Open 647: Diffusion of Power (Game Over)

[karnos]

It's not bad luck if someone had the opportunity to unvote karnos. You seem really eager right now.

And you seem really paranoid. Are you afraid podo will flip scum, or are you afraid he will flip town?

[drmyshottyizsik]

It's not bad luck if someone had the opportunity to unvote karnos. You seem really eager right now.

And you seem really paranoid. Are you afraid podo will flip scum, or are you afraid he will flip town?

It is scum who tells a cautious townie he is paranoid scum
VOTE: karnos

[karnos]

It's not bad luck if someone had the opportunity to unvote karnos. You seem really eager right now.

And you seem really paranoid. Are you afraid podo will flip scum, or are you afraid he will flip town?

It is scum who tells a cautious townie he is paranoid scum
VOTE: karnos

Nice. I can tell your vote is totally strategic and well thought out, it's not like you are just voting me because I am voting you.

BTW, you were misrepresenting my point.

"If clueless, that is just bad luck, town can't succeed with players who aren't even trying."

As in, if we have clueless town who hammer without intent, we are going to lose. Unvoting doesn't remove the clueless town from our player pool, it only stops them from hammering in this specific case. There will still be plenty of other cases where they can ruin things, unless you think town can win without ever going to L-1.

[drmyshottyizsik]

You are pushing for a lynch and saying well if someone cluelessly hammers oh well we were doomed anyway. That is a scum mindset.

[Transcend]

I think smithereens looks not so good right now.

was thinking the same thing

VOTE: smith

[karnos]

You are pushing for a lynch and saying well if someone cluelessly hammers oh well we were doomed anyway. That is a scum mindset.

I thought that was your mindset?

It's like you are trying to argue both sides. If you think someone can quick-hammer and miss-lynch and we won't be doomed, then why are you so paranoid about letting someone sit at L-1 for a few hours?

The only difference is you seem to think a QHML is just going to happen spontaneously. That isn't how it works. It happens when someone clueless hammers without showing intent. Now, by cutting back to L-2 you protect against the hammer in this specific case, but you also prevent anyone from giving a real intent to hammer, you prevent podo from feeling a serious risk of being lynched, and ultimately the player who would have quick-hammered is still in the game, ready to make an error at some other point.

If you really have a player who is going to make a horrible mistake like that, you can't cripple your play options and play around it. you just have to play normally and deal with the missplay if it actually happens.

[davesaz]

Official Vote Count

drmyshottyizsik

(3): DixC, Smithereens, karnos

podoboq

(3): Chip Butty, MURDERCAT, PenguinPower

karnos

(2): podoboq, drmyshottyizsik

Smithereens

(1): Transcend

Aneninen

(1): Maruchan

Ranger

(1): Aneninen

Maruchan

(1): SirCakez

Not Voting

(1): Ranger

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2016-07-02 13:00:25)

[Transcend]

i'm really not super keen about his defense on Maruchan.

pedit: right now i'm thinking karnos/shotty is tvt and they need to get the fuck over themselves.

[MURDERCAT]

I think it's TvT also, less sure though. I want to see where it goes though.

[drmyshottyizsik]

i'm really not super keen about his defense on Maruchan.

pedit: right now i'm thinking karnos/shotty is tvt and they need to get the fuck over themselves.

Ok I'll set my ego aside.
UNVOTE:

[Transcend]

my take is: their argument reads like two towns fighting as opposed to a maf vs. a town or even a maf vs. a maf.

and it's a relatively weak read as well.

[Maruchan]

Will post catchup shortly. Lots of good stuff for me to comment on I see (Y). RE: whoever asked me if I always do walls, yes. See my last post regarding the restrictions on my internet access, and you'll understand I can't be here during the progressing discussion, but I still have my 2 cents about the discussion I wish to toss in, and make sure they are heard, so that equates to wall posts when lots of content happens in the 12 hour days I have without internet access. Expect my next wall (in like an hour or two) to be on the same level as my last.

MOD: I will be Semi- V/LA starting tomorrow. I can't tell you an exact end of my V/LA, but you'd be safe to estimate the ballpark of a week. I will still log in, and post, but it won't have as much content. We're pulling into port, and I will be busy seeing the sites, drinking the booze, and standing the watches on duty

[karnos]

I think it's TvT also, less sure though. I want to see where it goes though.

No, I don't think it's going anywhere, you are probably correct.

I still want some attention from podoboq, there was a reason for his wagon and it doesn't need to be dismantled yet.

VOTE: podoboq

[Transcend]

I think it's TvT also, less sure though. I want to see where it goes though.

hold on you think that they were TVT but you wanted them to keep fighting and be on the wrong track?

VOTE: MURDERCAT'

[Smithereens]

Karnos what are you hoping to get from podo?

[Smithereens]

Trans is town ^_^

[MURDERCAT]

less sure though

I want to see where it goes

[Transcend]

Trans is town ^_^

mmmm thanks

but i'll pass on the invitation to your back pocket <3

[karnos]

Karnos what are you hoping to get from podo?

If I told him what I wanted, it would be really easy for him to give me just that.

I just didn't like his interactions with maruchan. It seemed like he unvoted first, and then only later after being prompted did he manufacture the reasons for his unvote. That isn't how it's supposed to work.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Spoiler: Hammer

VOTE: lolol
But seriously

intent to hammer

shouldn't second guess myself

[MURDERCAT]

Shotty triple voter confirmed

[Maruchan]

Agree with the above, and...

SirCakez was scum in the original roll open 640. The *only* scum from 640 who made it into the re-roll. What are the chances that he pulled scum again?

VOTE: SirCakez

VOTE: karnos
I was waiting for something....else, but no, this is still it. There needs to be some pressure on karnos to make him actually participate, because this doesn't count.

This is a good post. We were starting to slowly pull ourselves out of RVS at that point, and here comes Karnos rolling back in with a "Hey have some RVS bishes!" post, and no help to the game at all. He tries to throw a shred of validity on it by WIFOMing "what are the odds" of back to back scum rolls. Which in a game of exactly the same setup, the odds of back to back scum roles,

are the exact same odds of any single one of us rolling scum

because each game is played in a bubble, so outside factors do not place any pressure on the pure randomness of each game.

VOTE: podo
n-0 guilty confirmed, his buddy is probably maruchan

Speaking of players trying to drag us back into RVS hand over foot, here comes shotty. He (blatantly obviously sarcastically) pretends he is a night 0 cop, based off someone else attempting it in the last game, and says pod is scum (a little foreshadowing hindsight 20/20 thing, he later unvotes pod because he's too close to a lynch, showing how even more blatantly RVS this is). And hey look he puts at the towns other biggest scumread as his likely scumbuddy. that's like coming in and going "yeah, i agree with the over-all town consensus 100%, these two are the scum team. game over". yeahno. gtfo

Maru if you are going to overreact like that to every post about you, you are going to be lynched.

So you're saying, I won't get lynched because I'm scum. I won't get lynched because I'm scumym town. I'll get lynched because you don't like my personality trait of being overtly verbose and explaining everything to minute detail? I thought the goal was to find scum, not to find people who annoy us? But then again, this is from the guy who thinks scumhunting is done in a bubble, without any group interaction and support. Not surprising your methods point you towards those that annoy you rather than scum. Shitty methods, shitty results.

I'm ok with that.

VOTE: Podo

So you just jumped off of your biggest scumread who you still scumread, and who is the leading wagon, onto pod. Because shotty asked you to? wtf? if this isn't wishy-washy I don't know what is.

Because the unvote was terrible, really looks like he was looking for a reason to take it off.

You then go on to explain your vote less than a minute, almsot as an afterthought like "Oh shit, you know, maybe I should provide a better reason for my vote other than just following shotty". People who care who they lynch (IE: Town, who have to lynch correctly), don't come up with reasons for their vote, post-vote, as an afterthought. They have reasons they express before or in the same post as voting. Because the vote is the most powerful tool the town have.

I actually believe this

OK, so first I'm accused of coaching shotty, then I'm accused of buddying Maru, because I'm trying to explain my reasoning for townreading that wall? Did I get that about right?

remember, any time you expand upon your reads, or encourage good behavior, you're scum because scumhunting is an individual effort, not a group one. Of course you shouldn't explain why you townread someone.


The following interactions between penguin and murder bring up some good relevant content from penguin about Karnos' scum/town meta. Especially since it's from a personal friend of his, who has a higher likelihood of picking up subtler cues in a player's meta. (see singersigner and glork, as they've gotten close in their personal relationship, they can no longer play mafia together because singersigner can immediately read glork's alignment no matter what.)

Penguin wanna waddle over to the podo wagon?

Not relevant in context, but as I have skimmed the following pages, this is relevant because here shotty is deliberately begging for votes on pod, because he wants a serious wagon, but when that wagon forms all the way to l-1, shotty gets scared and abandons ship. This from the same player who on page two mentioned he loved applying pressure and being a hard-player. I'm seeing inconsistencies with him here.

...

Sooooooo....you're saying I am like a puppy you are training? Maybe you can train me to salivate when you ring a bell.

More seriously, this does look like an overreaction to me. I mean, a whole rant about puppy training just because I pointed out an over-the-top endorsement of a point I made? Are you Cesar Millan?

Don't know who Cesar Millan is, and it's not over the top for me. Go meta any scum or town game of me, and you will see the exact same gameplay. Especially in the past 3-4 games I've played while on deployment, when I have to make wall-posts in order to stay involved

@SirCakez's 126 asking me if I make a lot of walls: Yes. Sorry, its an unfortunate requirement of my current situation in life. In about a month, if this game is still ongoing, you will see a drastic reduction in wall posts from me, as I will be home from deployment and be much more constantly-proactive in the game. As an analogy, before I got to my first ship in 90% of the games I was in, at the point of my death/endgame, I usually had by far and above the most posts in the activity log of any player in the game. I was the most articulate player and active player typically. Since getting to a point in my career where I don't have constant 24/7 internet access, I have gotten less numerous in my posts, but I have gotten no less content into the posts I do make. So to make up for the lack of being able to actively participate in every discussion as it happens, I have to catch up all at once. PS: you also make a slightly decent point about pod's unvote, until pod breaks down his reactions immediately after you make your point.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: podoboq

This loosk sketchy as fuck, so I ISO'd you, and your previous posts made it look no less sketchy as fuck. A lot has happened since your last post, not the least of which being my giant wallpost (that some called overreacting), and pod's analysis of how my wallpost affected him directly. Is this vote saying yo udisagree with his analysis, and think we're both still scummy? Is this vote just a blind sheeping of SirCakez? WTF? (I see later, you point out yourself that your vote is sketchy, but that doesn't make it look less sketchy. Your reaction to me, as a player/playerslot would be helpful, as it was a major point for a lot of the back and forth in the 2-3 pages directly following my post yesterday.

- I'm playing in 3 other games at the same time. When we played previously, it was only ever one game at a time, so it had my full time devoted to a single game.

I want to vote you just because your posts are hard to read. Can you try to be a little more concise?

And weirdly, reading podobog defend you while analyzing your last posts makes me like your posts even less.

I really don't like your point 3 in 98: votes are free, and a vote or even a couple votes at this point isn't going to kill anyone. If nothing else, they provide useful pressure and can drive discussion.

Dividing your post into 4 points I want to address.
1. This is a shitty reason to give any less than your all to any game. If you can't play to your normal standards in any game because of the number of other games, you need to get the fuck out of some of those games. A SELF-INDUCED workload of games is NOT a valid excuse to not play your best game possible in any given game at any given time. Fix yourself.
2. Voting for someone based on a playstyle, and because you don't like their posts is fucking stupid. Deal with it, or ignore me and live with the fact you can't read my playerslot due to your ignoring of me. I can't be any more concise and get the points i want to make across. I can only make 1 sometimes 2 posts a day, and you guys are averaging 100 posts a day for me to react to. I will react to everything that happens in the game. I will not skim, I will not hold back, I will not provide any less content due to my limited posting schedule. I will provide the same content I would provide if I could post every 30 minutes. It just happens to all be in one post. I can't help that, I'm sorry it bugs you. Deal with it, or don't. It's not a good reason for lynching someone. Unless you're scum, then any reason to lynch not scum is a good reason.
3. I apologize that someone else's personal reactions to my post, makes you dislike my post? Thats really weird, and nothing I can do to change other people's personal reactions, so I don't know why you made this point.
4. Votes are free. They are also the most powerful weapon any town player has in any given game. When I can only apply one vote in a 24 hour period, why do you want me to waste it on anything less than someone I am 100% willing to be rid of, before I get a chance to check back in 24 hours later? You saw how fast the wagon on pod built. he went from no votes to L-1 in the span of my Sleep Time/Work Day. If I had voted him, that could easily have been a quicklynch while I was without internet access. Why would I want that? I will be sparing with my votes, and only place it where I WANT to lynch someone, and that is my personal choice, and it is not a bad choice.


@

Ranger

's #132, pod seems to be confused by your weird form of listing names that was posted three times consecutively on page 3, that I also addressed as being confused by. Can you please expand on this, and provide more detail as to what these lists are/mean/how you achieve them (especially for page 1 which had so little content, and some of the players on your list had totally not even posted) This is the second time and I am the second person who has asked you to expand.

My vote looks sketchy~~

I had an irresistible urge to just lynch a fucker, I'm not gonna lie to you :3 I'm awful.

There's still time to unvote him and lynch someone else though...

WTF is this? First, you point out how sketchy your vote was (it was very sketchy), then you DON'T EXPLAIN IT or make it any less sketchy, you then say you just want to lynch a fucker but don't care who (as in, you could care less if you think they are scum or not!) and continue on to suggesting we move the lynch onto someone else, without moving your vote. WTF is this even. you seriously need to explain this bro.

UNVOTE:

woah, l-1 legit on page 6? No no no, I'm not saying podo isn't scum but it seems more likely that this is a scum driven wagon. Could be both.

p-edit,
that post looked worse than your vote

More shotty. -.- sigh. Aight, so back to our earlier posts of you saying you like applying pressure. But you keep shying away from it? Then you fence sit like a mutherfucker "he MIGHT be scum still! BUT this might be a scum-motivated wagon, WHO KNOWS FOR SURE EH?". this looks really bad on you. THEN you continue on with "OR HEY HE IS SCUM

AND

SCUM ARE PUSHING HIS LYNCH!". Like, is that even a real thing you think is going on right now? less than 10 pages into day one, less than a week into the game, you think scum are hard-bussing their buddy?

I think smithereens looks not so good right now.

was thinking the same thing

VOTE: smith

i'm really not super keen about his defense on Maruchan.

pedit: right now i'm thinking karnos/shotty is tvt and they need to get the fuck over themselves.

I'm confused about this sequence of posts. you say smithereens looks suspicious, then mention a player defending me, which smithereens has yet to do. it was pod who was "defending" me. and by defending, i mean he was pointing out how he liked my reactions.

Also agree with smithereens' #116. transcend is my best townread at the moment.

Transcend's #116, is the "punishing the dog for peeing inside" of my example. He discourages us from posting or town reads, because he perceives it as buddying. Sharing your reads, both town/scum, is a good thing. it keeps for consistency. if you're always talking about your reads, it's easier to catch you out in being inconsistent with your reads.

Shotty's #169 is horrible and he is my biggest scumread at the moment, but I'd also be happy with a smithereens vote. VOTE: drmyshottyizsik

[Transcend]

uh i looked up post 116 and it was penguin... which post are you talking about?

[podoboq]

Here's a readslist. General thoughts coming up after.
If they aren't on the list, I've determined they don't have enough content to start trying to inform a read.

TOWNY:

Spoiler: karnos

He was right that unvoting me is bad play. You should keep the pressure on so that if I'm scum, the pressure causes me to post weird and gives you an opportunity to read me. Pointing out that theory could have come from scum or town, but when so many people came off my wagon, it seems like legit annoyed town, rather than scum.

Spoiler: Maruchan

Already explained. I liked his wall. Haven't read the recent one, yet. That's next.

Spoiler: Transcend

Recent interactions are pretty good. I like that he calls out karnos and shotty as probably TvT, and asks them to break it up, when what they're doing is causing a rift in the town. Can only be scum if shotty is also scum, and he was coaching, which I'm just gonna say is unlikely.

Spoiler: DixC

Interaction with shotty is too insensitive to be scummy. If I'm wrong, and he's actually just that bad at being scum, then it should be easy to lynch him in the future, so I'm willing to just assume he's town for now.

NULL:

Spoiler: Chip Butty

In general, I like his thoughts on the game, but it also seems like he's not searching for town, which is scummy.

Spoiler: drmyshottyizsik

A lot of bad interactions, but I've yet to determine if they're scummy or just shotty feeling off, which would make sense. Unvoting me was weird, and could be scum going for town points, but usually scum don't unvote there in fear that the wagon dissolves. Basically I'm just torn here, but there's a lot to read.

SCUMMY:

Spoiler: Smithereens

Bad play on my wagon. I don't like how Smithereens defended Maruchan, but then is also voting me when I unvoted Maruchan. It seems inconsistent. If Smith saw what I saw with Maru, I feel like he'd come to my defense, or at the least, stay out of it, but instead he voted me.

My vote looks sketchy~~

I had an irresistible urge to just lynch a fucker, I'm not gonna lie to you :3 I'm awful.

There's still time to unvote him and lynch someone else though...

This is scummy.

Spoiler: MURDERCAT

Seems opportunistic, and posts a lot without contributing much of anything. He seems to be the second person to say anything he says, which is a sign of someone trying to blend in while still pushing their own agenda.

Spoiler: Ranger

In my experience with Ranger (day one of Musical Mafia), her reads were pretty damn good. She's scumreading me here (more than anyone else), despite townreading me as town in that game. If she's so good at reads, there are three options: 1) I'm actually scum and she's right, 2) I'm actually town, and she's scum supporting a lynch without pushing it, or 3) I'm just way harder to read than I thought. I know that (1) is out. I don't think it's (3). Plus, this:

I would like to know why you seem to have me in the definitely scum tier and why karnos seems to be chilling in the definitely town tier.

I don't recall making a statement like this!

She literally has me at the bottom of her tierlist in all three of her reads posts, and karnos at the top in the last two. I've seen how her tier lists are organized from Musical Mafia, so I'm assuming she's using the same style, where bottom is certainly scum and top is certainly town. So I have no idea where that quote is coming from.

[podoboq]

VOTE: MURDERCAT
For what it matters