Open 644: Stack the Deck - Game Over

[Dunnstral]

Like that post 300 from karnos is terrible in every way and you quote it and say he's playing

too well

to be scum?

What are your reads, or do you need to interact in real time for that?

[KuroiXHF]

I've modded a game where I saw not only how he acted and played as scum, but how he conversed with his scum buddy. This is not scum.

[KuroiXHF]

I just went through this entire game. I'm sure I'll have a read list coming up, but I'm not doing one now.

[Dunnstral]

By the way I voted you because of alpaca not because of your entrance (well kind of to maybe get some pressure but you didn't seem to notice that until it didn't matter), now I'm voting you for your catch up that I don't like

OK but Xurio you can't really say that post 300 is playing well...?

Maybe you meant to say he's not playing like he would as scum?

[PantherPunt]

backspace exists...timewarping like that feels so fake. like you're purposefully demonstrating that you have a "thought progression"

To be fair I like actual time warping and even did it myself in that off-site game hosted by plot I was talking about (where I replaced in)

I mean turns out someone scumread me from it too but it worked out in the end

It's not the act of timewarping itself. See the "like this" in my post.

When you timewarped did you pick out one quote and add commentary to it "player A scummy" then keep going and copypaste another quote in and say "actually player B worse" and then keep going and copypaste another quote in and say "never mind player C is where we should wagon" ?

No you say "I thought player A and player B were bad in posts X and Y until I got to this post blah blah blah.

My point is that it attempts to show a process. Like "look at how I am reading through and making opinions and those opinions are changing as I hit different things"

So fake.

Not to mention that picking out those posts out of 283 are fairly questionable, they said ploben and karnos are scumbuds, and otherwise showed some incongruent thoughts imo.

[ploben]

Meta meta meta blah blah....

[KuroiXHF]

By the way I voted you because of alpaca not because of your entrance (well kind of to maybe get some pressure but you didn't seem to notice that until it didn't matter), now I'm voting you for your catch up that I don't like

OK but Xurio you can't really say that post 300 is playing well...?

Maybe you meant to say he's not playing like he would as scum?

I didn't like 300, but I didn't find it alignment indicative. I just think he's wrong.

Also, if our history says anything about your judgment of me, it's that you don't know when I'm scum.

[PantherPunt]

Lol I'm the towniest player in the game based on one singular post that wasn't that townie at all!

Ive never seen a more openly howling sub entrance in my life. And there's good stuff to work with if (I wanted to say when but I'll restrain) kuroi flips scum

[KuroiXHF]

Lol I'm the towniest player in the game based on one singular post that wasn't that townie at all!

Ive never seen a more openly howling sub entrance in my life. And there's good stuff to work with if (I wanted to say when but I'll restrain) kuroi flips scum

Now you're insulting me. What does this say about you when I flip town?

I said you're town because you had the same thought process as me, town.

[Dunnstral]

Kuroi think that toes over the line

[PantherPunt]

Not insulting you just saying you're howling.

How come in your first post you scumread ploben, then say it was an obvious joke claim, then say he might be bussing but is probably town, then say "you got this girlfrand" (don't even know why you quoted that post or what that meant), then scum read him

[Dunnstral]

Now you're insulting me. What does this say about you when I flip town?

What does it say for the "towniest person here" if you flip town?

[KuroiXHF]

Kuroi think that toes over the line

I broke no rules, I assure you.

Not insulting you just saying you're howling.

How come in your first post you scumread ploben, then say it was an obvious joke claim, then say he might be bussing but is probably town, then say "you got this girlfrand" (don't even know why you quoted that post or what that meant), then scum read him

I posted things I liked and things I didn't. You can town read some things people say and scum read other things. Scum post townie things sometimes just like town post scummy things. Are you saying that doesn't happen?

Now you're insulting me. What does this say about you when I flip town?

What does it say for the "towniest person here" if you flip town?

It says that you aren't good enough at finding scum.

[PantherPunt]

Yes scum post townie things, you should try it.

My point is the posts you called ploben scummy for aren't even his scummy posts. The one where you said "go girlfrand" isn't a towny post in the world you find the other posts scummy. If you believe it is please help me understand your thoughts.

Also, the comment about shadow in the first wall post, can you elaborate on that and clarify your meaning there too please?

[Chip Butty]

Because I'm harshest on you, I know.

No, it's because I get the strong impression you aren't putting a lot of thought into these reads, just trying to look like you have a lot of definite opinions. Coming into a game with hundreds of posts like this requires, at the very least, that you read all the way through before posting your own reads. Yet you blunder into that 'ploben was obv joking' shit like it hasn't been discussed to death several times already. You should have taken your sweet time, built up reads based on a player's entire input for the game, not just grabbed a scattered post here or there and based your entire read on that. This rushed, superficial approach to reads looks either lazy or scummy, or both. whichever, it's not much use to Town.

[KuroiXHF]

Yes scum post townie things, you should try it.

My point is the posts you called ploben scummy for aren't even his scummy posts. The one where you said "go girlfrand" isn't a towny post in the world you find the other posts scummy. If you believe it is please help me understand your thoughts.

Also, the comment about shadow in the first wall post, can you elaborate on that and clarify your meaning there too please?

You don't seem to know my play style, so I can understand why you'd think that, but I highly suggest you read me games and see why I wouldn't.

Also, if you're referring to 231, I'm saying that Shadow appears to be scum reading Alpaca for reasons of supposed inactivity/lurking. Obviously there wasn't lurking because Alpaca was replaced. I'm here. (Tada!)

Because I'm harshest on you, I know.

No, it's because I get the strong impression you aren't putting a lot of thought into these reads, just trying to look like you have a lot of definite opinions. Coming into a game with hundreds of posts like this requires, at the very least, that you read all the way through before posting your own reads. Yet you blunder into that 'ploben was obv joking' shit like it hasn't been discussed to death several times already. You should have taken your sweet time, built up reads based on a player's entire input for the game, not just grabbed a scattered post here or there and based your entire read on that. This rushed, superficial approach to reads looks either lazy or scummy, or both. whichever, it's not much use to Town.

I will go through my reads again because I did go through it quickly, but I know what I liked and I know what I didn't like. You were scummy from the beginning with scum reading people and coming off like a crazy person because someone made a joke about being an innocent child. That didn't ping me and I'm not even scum reading you for you being pinged. I'm pinged because you were death tunneling Ploben on that.

People joke during RVS, especially since Ploben didn't even claim Innocent Child. Did you not read the other words? Did you not read the rules?

[Dunnstral]

Also, if you're referring to 231, I'm saying that Shadow appears to be scum reading Alpaca for reasons of supposed inactivity/lurking. Obviously there wasn't lurking because Alpaca was replaced. I'm here. (Tada!)

Alpaca is in other games and is posting in those.
I modeled mine after the ok references too ^

I know you don't have any control over that but your argument falls flat for that reason

[Dunnstral]

Kuroi what do you think of Chip's supposed townslip?

[KuroiXHF]

...what townslip? I must have missed that.

Also, I can't control Alpaca so yeah, if he's done something scummy while in that slot, there's not much I can do. I didn't know that about him either. I guess it makes sense that's why you may have scum read him, so point taken. Still, I think you guys jumped the gun too quickly. I'm the kind of guy where if I can't stick into a game, I'd replace out. I don't remember having done that, but I would. I guess he wouldn't. So I say there's a gun jumping because there's an assumption that someone is scum, where as they may not care about the game.

But since he's gone now and I'm here, talk to me.

[Dunnstral]

I'm not sure how you'd miss it as multiple people have referenced it in the thread but ok, I'm talking about this stuff:

Am I understanding the setup right?

Town as 6 non-VT roles, which imlies Mafia chose 4 role-mods. The 4 Mafia role mods are: Change goon to Bulletproof; Change goon to role-cop; Recruit traitor; Change goon to JOAT. Implying that Mafia didn't choose daytalk?

If so, we ought to be on the lookout for attempts by scum to communicate to each other during the day...

Yeah, but check out the phase 2 role-PMs. 6 Town. Town gets 2 random role-mods, plus one extra for every Mafia role-mod. Implies 4 Mafia role-mods (6-2). Since we know what those 4 are, we can conclude that daytalk wasn't among them.

Ok thanks for clearing that up, guys. I wasn't sure because, even though it says Mafia can choose up to three role-mods, I was a bit unclear whether they could then choose an extra one for their recruited goon (if any), for a total of four role-mods...

[KuroiXHF]

OK. I don't consider this a slip. It could easy be forged. If bold enough, I could do the same thing as scum. At the same time, it's not obviously forced.

I don't even really know this setup. I'm just here to do my job.

It's NAI, as far as I'm concerned.

[Ranger]

It seemed more like you just trying to get behind an easy wagon (assuming town flip).

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt, wore it out.

I vote for, and pursue, scum. I also proceed through the thread page by page, usually marked by some obvious sign of where I am. (E.g. "one", "two", "8" translating to "this is through page 1/2/8" respectively.) This is a pattern, town and scum, consistent through almost all of my games. (

Almost

. There's been one or two times I've lurked as scum and read current content while pretending not to. Shockingly, I died in both games. Imagine that! I died for pretending.) I could not have known there was a wagon on ploben when catching up, until I actually saw there was a wagon on ploben.

I would vote scum regardless of whether I'd be the first or fifth vote. You're not

entirely

off-base though. One reason I voted ploben

was

because there's a wagon there. My vote wouldn't do much good if I was the only voter on, say, PantherPunt. Still, in spite of that, my point remains true. I don't care about how "easy" a lynch looks. Ever since my first game here, which you were in, I've known better. The SK was an easy lynch. The three scum? Eventually, easy lynches. In Suikoden, two of the three scum (who I immediately scumread) were easy lynches. They were still scum, and I still lynched them.

Opportunism is, in fact, something entirely absent from my scum game. I

avoid

easy lynches like the plague. They terrify me! Because they're easy, because the players on them will look bad when the player flips town (and I know that player will be flipping town), I fight them, and go for harder targets. It's win-win. If I succeed, I mislynch a stronger player. If I fail, then I get free town credit for fighting against the lynch.

So, ploben is no easy mislynch. ploben is just plain scum.

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Ranger

Changed my mind she's mafia after all

[Dunnstral]

Like you can only have so many posts that basically just talk about yourself scattered throughout the game before it starts to get silly and it's crossed that point

I don't care about what you did in other games because we're in this game now thanks

[Ranger]

I want to say 1 thing first, which is that if we have mod confirmed scum ranger, Karnos isn't at all who I would expect to be her partner.

For someone who complained about thinking I'm arrogant.

You sure seem to be arrogant.

Justsayin'.

I don't believe that you believe your panther and dunn reads. That was the read I really wanted to hear and I got none of it.

I'm not in the mood to make them tonight, but given the pages' worth of content since then, as soon as I'm in the mood to make them, I will.

Also on Ploben, you called my read on him a highlight, so why is the town paranoia stuff that I described not valid?

Your explanation of your townread on ploben is a highlight of something that is a thought process I don't see scum making. It is not a read I happen to agree on.

This really confuses me.

PantherPunt said he doesn't believe I legitimately thought the mod had slipped Shadow_step was town.
The required implication, because I wouldn't fake something like that as town, is that he thinks I did so as scum.
Then there is the obvious follow-through: if I faked it as scum...what would I be doing? Clearing a town player, or clearing a scumbuddy? The former makes no sense, so by implication, PantherPunt would by necessity be saying I was doing the latter...yet that scenario requires a contrived amount of explanation and sheer

stupidity

on the part of me as scum.

is that your Panther read, cause that is infinitely worse than your townreads.

If that were the entirety of my PantherPunt case, I would have said so.
It is not.
It was, just like with Dunnstral, commentary. Commentary != casing.
See the casing I did on all the players, both town and nullscum? (I did skip the nulltown, since I didn't think they were worth mentioning.)

That

is casing. And THAT is what my PantherPunt case will look like.

But it is ONE reason why PantherPunt is a strong scumread, yes. This also is an answer to your next comment.

You just decided to join the wagon that has townier people. So what?

I don't see the point you're trying to make here? You're literally asking me why I'm

going with townreads

and

voting a scumread

, and opposed to a

wagon on a townread

comprised

primarily of scumreads

.

Why is Duppin's point about Ploben not valid?

You'd have to point me to duppin's point for me to answer this. But while I can't give specifics without knowing what duppin's point was, I can tell you, in general, the reason duppin's point isn't valid is because ploben is scum.

You sabotaged the town.

I very clearly laid out my motivations there and after doing so, you were literally the only player who held this viewpoint. But this isn't relevant to the current game.

if you say you went all heavy with analysis in there, I say: WHOOP DEE FUCKING DOOO. You were dead.

Wrong. Given the unique mechanic of that game, I wasn't dead. I was in control of a vengekill. Which I used to shoot you. So I was the ONLY player giving content at that moment. I was the ONLY player doing analysis. I was the ONLY player who was relevant in that moment, because I decided the fate of the game. So I was important, even if you couldn't see why until we lost because I was wrong. The other two dead players explicitly sheeped me on my shot because of what I said. They didn't put time or effort into it the same way I did. In fact, both of them wanted to shoot Trollie or Killthestory or Not_Mafia. (2/3 of which would have continued the game.) I convinced them otherwise, even though we lost as a result. That was all me. Not them. Me. My content. My posting. Not dead. Very much game related. But this is all a massive deflection from my point, that, yes, you should know I give content later. I happened to give it when I was in a separate thread (akin to a neighborhood, NOT akin to a dead thread), but I gave it all the same.

Oh so any time you give naked reads and don't say shit else, you're town?

Not the implication.
Your stated reason for suspecting me, along with voting me, was, and I QUOTE,

ranger has given no content. she will argue that her read lists are content. I will argue that that's bullshit because she has failed to show her thought process behind any of those reads with the exception of the hideously terrible justification for the shadowguy read

My whole point here is that

you already know this is false

. Yes, readslists are content. Yes, I had not given thought processes AT THE TIME, and still haven't for my main three scumreads. But as I spent that post explaining, you know better than ANYONE that I post readslists with nothing else as town, with no thought processes given, until later. You therefore know that the reason for suspecting me is, as you so adequately said...bullshit.

In short: I'm not saying "I do this only as town". I'm saying, "You've seen me do this as town, and this is

your main given reason for scumreading me

, which is a fundamental contradiction". As in, flat-out, your entire. given. reasoning. Was, "Ranger hasn't posted reasons, and that is scummy", when your experience with me was...me not posting reasons, as town, meaning you DARN well should know better especially given

you blacklisted me for it

. That's not something I see you forgetting.

And about doing "zero explaining while alive." What good is that?

Well who was it that hammered me?
Oh yeah.
A TOWN player.
Hammered me.
When I was expecting to not be hammered by anyone except scum, because duh, only scum opportunistically will hammer a player at L-1 like that.
I fully intended to explain my reads later.
But I was LYNCHED BEFORE I COULD, because a TOWN player HAMMERED ME.

The time differential between me explaining my reads this game, and me explaining my reads that game, is actually about identical.