cakez. So....I don't really know what extra information you have thar you could share about it.

I don't actually understand why cakez, as a vig, would think it more likely that tictac was scum because his shot failed. BP is NAI when multiple teams have killing abilities. Why did you guys think he'd view it as extra cause to suspect tictac?

[The Pied Piper]

-vig spec goes back to "WE HAVE INFO!~" that is pretty obviously a lie, pushed further by the fact cakez counterclaimed your ass. Speculating on people's role is null, pretending your speculations are gospel is not.

Vig spec goes back to we had info: the information was neighborhood posting only we were privvy to and the knowledge that tictac activated a bulletproof last night. That's information. That's not a lie. If Cakez was the vig, do you think he would go "great job guys! i'm actually the vig!"? No. He wouldn't, because that's completely idiotic, so using that as "cakez counterclaiming our ass" is dumb. Still interested why confidence is apparently scummy when you're dripping with it. Is it because we're only supposed to be confident about scum/town reads and being confident about anything else automatically means that we're scum?

[The Pied Piper]

Plot....did outline a number of quotes pointing to the vig connection for cakez. So....I don't really know what extra information you have thar you could share about it.

I don't actually understand why cakez, as a vig, would think it more likely that tictac was scum because his shot failed. BP is NAI when multiple teams have killing abilities. Why did you guys think he'd view it as extra cause to suspect tictac?

I can address counterarguments, and I can explain why I agreed that Cakez is the vig. Do you want me to elaborate? Do you think that elaborating if I am correct is a good move? Do you think that I would say that I could provide more information if I couldn't, regardless of alignment?

Cakez shoots tictac and tictac doesn't die. If Tictac is scum, possible explanations: scum blocked Cakez because they thought he was the vig about to shoot tictac. Scum protected tictac because they thought he was a likely vig shot. Tictac is bulletproof to counter Cakez. If tictac is town, tictac is bulletproof. If I shot a strong scumread of mine and they didn't die, I would probably double my efforts in getting them lynched the next day too.

[The Pied Piper]

Cerb, do you see why I'm townreading Mirhawk?

[The Pied Piper]

You could have made one big post instead of separating everything, it's a hassle to reply to <_<

It's an annoyance to reply to you so it's good to know that I can get under your skin a tiny little bit by making posting more shit comments directed towards us just a little bit harder

[The Pied Piper]

UNVOTE: Mirhawk
VOTE: Piper

Why do you keep unvoting Mirhawk? We have less than a day left.

Would you vote FS if it was viable?

[itlepip]

Why is mir town pipe?

[Cerberus v666]

Plot....did outline a number of quotes pointing to the vig connection for cakez. So....I don't really know what extra information you have thar you could share about it.

I don't actually understand why cakez, as a vig, would think it more likely that tictac was scum because his shot failed. BP is NAI when multiple teams have killing abilities. Why did you guys think he'd view it as extra cause to suspect tictac?

I can address counterarguments, and I can explain why I agreed that Cakez is the vig. Do you want me to elaborate? Do you think that elaborating if I am correct is a good move? Do you think that I would say that I could provide more information if I couldn't, regardless of alignment?

Cakez shoots tictac and tictac doesn't die. If Tictac is scum, possible explanations: scum blocked Cakez because they thought he was the vig about to shoot tictac. Scum protected tictac because they thought he was a likely vig shot. Tictac is bulletproof to counter Cakez. If tictac is town, tictac is bulletproof. If I shot a strong scumread of mine and they didn't die, I would probably double my efforts in getting them lynched the next day too.

A town protective could have also protected him for the same reason. And cakez being blocked, could have happened independent of tictac alignment.

Plus...it's entirely possible the vig could have simply NOT shot last night. Maybe they have limited shots? Maybe they have a non-consecitive limitation. Maybe they just didn't have anybody whose death they felt was likely to improve the game state for town?

Your conclusion is, like, ridiculous and way too focused on one possibility, rather than all of them.

And, I didn't see anything in your recent posting that looked like you were townreading mirhawk.

[The Pied Piper]

@Itle:

The rest of your reads are weak, lazy, or/and insubstantial. I do think that bringing up the miller situation that it took you approximately 100 pages to get out of was something that you were far more likely to do as town than as scum, and I think that your reads don't really line up how I'd expect them to if you were scum; don't expect FS to fall as flat null if they're a partner or if they're town, you hedge on people you can safely call town as scum and you attack people who aren't getting lynched and who have a louder voice and more cred than you do.

The rest of the read is mostly founded on him sounding genuine and his play making no sense coming from a scum perspective, but I'll expand on this when I'm done catching up.

[The Pied Piper]

A town protective could have also protected him for the same reason. And cakez being blocked, could have happened independent of tictac alignment.

Plus...it's entirely possible the vig could have simply NOT shot last night. Maybe they have limited shots? Maybe they have a non-consecitive limitation. Maybe they just didn't have anybody whose death they felt was likely to improve the game state for town?

Your conclusion is, like, ridiculous and way too focused on one possibility, rather than all of them.

And, I didn't see anything in your recent posting that looked like you were townreading mirhawk.

You said "why do you think that he'd regard a failed shot as reason to push tictac" but you're responding like my answer wasn't referring to that.