Micro 609: DC Dual Universes uPick - Game over!

[lilith2013]

Why isn't my read list good?

I think my read list is very good.

Sweetie, it just isn't.

MoI, Clumsy, lane, and I don't belong in the tiers we're in.

Also this is weird because TTH is supposedly townreading Clumsy and Magna to some extent so not sure why she has an issue with you also townreading them.

[lilith2013]

Sorry, we're heading through airport security so I'll respond to your readslist fully when we get to the gate.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Wow Kuroi made an effort post. Where the hell was that on Earth1? I disagree with some of the reads (Clumsy is getting too much Town credit for reasons I’m about to disclose, Don’t see how you get Telltale at anything but Null so far) I don’t see that much effort if the goal is to push on Snarky when I’ve been the most viable wagon so far.

Since Lane replaced out I’m never getting the answer I was asking for from him so on to my explanation that Lilith was inquiring about –

Setting aside that “Why are you Alive” is a crappy argument in and of itself – the fact that “Why is Magna Alive” was even jokingly floated as a reason to vote me is scummy. I’ve seen it thrown at me as scum in the past early in games when I don’t die and someone else does. But the specific reason why I’d lean on it actually being a possible alignment tell is the following –

Xkfyu has been killed!

On Earth-Two, he was J'onn J'onnz, Superhero Body Double

Nobody has blinked at this flip other than to remark “Huh, Xk died”. Read his role again – Body Double. This isn’t what I’d call standard terminology for MS but that flip to me reads pretty clearly as a Bodyguard. I mean that’s exactly what a Body Double is … someone you stands in for someone else.

I’d wager very likely that Xk bodyguarded me last Night and that’s’ why he’s dead.

And not a single one of you even put any effort into parsing that flip. It is why Clumsy getting Town cred for his “decipher the Earth1 reasons why Xk was killed” post is unwarranted – it is predicated on Xk being directly killed as opposed to taking a bullet for someone else.

And why I immediately twigged to at least a couple of people using the "Why isn't MoI Dead?" as a basis for an early wagon, no matter how thin the reasoning is later admitted to being. I've seen scum make this exact play in the past.

@Lilith and Kuroi

– why didn’t you think more clearly about Xk’s flip?

[lilith2013]

I will start by discussing Earth Two. I'll possibly discuss Earth One Clumsy and Earth Two Clumsy at another time. For right now, I've promised an extensive read list.
To reiterate, this only covers Earth Two - starting at 699

lilith2013:
745 Second time I've read this post. I liked it the first time I've read it. I still don't dislike it. It sounds fair to ask and while it may be throwing shade, I can see town asking that.
780 Coming by this again, I

really

don't like this. Then she voted me again the day after. If she really thought MoI was scum, she should have stayed by that. Then she voted me. Then she said this was a joke. ...This collection of posts just brought her into scum territory.
- Slight gut town feeling, although it's hard to feel this way when everything she says and does makes me want to vote her.
- 830 Good question coming from Lilith. Good enough to put her back to null.
- Most of Page 34 with MoI appear to be TvT.

Again: what about the back-and-forth between MoI and me makes you think it's TvT?
I did say my vote was only half-serious, and everyone seems to have the impression that I was actually pushing for a lynch, when all I was trying to do was produce some discussion to get the game back going. My unvote was because with him VLA, the pressure on him wouldn't even achieve anything, and I can always come back and vote him when he is around to respond to pressure.

What about 830 is good/towny to you?

Why am I null if the argument was a TvT?

MagnaOfIllusion:
720 Going through again, I actually really liked this post.
832 Enjoyable and strong comeback post.
- Most of Page 34 with Lilith seems to be TvT

I'm actually going to agree with (Snarky?). The strength of your Magna read seems to be based on little, given how few lines you've devoted to his ISO.

Clumsy:
- General rule. Clumsy is speaking with all of us in a very fluid and natural motion. Gut feeling he's town.
- 769 This is the first post I didn't like and I just noticed it now. The vibe I'm getting from, "I'm not sure how I feel about this, but I'll get back to you" doesn't feel genuine.
- He delivers a wall on 771. It looks like a lost, but appears to be some fluff. My gut still says town, but no longer strong town. More like lean town.
- Agree with 793. Lane's logic is flawed.
- 834 If you're going to make such a statement and declare someone town, backing your case with, "gut" is weak support.

The way you talk about him in points 2, 3, and 5 sounds like you're leaning scum on him but then you somehow end up with a townlean?? You call him ungenuine and say his argument is weak and his posts are fluffy but somehow that adds up to town. Which confuses me.

lane0168:
701 This post came off as awkward. I see this as a joke and I'd find it awkward for Lane to come off attacking me without knowing a single thing about my Earth Two play style, but I still found it kind of awkward. I dismissed it as RVS.
706 This is where I took a hard stance on if I liked something or not, and I didn't. I didn't like Lane's suggestion that we decided if we were the same alignment. The only possible way someone would say something was if Javajoe was lynched Earth One as scum and is alive on Earth Two. The other idea would be if Lane thought we were idiots, and I'd be offended on a personal level.
714 Almost makes me want to take what I said before. It would either go back to "Does he really think people will fall for this?" or "Does he not really know why he'd do that."
756 I do not like his reasoning for voting MoI.

Not really much to say about this. Lane hasn't been obvtowning for me like he usually does but then neither has he done anything outrageously scummy. Why don't you like his reasons for his MoI vote?

Javajoe24:
- General gut feeling of town.
812 - I hope this is a prod dodge, because this post just seems kind of useless, shouting, "HEY SCUM! I'M A POWER ROLE!"

I think you've used "gut" for half of your reads.

TellTaleHeart
717 And here we have riddles for posts. I don't town read it like I did before, especially since he didn't post much after this. Actually, why isn't he prodded?
736 Naked vote. No reason. No background. No indication. Nothing.

I'm good with the first two points.

785 Usually, a v/la means you'd offer less content, not stagnate the amount.

Can you explain this last one? It seems a little pointless to say this?

SnarkySnowman:
713 - I was actually pinged by Snowman's laziness at an RVS. It's not everyday that these posts ping me, but they do.
762 - Shortly is actually quite a long time, eh? At least if he calls my penis short, it may not be so bad.
787 - Useless. This reeks of coasting.
820 - Thanks for telling us how this game works. We know. Want to... uhhh... y'know... be useful?

Okay. I guess I agree with you on these points but they don't add up to a scumread for me yet. Just some suspicion, I guess.

Read List:
Strong Town: MoI
Lean Town: JavaJoe, Clumsy
Null: Lilith
Lean Scum: Lane, TTH
Strong Scum: Snowman

Overall: I don't get the "strong" townread on MoI. I can see the townleans on joe and clumsy. I'm leaning scum on TTH myself. Not sure about lane slot but I think your reasoning is fine for a scumlean on D1. I think the strength of a snarky scumread at this point is a little unfounded, and this is the read I think I have the most issue with, but it has to do with your read on Snarky on earth one. After Snarky's response to you I can certainly see what your current reasoning for a Snarky scumread would be (but don't know if I agree with it).

Back to Clumsy - I know I've not mentioned Earth One in this post, but I'm sure I've posted well enough on Earth One's Day One why I scum read you. Do you think I've sufficiently proved why I town read you now?

Following up on interactions with Clumsy, that's good.

[lilith2013]

MoI: honestly I didn't even look at the flip that closely. I vaguely remembered his role being body double but didn't make the connection to bodyguard. You make a good point.

[lilith2013]

Hey TTH, you actually voted me in 736.. So my 789 which you claim to be the reason for voting me could not possibly have been the actual reason.

This actually really bothers me, why would TTH provide a fake reason for voting me when she could have simply said "it was an RVS vote"?

[KuroiXHF]

I have a lot to respond to. I'll get to that later.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Setting aside that “Why are you Alive” is a crappy argument in and of itself – the fact that “Why is Magna Alive” was even jokingly floated as a reason to vote me is scummy. I’ve seen it thrown at me

by

scum in the past early in games when I don’t die and someone else does. But the specific reason why I’d lean on it actually being a possible alignment tell is the following –

EBWOP ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

So Snarky’s 859 is really, really out of proportion to what I would expect from someone garnering a vote. And everyone remember when I claimed I had meta for reading Snarky? Well 862 is the kind of post I expect from scum!Snarky. Lots of quotes, lots of words that look like they are asserting scumminess but aren’t really.

Top it off with him disagreeing with all Kuroi’s reads but not explaining who belongs where in a proper readlist and I come up with the following.

VOTE: Snarky

Alright-y, I'm all caught up and so far I have townreads on Clumsy

Elaborate …

Hey TTH, you actually voted me in 736.. So my 789 which you claim to be the reason for voting me could not possibly have been the actual reason.

I’d really like to see Telltale’s answer for this also.

[Clumsy]

Probably going to reply out of order here, doing multiple things at a time here. Also, hi Ranger! Are you following me around in games?

Wow Kuroi made an effort post. Where the hell was that on Earth1? I disagree with some of the reads (Clumsy is getting too much Town credit for reasons I’m about to disclose, Don’t see how you get Telltale at anything but Null so far) I don’t see that much effort if the goal is to push on Snarky when I’ve been the most viable wagon so far.

Since Lane replaced out I’m never getting the answer I was asking for from him so on to my explanation that Lilith was inquiring about –

Setting aside that “Why are you Alive” is a crappy argument in and of itself – the fact that “Why is Magna Alive” was even jokingly floated as a reason to vote me is scummy. I’ve seen it thrown at me as scum in the past early in games when I don’t die and someone else does. But the specific reason why I’d lean on it actually being a possible alignment tell is the following –

Xkfyu has been killed!

On Earth-Two, he was J'onn J'onnz, Superhero Body Double

Nobody has blinked at this flip other than to remark “Huh, Xk died”. Read his role again – Body Double. This isn’t what I’d call standard terminology for MS but that flip to me reads pretty clearly as a Bodyguard. I mean that’s exactly what a Body Double is … someone you stands in for someone else.

I’d wager very likely that Xk bodyguarded me last Night and that’s’ why he’s dead.

And not a single one of you even put any effort into parsing that flip. It is why Clumsy getting Town cred for his “decipher the Earth1 reasons why Xk was killed” post is unwarranted – it is predicated on Xk being directly killed as opposed to taking a bullet for someone else.

And why I immediately twigged to at least a couple of people using the "Why isn't MoI Dead?" as a basis for an early wagon, no matter how thin the reasoning is later admitted to being. I've seen scum make this exact play in the past.

@Lilith and Kuroi

– why didn’t you think more clearly about Xk’s flip?

This is very interesting. I saw that and meant to look it up... and totally didn't. I was thinking it was something similar to a bodyguard, but I admit that I assumed (which is badwrong) that it was just a random target that got lucky. I mean, the odds of the bodyguard and the scum picking the same target in the night is already low, but definitely not impossible and shouldn't be discounted.

A quick google search gave me nothing about a body double role. I'm guessing it's a modified bodyguard that doesn't kill the attacker, but that's just my guess. We could actually ask him on Earth-One.

Hey TTH, you actually voted me in 736.. So my 789 which you claim to be the reason for voting me could not possibly have been the actual reason.

This actually really bothers me, why would TTH provide a fake reason for voting me when she could have simply said "it was an RVS vote"?

Wow... good catch, I totally missed that. I want to hear about this.

So far I'm also not liking Snarky, suddenly more vocal and everything on this earth? Isn't active Snarky Scum!Snarky?

I'll do more later today I think.

[TellTaleHeart]

Here we go on this

[TellTaleHeart]

Hey TTH, you actually voted me in 736.. So my 789 which you claim to be the reason for voting me could not possibly have been the actual reason.

This actually really bothers me, why would TTH provide a fake reason for voting me when she could have simply said "it was an RVS vote"?

Except I never claimed 789 was the reason for my vote.
Fine, 877 wasn't worded in the most clear way but "That" in "That's what led me to vote you." was talking about NK analysis in general (which I would think would be abundantly clear with the paragraph that followed) and not anything you said in the 789. I thought the fact that I didn't reference anything particular in 789 should've made that clear enough.

Also this is weird because TTH is supposedly townreading Clumsy and Magna to some extent so not sure why she has an issue with you also townreading them.

Completely ignoring the probabilistic nature of reads...

[Javajoe24]

VOTE: snarky snowman

[Clumsy]

Clumsy:
- General rule. Clumsy is speaking with all of us in a very fluid and natural motion. Gut feeling he's town.
- 769 This is the first post I didn't like and I just noticed it now. The vibe I'm getting from, "I'm not sure how I feel about this, but I'll get back to you" doesn't feel genuine.
- He delivers a wall on 771. It looks like a lost, but appears to be some fluff. My gut still says town, but no longer strong town. More like lean town.
- Agree with 793. Lane's logic is flawed.
- 834 If you're going to make such a statement and declare someone town, backing your case with, "gut" is weak support.

Couple things here. You're being hypocritical with the "gut" thing. Firstly, my townread on Lane was not a strong townread, it was a townlean on early Day 1 (part 2). I pushed discussion though, because we had nothing going on. Also, you say you have a gut feeling with me as town. Now, this is different than my slight townlean on Lane, because in the line 2 down from it, you say it was a strong town read. You say that "gut" is a weak support to declare someone town with, and then you do that exact thing yourself.

[TellTaleHeart]

Kuroi's reads list isn't good. I have a slight townread on him though, and Snarky's reaction felt reachy and overdone.

VOTE: Snarky

Why townread on kuroi?

Lilith strikes me a lot differently here than in Pokemon. I can't quite put my finger on why. @_@

Because I'm engaged rather than useless?

I'm actually curious--are you feeling this way about just my D1 play, or both D1 and D2, or just D2?

Alright-y, I have very little interest in ... this.
The thing where if I don't

immediately

answer, whoever I'm talking to quotes the question again.

It's annoying. If I don't answer something immediately, it means it's a question that I have to take time to compose something readable or I left the computer without even reading it.

(And just Day 2 for the second one.)

[Clumsy]

Phone posting. @Magna: That's perfectly fine to disagree, it's not a strong read for me in any case. Lane's whole thing here is completely illogical and pointless, and while I hate it when people dismiss scummy behavior as too scummy to be scum, in this particular case, my gut is telling me town.

This read could change, and fairly easily at that.

The reason I bring it up is because holy shit thread stagnation. At least it gives something to talk about, like right now. Gotta get discussion going.


Oh, and for the record I'm not calling Lane dumb. The point he's pushing is disingenuous, but I don't mean Lane is. I sincerely apologize if that's how that came across.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Except I never claimed 789 was the reason for my vote.
Fine, 877 wasn't worded in the most clear way but "That" in "That's what led me to vote you." was talking about NK analysis in general (which I would think would be abundantly clear with the paragraph that followed) and not anything you said in the 789. I thought the fact that I didn't reference anything particular in 789 should've made that clear enough.

Yeah except Lilith hadn't made any Nightkill analysis by the time you voted at 736. In fact her only posts of the day were 723 and 725. Frankly I don't see any way you can draw from what looks like a RVS vote on me has anything to do with Nightkill analysis by the time you vote. She doesn't voice that until 745.

VOTE: Telltaleheart

[TellTaleHeart]

This is very interesting. I saw that and meant to look it up... and totally didn't. I was thinking it was something similar to a bodyguard, but I admit that I assumed (which is badwrong) that it was just a random target that got lucky. I mean, the odds of the bodyguard and the scum picking the same target in the night is already low, but definitely not impossible and shouldn't be discounted.

A quick google search gave me nothing about a body double role. I'm guessing it's a modified bodyguard that doesn't kill the attacker, but that's just my guess. We could actually ask him on Earth-One.

OK.
I feel super dumb now.

If I had to bet, I think "body double" is the role I gave Cakez in my Gumball game. Check it out:

Spoiler:

Hello,

SirCakez

, and welcome to Elmore!

Well. After school, I'm gonna go pirate hunting with the president of the solar system in an underwater theme park.

Clayton, Elmore Modified Bodyguard

Bodyguard/Redirect

You're a pathological liar, but as a ball of clay you can take anyone's form. At night you may target someone to impersonate and all actions that were targeting them will target you instead.

Win Condition

: You win when all players aligned with the

Antagonists

are kicked out of Elmore and at least one player aligned with

Elmore

is left.

[TellTaleHeart]

Yeah except Lilith hadn't made any Nightkill analysis by the time you voted at 736.

I.
Didn't.
Say.
She.
Was.
Scum.
For.
The.
Nightkill.
Analysis.
She.
Did.

ACK!

>:(

[TellTaleHeart]

If you think I initially voted Lilith for

anything

she did, you are seriously misreading.

[TellTaleHeart]

As much as I'd love to sit here and be irritated, I have to actually get some shit done today.

Please read and think before you post. Spoonfeeding is really not my thing, even if I'm the reason it's necessary (I know, I'm terrible).

[MagnaofIllusion]

If you think I initially voted Lilith for

anything

she did, you are seriously misreading.

Then please be a peach and explain to me how I am misreading the following –

Except I never claimed 789 was the reason for my vote.
Fine, 877 wasn't worded in the most clear way but "That" in "That's what led me to vote you." was talking about NK analysis in general (which I would think would be abundantly clear with the paragraph that followed) and not anything you said in the 789. I thought the fact that I didn't reference anything particular in 789 should've made that clear enough.

In 877 said “That's what led me to vote you.” And above you clarified above re: the 'that' in question was Nightkill analysis. What conclusion am I to draw other than you voted Lilith for Nightkil analysis?

[Clumsy]

This is the progression of posts. I left out your V/LA posts though, no content there.

Everything on Earth-Two up until the vote on Lillith.

Spoiler: Up to the vote

There's still a world to be saved.
Want to come along for the ride?

VOTE: lane

VOTE: magna

I don't get the D&D joke

Oh.

VOTE: lilith

So I'm not sure exactly what to make of discussion on World 1 while on World 2 - feels like trying to be productive in a way that isn't relevant to whom we're actually lynching. So my vote isn't exactly random.

I disagree. Clumsy here is trying to look for an explanation for Xk to be the nightkill. Since we've only been in Earth One until now, the Earth Two scum team has to decide their kill based on Earth One play. It might be relevant to discuss Earth One play in this situation. I don't like that you're so quick to dismiss it.

VOTE: Snarky

That's what led me to vote you.

He couldn't have been killed for role-related reasons because we didn't even have our role PMs until the day ended. Even though I was townreading him on Earth 1, he didn't particularly strike me as an effective scumhunter from his Earth 1 posting (no offense). I think a parsimonious explanation for the kill is a familiarity with meta, which I gathered from Post 19 and Post 251 among others.

If you think I initially voted Lilith for

anything

she did, you are seriously misreading.

So I'm not sure exactly what to make of discussion on World 1 while on World 2 - feels like trying to be productive in a way that isn't relevant to whom we're actually lynching. So my vote isn't exactly random.

I disagree. Clumsy here is trying to look for an explanation for Xk to be the nightkill. Since we've only been in Earth One until now, the Earth Two scum team has to decide their kill based on Earth One play. It might be relevant to discuss Earth One play in this situation. I don't like that you're so quick to dismiss it.

VOTE: Snarky

That's what led me to vote you.

He couldn't have been killed for role-related reasons because we didn't even have our role PMs until the day ended. Even though I was townreading him on Earth 1, he didn't particularly strike me as an effective scumhunter from his Earth 1 posting (no offense). I think a parsimonious explanation for the kill is a familiarity with meta, which I gathered from Post 19 and Post 251 among others.

So you're saying that you initially voted Lilith for nothing she did, right? That means RVS, right? I think I'm getting that right, correct me otherwise. But if that's true, why? You had an RVS on Lane already. And below you said "That's what led me to vote you." So you're saying there's a reason for the vote. But as I've shown above, there doesn't seem to be anything regarding the reason that you're pushing here for the vote. It's all contradictory. I'm sorry if this is actually irritating you, or if we're all misunderstanding this, but just getting mad and leaving isn't going to solve this. Care to actually sit down (when you're done with your thing) and explain what's going on instead of just saying that we're not thinking? Because that's not explaining anything. It's just ATE at this point. I think the thing that we're so hung up on is that you say that it was the reason you voted there, but that didn't exist at the time of the vote.

[KuroiXHF]

Wow Kuroi made an effort post. Where the hell was that on Earth1?

This says quite a bit about my play style, but I'm fueled by motivation. Plus, I was so sure about Lane for most of it.

I disagree with some of the reads (Clumsy is getting too much Town credit for reasons I’m about to disclose,

My reads change all the time. If Clumsy is scum, I'll catch it and knock him down a couple of notches. Do you find Clumsy down to scum category, down to lynch territory?

Setting aside that “Why are you Alive” is a crappy argument in and of itself – the fact that “Why is Magna Alive” was even jokingly floated as a reason to vote me is scummy.

In premise I agree with you, but in practice, I think it's actually valid. My first non-newbie game here, ClownTardis Mafia, I was one alive for the last day period and I was the only one who was clear. There was one player that was clearly out of place and the only reason was that he was too good to be there with the rest of us, only moderately good players. I told myself that I shouldn't vote based on that reason. I went against my instincts, led the charge against a different player and lost town for us. I've been kicking myself in the ass ever since.

Nobody has blinked at this flip other than to remark “Huh, Xk died”. Read his role again – Body Double. This isn’t what I’d call standard terminology for MS but that flip to me reads pretty clearly as a Bodyguard. I mean that’s exactly what a Body Double is … someone you stands in for someone else.

That doesn't make sense to me. The only way that would make sense is if Xk was allowed to use your account information and was basically him using your account login - which is against the rules and non-feasible as a method.

And not a single one of you even put any effort into parsing that flip.

You're right. I should have asked more about that. I kind of figured since he's dead there's no use in figuring it out. He's not alive to use it, but you're right.

It is why Clumsy getting Town cred for his “decipher the Earth1 reasons why Xk was killed” post is unwarranted – it is predicated on Xk being directly killed as opposed to taking a bullet for someone else.

That sounds like a reach.

@Lilith and Kuroi

– why didn’t you think more clearly about Xk’s flip?

Already explained. If he's dead, he couldn't use his ability. Would you spend time asking everyone if "Player X died. He was a Town Doodader"? Sure, I'd be curious but I'm not sure if I'd really ask.

Again: what about the back-and-forth between MoI and me makes you think it's TvT?

It's TvSomething. If you forced a gun to my head and made me choose, I'd guess TvT, but I'm not so confident about you.

I did say my vote was only half-serious, and everyone seems to have the impression that I was actually pushing for a lynch, when all I was trying to do was produce some discussion to get the game back going. My unvote was because with him VLA, the pressure on him wouldn't even achieve anything, and I can always come back and vote him when he is around to respond to pressure.

If you are telling me the truth, your timing was horrendous, almost to the point of deserving a vote or two.

What about 830 is good/towny to you?

It's an observation of a drastic change in behavior. That's always a townie sign.

Why am I null if the argument was a TvT?

Because more happened than just the argument today?

I'm actually going to agree with (Snarky?). The strength of your Magna read seems to be based on little, given how few lines you've devoted to his ISO.

I've already explained that, but okay.

The way you talk about him in points 2, 3, and 5 sounds like you're leaning scum on him but then you somehow end up with a townlean?? You call him ungenuine and say his argument is weak and his posts are fluffy but somehow that adds up to town. Which confuses me.

As I've said before, Clumsy's words are making me feel like he's scum, but his words make me feel enough. He's closer to null than strong town. I have to compromise. His reads may change, but it's where it is right now.

Not really much to say about this. Lane hasn't been obvtowning for me like he usually does but then neither has he done anything outrageously scummy. Why don't you like his reasons for his MoI vote?

I didn't like it when he said "I was expecting someone else to acknowledge it." I said that the post after he did it. It's damn near confessing to being scum and it makes me rethink if I should vote him or not. When he admits that he saw something scummy but didn't act on it, he admits to trying to blend in so he won't set off red flags.

I think you've used "gut" for half of your reads.

You should use gut for all your reads. Instinct is a good tool to have to find scum, brah. Why don't you use it?

Can you explain this last one? It seems a little pointless to say this?

What I mean is when I'm posting and contributing to the game and then a v/la comes up, my level of contribution goes down. When TTH did it, it stayed the same... because he contributed nothing when he posted.

[TellTaleHeart]

In 877 said “That's what led me to vote you.” And above you clarified above re: the 'that' in question was Nightkill analysis. What conclusion am I to draw other than you voted Lilith for Nightkil analysis?

The NK analysis

I

did. Not the NK analysis Lilith did. The only reason I quoted Lilith's post was because it was related to NK analysis. I wasn't actually commenting on the post itself, it was the subject the post brought up.

I think the thing that we're so hung up on is that you say that it was the reason you voted there, but that didn't exist at the time of the vote.

The Xkfyu kill existed at the time of the vote. That's what the vote was for. I don't really know how to phrase it better than that.

(Not all of my irritation is related to this game, for the record. Not even most of it. Sorry. :S)