Mini 1805 [C'est fini!]

petroleumjelly · Post Post #1400 (ISO) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 7:04 pm

1.)

In post 188, Eggman wrote:
In post 13, Dwlee99 wrote:Okay so scum team is dragon, crazy and eggman. Thoughts?
So you think the scumteam in a 13-player game would be three people?

In post 267, Eggman wrote:I WAS looking for an answer there, although the intent seems to have not come across. Every mod can do things differently, as well, so I wouldn't know the exact ratio of a 13-player game, hence the question.

Would like to revisit this now. Eggman, were you of the opinion that a 13-player game would have a two-player scum team? Did you think there would be multiple scum teams?

2.)

atm487, please answer my questions from yesterday:

In post 960, petroleumjelly wrote:
1.)
atm487,

->
a.)
Why did you use the language that you "know for a fact" Creature is Town?
->
b.)
Could you please rephrase your Eggman vote? Do you have anything to add to this vote now?
->
c.)
Why do you seem so eager for an Eggman lynch? (See Post #405 and Post #573)? And further, do you agree that there is an "objectively sound case" on Creature?

3.)

Creature,

In post 1379, Creature wrote:F-oh-ex, wtf, if there's an SK we're literally on a MyLo.

Mind explaining why you think this?

4.)

Eggman, could you summarize your case on Smithereens?

5.)

MarioManiac4, could you try to honestly summarize how you think you play as Town, how you think you play as scum, and then how you think you have played this game?

Additionally, what would you say you more commonly claim when you are scum? Do you tend towards claiming power roles?

Creature · Post Post #1401 (ISO) » Wed Jul 13, 2016 1:26 am

I find it very unlikely a vigilante would shoot Dwlee99 or Robbnva, therefore I believe there's an SK.

6:3:1
Mislynch
5:3:1
2 town deaths
3:3:1

And then we're kingmakers (we could still win but that'd be complicated).

petroleumjelly · Post Post #1402 (ISO) » Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:49 am

In post 1379, Creature wrote:F-oh-ex, wtf, if there's an SK we're literally on a MyLo.

In post 1401, Creature wrote:I find it very unlikely a vigilante would shoot Dwlee99 or Robbnva, therefore I believe there's an SK.

6:3:1
Mislynch
5:3:1
2 town deaths
3:3:1

And then we're kingmakers (we could still win but that'd be complicated).

Let's add some definitions. MYLO means "mislynch and lose." This is different from LYLO ("lynch or lose") in that MYLO does not

require

a correct lynch; No-Lynching may theoretically be the best option. There are some issues with your statement:

First, in the situation where there is a Serial Killer, you are assuming the opposing scumgroup is three people. It is very possible it is two people.

Second, you are assuming in the case of a mislynch today that there will be two town deaths, as opposed to potential crosskills, prevented kills, or a double-kill.

Third, you started Day Two with a vote for atm487, but then chastised F-oh-ex for placing the first vote on you because we are "literally in MYLO." There are all sorts of issues with this:

->

a.)

It takes six votes to reach a majority today. Why are you so concerned about a single vote on yourself? Even if we were in LYLO (which to be clear is much worse than MYLO), we would still be safe having two votes on a single player since even a scumgroup of three players could not force through a lynch.
->

b.)

If you're so concerned with single votes, I would think you would not also start off the day with a vote (especially before you are done 'gamesolving'). You also did not chastise Eggman for his Smithereens vote.
->

c.)

If you are concerned about

multiple

votes on yourself, why did you not chastise Dragon of the West for placing the second vote on you?
->

d.)

There is no proof we are "literally in MYLO." Even in the worst-case-scenario of 3 mafia and 1 Serial Killer, you are assuming the worst-case-scenario in nightkills. That is not how MYLO works.

~

Your exaggerated concern for MYLO is just making me think you have more information about the set-up, which implies you are scum.

What are your thoughts on Eggman?

Sméagol · Post Post #1403 (ISO) » Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:27 am

V

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Day 2 #01

DrippingGoofball [

1

]:

Eggman

Creature [

2

]:

F-oh-ex

/

Dragon of the West

Abstaining [7]:

DrippingGoofball / MarioManiac4 / petroleumjelly / Derek12 / Infinity 324 / atm487 /

Creature

There are 10 active players.
Absolute majority is

6

.
Majority has

not

been reached.

Start of day 2
Next vote count

Spoiler: Current player list

Spoiler: Days & nights

Spoiler: V/LA

Deadline is

28-07-2016 00:00:00 CEST

((expired on 2016-07-28 00:00:00)).

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Smithereens

has been replaced by

DrippingGoofball

.

A

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h

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!

DrippingGoofball

has achieved

Late to the party

- Thanks for replacing in!

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1404 (ISO) » Wed Jul 13, 2016 4:54 am

In post 1400, petroleumjelly wrote:

5.)
MarioManiac4, could you try to honestly summarize how you think you play as Town, how you think you play as scum, and then how you think you have played this game?

Additionally, what would you say you more commonly claim when you are scum? Do you tend towards claiming power roles?

I think my play as Town varies depending on the gamestate. Sometimes I just fail to get in, sometimes I chase someone looking to get out of RVS and sometimes I just chill and pick out things that are scummy. I can't really give you only one answer for that.
As for scum, I usually pick out someone to tunnel and pick on them actively for the first few days.
I think in this game, life has got through, I haven't got a foothold, and my play has been poor as a result.
As scum, I've never really been in a position where I were to claim D1 but if I were, I could claim VT or PR depending on the situation. Like, if PRs had already claimed I would claim VT, but if we had safeclaims I'd claim PR. In the majority of games in which it'd be even I would most likely follow my scumbuddies.

Dragon of the West · Post Post #1405 (ISO) » Wed Jul 13, 2016 5:19 am

In post 1049, Dwlee99 wrote:
In post 1047, Creature wrote:Dwlee99 having a bad scumgame makes me feel safer.
excuse me?

In post 1052, Dwlee99 wrote:
In post 1051, Creature wrote:Maybe not that bad, but enough to see a difference between his town and scum play.
*cough*
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=65515

My trust in Creature's sure-of-himself reads is pretty much non-existent

F-oh-ex · Post Post #1406 (ISO) » Wed Jul 13, 2016 5:27 am

Creature is just a scum who thinks if he acts obnoxious enough, it'll be a towntell.

Creature · Post Post #1407 (ISO) » Wed Jul 13, 2016 5:44 am

Did you get Smith flu?

Creature · Post Post #1408 (ISO) » Wed Jul 13, 2016 5:44 am

petroleumjelly

2 mafia members + 1 serial killer in a 13 player setup looks anti-mafia.

Creature · Post Post #1409 (ISO) » Wed Jul 13, 2016 5:51 am

Actually, forget my town read on F-oh-ex, he seems to be following an agenda now.

Creature · Post Post #1410 (ISO) » Wed Jul 13, 2016 5:52 am

If F-oh-ex is scum, it'd make DotW look pretty town.

Scum team: F-oh-ex/atm487/petroleumjelly

SK: DrippingGoofball (not posting anything? scum)

Creature · Post Post #1411 (ISO) » Wed Jul 13, 2016 5:54 am

petroleumjelly

I don't disconsider possibilities, now that I've likely got the town and scum team correctly, I wouldn't be surprised to see two town deaths.

F-oh-ex · Post Post #1412 (ISO) » Wed Jul 13, 2016 6:02 am

In post 1409, Creature wrote:Actually, forget my town read on F-oh-ex, he seems to be following an agenda now.

Since when did you townread me LMAO

Also, I've been scumreading you for a good 10 IRL days now. I dropped it to get majority lynch. Now that I go back to lynching you, you're saying I "follow an agenda"?

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1413 (ISO) » Wed Jul 13, 2016 6:03 am

petroleum makes an excellent point in #1400, by the way. now that it's very likely we have a SK, the chances of egg being both sk and mafia rise, because if there are 2 mafia, and he hasn't played a 13p before, he might not bother to find out the normal number- or he might think that when there's sk there should be two mafia.

in which case he was entirely correct. 9v3v1;
*Mafia gets lynched; 9v2v1
*Two town die; 7v2v1
*Mafia gets lynched; 5v2v1
*Two town die again; 3v1v1
*Mafia gets lynched; 3v1
*A town dies; 2v1
Just like that, without mislynching, town is in LYLO. 3maf/1sk puts the game into nightplay way too much and needs some serious townpower to counteract it even if mini normals didn't already lean towards being scumsided.

Derek12 · Post Post #1414 (ISO) » Wed Jul 13, 2016 6:46 am

In post 1410, Creature wrote:If F-oh-ex is scum, it'd make DotW look pretty town.

Scum team: F-oh-ex/atm487/petroleumjelly

SK: DrippingGoofball (not posting anything? scum)

What's your case on petroleum? I'm pretty sure you were townreading him D1.

F-oh-ex · Post Post #1415 (ISO) » Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:58 am

In post 1411, Creature wrote:
petroleumjelly

I don't disconsider possibilities, now that I've likely got the town and scum team correctly, I wouldn't be surprised to see two town deaths.

Serial Killer wouldn't want to end up in 3v3v1. SK should be aiming for scum.

DrippingGoofball · Post Post #1416 (ISO) » Wed Jul 13, 2016 10:15 am

Creature is town

DrippingGoofball · Post Post #1417 (ISO) » Wed Jul 13, 2016 10:32 am

SK-hunters are scum.

F-oh-ex · Post Post #1418 (ISO) » Wed Jul 13, 2016 10:54 am

On one hand SK will probably try to target Mafia. On the other one, eliminating him would get us rid of one NK.

Dragon of the West · Post Post #1419 (ISO) » Wed Jul 13, 2016 11:14 am

In post 1417, DrippingGoofball wrote:SK-hunters are scum.

Creature was trying to figure out who the SK was though

DrippingGoofball · Post Post #1420 (ISO) » Wed Jul 13, 2016 1:37 pm

In post 1418, F-oh-ex wrote:On one hand SK will probably try to target Mafia. On the other one, eliminating him would get us rid of one NK.

I get that, but the scum is always more worried about SKs than town.

No one is considering a vig for the second kill?

Dragon of the West · Post Post #1421 (ISO) » Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:19 pm

In post 1420, DrippingGoofball wrote:
In post 1418, F-oh-ex wrote:On one hand SK will probably try to target Mafia. On the other one, eliminating him would get us rid of one NK.
I get that, but the scum is always more worried about SKs than town.

No one is considering a vig for the second kill?

It might be, but I don't know who in this game would target Dwlee or Robb as a vig

DrippingGoofball · Post Post #1422 (ISO) » Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:59 pm

Did anyone read either as scum?

petroleumjelly · Post Post #1423 (ISO) » Wed Jul 13, 2016 6:50 pm

1.)

In post 1408, Creature wrote:
petroleumjelly

2 mafia members + 1 serial killer in a 13 player setup looks anti-mafia.

Then I don't trust your definition of balance very much. You also rather ignored all of the other reasons why even assuming there is a Serial Killer this is not "literally MYLO."

And please answer my question: what do you think of Eggman?

2.)

In post 1418, F-oh-ex wrote:On one hand SK will probably try to target Mafia. On the other one, eliminating him would get us rid of one NK.

In just about all cases we are

much

better off lynching mafia over a Serial Killer. If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask.

3.)

In post 1422, DrippingGoofball wrote:Did anyone read either as scum?

Please just read the game. While I agree with the sentiment that scum are more likely to hunt for a Serial Killer, it is similarly likely that scum would hunt for a hints at a potential Vigilante, which your questions are skirting.

Derek12 · Post Post #1424 (ISO) » Wed Jul 13, 2016 10:18 pm

In post 1410, Creature wrote:If F-oh-ex is scum, it'd make DotW look pretty town.

Could you explain this quickly?

--

I really want to ISO DoTW, Eggman, and Fo-Oh-Ex. I'll get on that tomorrow.